South Hadley,MA Phoebe Prince 15 kills self over bullying #2

[Paladine]

there is a comment on this article by Sara. She was also bullied, she says. Her account is worth a read, imo...
http://www.baltimoresun.com/news/opinion/oped/bs-ed-end-bullying-20100412,0,2452464.story

 

[elle1919]

For anyone interested I sent a message to Daisy7 and she is looking into getting a sub forum started for Phoebe so that we can all stay organized. She said she will come in and update so hold off on the doc threads and media link threads for now. Just wanted to let everyone know. : )

 

[Paladine]

my goodness! look at the pic...there's another door, I think. On the rear of the house...to the LEFT of the photo?...see that big dark door-like shape on the back of the house? Wonder if that's an entry, too...it's making sense, to me, I think...where her body MAY have been, anyways...

 

[thebear14]

I've asked in a couple of places and haven't gotten a satisfactory answer. The two best guesses I've come across are either that its delayed or not coming out because these are adult charges, the other is because of the rape charges. Since Narey's has not been released maybe it's related to being adult charges?

Any lawyers lurking?

this confuses me. if the juvenile indictments came out, why would the adult ones not come out? you would think it would be the other way around, that the charges against the juveniles would be less likely to come out. as I said before, for some reason I just don't think it's because of the stat. rape charges. I may be completely wrong on that though. it's just for the stat. rape charges all I think it would do would be confirm it or what evidence they have of it. it's not like it's going to be graphic or anything, you know? and the statutory rape charges have already been brought so automatically everyone obviously assumes she had sex with the two of them. I may be completely wrong about that, as I said, but that's just my thinking about it.

oh and didn't mean to come across as yelling at you obviously you know as much as I do about why the documents for the older three haven't been released, and that's basically nothing, just rumors. I just feel like if we found out more about the relationships with the boys we could have a bit of a clearer picture about one thing anyway.

 

[WaddupYo]

Alleged bullies likely being tutored
Updated: Monday, 12 Apr 2010, 4:09 PM EDT
Published : Monday, 12 Apr 2010, 4:09 PM EDT




expelled, suspended, OR...did they just leave?
http://www.wwlp.com/dpp/news/local/Alleged-bullies-likely-being-tutored

Well Dogface Sharon's mom pulled her out. I'm sure the others were asked to leave. Well maybe not with the way Sayer is acting. It's like he wants to cover something up.

 

[WaddupYo]

He said all 6 are no longer at SHHS. Does this confirm Austin goes to SHHS?

 

[WaddupYo]

http://www.topix.com/forum/city/south-hadley-ma/TJV2Q6M96LPA8JUTD

I think the other 3 are named in the comments, the first comment.

 

[WaddupYo]

Andy cT-posted Jan 17

http://www.topix.com/forum/city/south-hadley-ma/TED5OJRIKHNRH54LA

I work with a kid who was close to her. he has shown me provacative text messages that she sent him. When I saw the news last night, I immesiatly put 2 and 2 together. When I sAw him@ work today I asked him if he was okay and or whatever. He told me that she texted him before she took her own life, that on her walk home from school today, a car drove past jet and either the passenger and or the driver hung there heads out the wind and yelled sexual derrogatory remarks at her. According to my source.whom I know is 100% accurate. They called her a *advertiser censored*; ect. Those are the fact. It's none of my business

Another further down the page

Thank you for being one of the first ones to mention that guys are also responsible here. GUYS do exactly what you pointed out: after they have sex with a girl, they frequently toss her aside and then call HER a *advertiser censored* or a *advertiser censored*. This girl was called horrible names by a boy with whom she had sex, after his girlfriend found out about it. Instead of apologizing for his behavior, he blamed Phoebe and called her a dirty *advertiser censored*, but there is a societal expectation that men can abuse women. There is no media attention drawn to it because it is just the way we live here. When girls get mad at girls for moving in on their guy, the media calls it a "case of untouchable mean girls," and starts a witch hunt. Thank you, thank you thank you for speaking the truth and opening up people's eyes to another angle to bullying.

 

[AndyRyan]

So true. That's why I am not closed to the idea it was suicide.

