SisterSocks
What a wild and crazy trip its been
I sure hope she will get JFJB OR turn it over to someone else...
Spade/FFJ info
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- Start date
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lannie
New Member
What is TOILET RAGE ??
sissi
Former Member
Toilet Rage
is defined by a non-parent young man as
1.suddenly without warning a mother swings her child around banging her head on a tub,twists her shirt around her neck,and shoves a stick into her vagina (this oughta teach her) as punishment for wetting a bed
2.defined by parents
a nonexitent term with no foundation in the real world
IMO JMO
is defined by a non-parent young man as
1.suddenly without warning a mother swings her child around banging her head on a tub,twists her shirt around her neck,and shoves a stick into her vagina (this oughta teach her) as punishment for wetting a bed
2.defined by parents
a nonexitent term with no foundation in the real world
IMO JMO
A
ajt400
Guest
Okay, if PR went crazy and threw JBR against the toilet/tub/whatever, or hit her with something. Wouldn't there have been blood all over the place? And if there was cleanup involved, that could have been easily detectable.
TLynn
New Member
Sissi,
Your facts are wrong on the description of "toilet rage" - which, I believe, you are citing from ST.
Your facts are wrong on the description of "toilet rage" - which, I believe, you are citing from ST.
A
ajt400
Guest
I thought ST was God. How many people here have children? How many people here's children have had problems potty training? And how many of you have killed them in a rage then staged the murder as a sex crime?
Okay, how many deaths to children have been attributed to toilet rage?
Okay, how many deaths to children have been attributed to toilet rage?
sissi
Former Member
TLynn, would you offer your definition of "toilet rage". I really have no real world experience with the term or the concept.
Thanks
IMO JMO
Thanks
IMO JMO
Ivy
Inactive
River I hope you're right that Keenan isn't convinced an intruder did it and considers the Ramseys viable suspects. Any word on how the investigation is going? Keenan promised Lin Wood she'd keep him up to date on it but wouldn't release information to the press or anyone else. Still, I thought by chance you might have heard something.
Britt
New Member
The "toilet rage" theory did not come from Steve Thomas. It came from Dr. Richard Krugman, Dean of the CU Health Sciences Center and a nationally known child abuse expert, who consulted with the police and the DA on this case.
From the FFJ/Spade notes above:
Dr. Richard Krugman, Dean of the University of Colorado Medical School, an expert first contacted for assistance in the Ramsey case by the D.A.s office, was the most adamant supporter of the finding of chronic sexual abuse. He felt that in considering the past and present injuries to the hymen that the bedwetting/soiling took on enormous significance. He believed that this homicide was an indecent [incident ?] of toilet rage and subsequent cover up. He told the group of experts and detectives about another Colorado case where both parents had been at home and both were charged. The JonBenet case is a text book example of toileting abuse rage," Krugman stated.
And from PMPT:
Krugman had occasionally seen injuries to little girls' genitals that were related to toilet training and had nothing to do with sexual abuse. In children, one had to separate sexual from physical abuse. By now the detectives had learned that at age six, JonBenét was still wetting the bed, and was asking adults to wipe her after she was done on the toilet. It was possible that the injury to her vagina was a result of punishment. p. 467 paperback
And on Burden of Proof (I posted the link previously), Krugman suggested the 'sexual' abuse might have been a cover-up for prior physical abuse in the vaginal area:
COSSACK: Doctor you made a statement which almost made it sound though that you believe that the sexual abuse was a coverup to perhaps hide the amount of physical abuse. Do you have a feel on that area?
KRUGMAN: In my view that's certainly a possibility.
Dr. Krugman (and Thomas's book) could be right... or partially right. Perhaps JonBenét was being abused by both parents in different ways.
I wonder if the question of "toileting abuse rage" relates to the dictionary being marked to the word "incest." Perhaps Patsy wanted to know if physical vaginal abuse counted as incest.
From the FFJ/Spade notes above:
Dr. Richard Krugman, Dean of the University of Colorado Medical School, an expert first contacted for assistance in the Ramsey case by the D.A.s office, was the most adamant supporter of the finding of chronic sexual abuse. He felt that in considering the past and present injuries to the hymen that the bedwetting/soiling took on enormous significance. He believed that this homicide was an indecent [incident ?] of toilet rage and subsequent cover up. He told the group of experts and detectives about another Colorado case where both parents had been at home and both were charged. The JonBenet case is a text book example of toileting abuse rage," Krugman stated.