But I had a thought last night, after reading that piece about county clare and their attitude about suicide. I wondered if Phoebe was Catholic or Protestant...my late Husband was Irish Catholic....and I do not know how things are in Ireland of late, although I did see a possible IRA bombing reported yesterday, I believe. Could her religion have been a reason for other difficulties in Ireland, if there we're difficulties?

I actually live in a small town about 45 miles from Co. Clare and from my experience religion wouldn't create any problems, there are a lot of Protestants living here and absolutely it doesn't create any divides in the community. Also it would really be the older (much older) generation that would (and certainly not always) still hold on to those beliefs concerning suicide, abortion, sex outside marriage etc. I also moved from the UK with my family when i was young (I think Phoebe was very young when they moved) and that was also never an issue especially as we all grew up with irish accents etc. so it wouldn't have been apparent.

Hope that helps...

 

[MaureenN]

And why is that? I want to know why their papers were not released. Some say, maybe it's because of the rape charges involving a minor. But Narey isn't charged with rape! WHY?

The released documents appear to be a request for joinder (i.e. combining) of the youthful offender indictments with the delinquency complaints. This would avoid the courts having to hear and decide on charges that are, basically, the same (or that will make the same argument, present the same evidence to be decided on), but that are brought by different agencies (or charged under different statutes).

Under 'Issue Presented', the ones released read:
Whether the Youthful Offender Indictments charging the defendant with ... has a sufficient temporal & schematic nexus {happens at the same time or place as} or shows a common course of conduct or series of criminal episodes connected together {includes the same series of events or behaviors} so as to render joinder of these youthful offender indictments with the delinquency complaints charging her with disturbance of school assembly, criminal harassment & violation of civil rights with bodily injury resulting?


So, I don't think we've seen any of the actual charges, complaints or indictments yet, for any of the defendants. We (well, I, anyway) have only seen this one type of document saying "Should we just try all of this at the same time, despite the fact that the charges & indictments may come from different places or different statutes?"

 

[Paladine]

I actually live in a small town about 45 miles from Co. Clare and from my experience religion wouldn't create any problems, there are a lot of Protestants living here and absolutely it doesn't create any divides in the community. Also it would really be the older (much older) generation that would (and certainly not always) still hold on to those beliefs concerning suicide, abortion, sex outside marriage etc. I also moved from the UK with my family when i was young (I think Phoebe was very young when they moved) and that was also never an issue especially as we all grew up with irish accents etc. so it wouldn't have been apparent.

Hope that helps...

That helps more than you know. Thank you, Andy...:blowkiss:

And it's very good to hear tensions haved lowered...people deserve to live in peace.

 

[MaureenN]

I actually live in a small town about 45 miles from Co. Clare and from my experience religion wouldn't create any problems, there are a lot of Protestants living here and absolutely it doesn't create any divides in the community. Also it would really be the older (much older) generation that would (and certainly not always) still hold on to those beliefs concerning suicide, abortion, sex outside marriage etc. I also moved from the UK with my family when i was young (I think Phoebe was very young when they moved) and that was also never an issue especially as we all grew up with irish accents etc. so it wouldn't have been apparent.

Hope that helps...

I lived in Letterkenny in Co Donegal, about 20 years ago. Even then, even being that close to the border, the 'troubles' were mostly ignored by average people going about their days. It was a very small number of older or unemployed men who ruminated about religious or political differences. And, all of the 'young people' who lived there then (when I was a young person, too!) had more liberal beliefs about divorce, sex, etc.

 

[Paladine]

Andy cT-posted Jan 17

http://www.topix.com/forum/city/south-hadley-ma/TED5OJRIKHNRH54LA

I work with a kid who was close to her. he has shown me provacative text messages that she sent him. When I saw the news last night, I immesiatly put 2 and 2 together. When I sAw him@ work today I asked him if he was okay and or whatever. He told me that she texted him before she took her own life, that on her walk home from school today, a car drove past jet and either the passenger and or the driver hung there heads out the wind and yelled sexual derrogatory remarks at her. According to my source.whom I know is 100% accurate. They called her a *advertiser censored*; ect. Those are the fact. It's none of my business

Another further down the page

Thank you for being one of the first ones to mention that guys are also responsible here. GUYS do exactly what you pointed out: after they have sex with a girl, they frequently toss her aside and then call HER a *advertiser censored* or a *advertiser censored*. This girl was called horrible names by a boy with whom she had sex, after his girlfriend found out about it. Instead of apologizing for his behavior, he blamed Phoebe and called her a dirty *advertiser censored*, but there is a societal expectation that men can abuse women. There is no media attention drawn to it because it is just the way we live here. When girls get mad at girls for moving in on their guy, the media calls it a "case of untouchable mean girls," and starts a witch hunt. Thank you, thank you thank you for speaking the truth and opening up people's eyes to another angle to bullying.

You amazing, stubborn, curious Sleuth! You FOUND it! :genie:
Now, there was an article that qouted a story strikingly similar to that topix comment. A Man who worked with a boy who had recieved texts. Same story but the guy was named, I think. It was a reputable site...but I CAN'T remember where...! If anyone does, kindly share.

ETA: Maybe even that site. The article that comment was linked to...maybe the news people from that article were contacted by him, or contacted him after that comment...a few thoughts...

 

[Laurence]

oh and didn't mean to come across as yelling at you obviously you know as much as I do about why the documents for the older three haven't been released, and that's basically nothing, just rumors. I just feel like if we found out more about the relationships with the boys we could have a bit of a clearer picture about one thing anyway.

Oh I could totally hear you yelling at me from... wherever the heck you are.

But it is confusing, because I too would have guessed that the under-age charges would have been the ones held back.

 

[Paladine]

I lived in Letterkenny in Co Donegal, about 20 years ago. Even then, even being that close to the border, the 'troubles' were mostly ignored by average people going about their days. It was a very small number of older or unemployed men who ruminated about religious or political differences. And, all of the 'young people' who lived there then (when I was a young person, too!) had more liberal beliefs about divorce, sex, etc.

This is all so interesting to me. Seems some people over here, in North America, hold more resentments than the people in Ireland. My family and my late husbands family came to Canada in the 1800's, some earlier and they brought with them their resentments. They we're handed down generation to generation. I feel it inside me even abit today, to be honest. Thanks for sharing. It's eye opening, for sure.

 

[MaureenN]

We had a small bomb set off in the department store in town (no injuries - only property damage after store was closed), back in the 80's when I was there. I remember chatting with a woman, pushing a stroller, on the street outside & asked her what she thought about it all. She said something along the lines of "Most people don't have time to think about all of that. We've got kids to feed, bills to pay, houses to care for..."

I keep that in mind, even now, when I think about the other radical/troubled areas of the world. I'm sure that, in some cases, some have the entire population divided. But, in most, I think that it's just the extremists causing trouble & everyone else is just trying to do all of the things that I try to do every day - be happy, healthy, prosper, learn & grow.

 

[stmarysmead]

http://stmarysmead.wordpress.com/

New post and some questions for the South Hadley teachers.

 

[Paladine]

He said all 6 are no longer at SHHS. Does this confirm Austin goes to SHHS?

It would, to me. But if anybody finds more confirmation, please post links...I'll keep my eye open, too...

 

[jjenny]

Interesting - except Austin didn't go to SHHS - he went to Springfield. At the moment I don't think it's clear how they met. Also, Austin's sister (or someone who is widely believed to be Austin's sister) commented on someone's facebook status the day Phoebe died that when she told him that Phoebe died he told her why she did it and started laughing.

I too thought that he was just an innocent bystander - just someone Phoebe had a fling with after her and SM broke up. However I'm beginning to think he was a pretty sucky person, as well. JMO!

Even if that did happen, the laugh could be a defense mechanism and not a sign he was happy about it. Some people laugh when they are not happy, or something went wrong. I don't know why people assume that if someone was laughing he was happy about it, maybe just the opposite.

 

[jjenny]

Well Dogface Sharon's mom pulled her out. I'm sure the others were asked to leave. Well maybe not with the way Sayer is acting. It's like he wants to cover something up.

I would think that people who are upset at bullying shouldn't be calling minor teenage girls offensive names. Otherwise I am having a really hard time believing these people are really upset at bullying.