And from PMPT:
Krugman had occasionally seen injuries to little girls' genitals that were related to toilet training and had nothing to do with sexual abuse. In children, one had to separate sexual from physical abuse. By now the detectives had learned that at age six, JonBenét was still wetting the bed, and was asking adults to wipe her after she was done on the toilet. It was possible that the injury to her vagina was a result of punishment. p. 467 paperback
And on Burden of Proof (I posted the link previously), Krugman suggested the 'sexual' abuse might have been a cover-up for prior physical abuse in the vaginal area:
COSSACK: Doctor you made a statement which almost made it sound though that you believe that the sexual abuse was a coverup to perhaps hide the amount of physical abuse. Do you have a feel on that area?
KRUGMAN: In my view that's certainly a possibility.
Dr. Krugman (and Thomas's book) could be right... or partially right. Perhaps JonBenét was being abused by both parents in different ways.
I wonder if the question of "toileting abuse rage" relates to the dictionary being marked to the word "incest." Perhaps Patsy wanted to know if physical vaginal abuse counted as incest.
sissi
Former Member
I think a child was using the dictionary for a Christmas story and needed to find the word,"incense".....it makes far more "sense" to me.
IMO
IMO
Ivy
Inactive
I don't think I've ever heard the word "incense" being used in the Christmas story, but maybe you didn't mean the biblical Christmas story. If you did, do you think a child would substitute the word incense for gold, frankincense and myrrh? I don't.
A
ajt400
Guest
Weel, there is more than one Christmas book, correct? Also including all the TV movies and shows on for Christmas, and projects that kids may do in school for the holidays....
Britt
New Member
Ivy, you took the words right out of my mouth. "Frankincense" starts with an "F"
A
ajt400
Guest
Wow, what a speller, huh? (LOL) but would a 6 year old know how to spell that?
Excellent thread! Lots of great posts going on. To quote Steve Thomas..."The DA's office gave away the store". The Ramseys lawyers had not only their prior statements, but the statements of BPD AND witnesses before their interrogations. If you re-read the NE book...you will find John quoting Fleet's statement to Lou Smit.
If I'm not mistaken, wasn't Mary Keenan involved in the murder investigation? I do remember she played some part in it.
One thing that hasn't been brought up much is Lou Smit's "intruder brought pineapple" to the Ramsey home theory. Did he say that pineapple was found in a tupperware bowl in JB's room?
If that is true...then does that explain the paring knife found on the counter outside of JonBenet's room? Was someone preparing pineapple for JonBenet outside her room? Would an INTRUDER do something like that?
If I'm not mistaken, wasn't Mary Keenan involved in the murder investigation? I do remember she played some part in it.
One thing that hasn't been brought up much is Lou Smit's "intruder brought pineapple" to the Ramsey home theory. Did he say that pineapple was found in a tupperware bowl in JB's room?
If that is true...then does that explain the paring knife found on the counter outside of JonBenet's room? Was someone preparing pineapple for JonBenet outside her room? Would an INTRUDER do something like that?
sissi
Former Member
The Christmas Story from Luke
1: 5-80
5
In the time of Herod king of Judea there was a priest named Zechariah, who belonged to the priestly division of Abijah; his wife Elizabeth was also a descendant of Aaron.
6
Both of them were upright in the sight of God, observing all the Lord's commandments and regulations blamelessly.
7
But they had no children, because Elizabeth was barren; and they were both well along in years.
8
Once when Zechariah's division was on duty and he was serving as priest before God,
9
he was chosen by lot, according to the custom of the priesthood, to go into the temple of the Lord and burn incense.
10
And when the time for the burning of incense came, all the assembled worshipers were praying outside.
11
Then an angel of the Lord appeared to him, standing at the right side of the altar of incense.
12
When Zechariah saw him, he was startled and was gripped with fear.
13
But the angel said to him: "Do not be afraid, Zechariah; your prayer has been heard. Your wife Elizabeth will bear you a son, and you are to give him the name John.
14
He will be a joy and delight to you, and many will rejoice because of his birth,
15
for he will be great in the sight of the Lord. He is never to take wine or other fermented drink, and he will be filled with the Holy Spirit even from birth.
16
Many of the people of Israel will he bring back to the Lord their God.
17
And he will go on before the Lord, in the spirit and power of Elijah, to turn the hearts of the fathers to their children and the disobedient to the wisdom of the righteous--to make ready a people prepared for the Lord."
18
Zechariah asked the angel, "How can I be sure of this? I am an old man and my wife is well along in years."
19
The angel answered, "I am Gabriel. I stand in the presence of God, and I have been sent to speak to you and to tell you this good news.
20
And now you will be silent and not able to speak until the day this happens, because you did not believe my words, which will come true at their proper time."
21
Meanwhile, the people were waiting for Zechariah and wondering why he stayed so long in the temple.
22
When he came out, he could not speak to them. They realized he had seen a vision in the temple, for he kept making signs to them but remained unable to speak.
23
When his time of service was completed, he returned home.
24
After this his wife Elizabeth became pregnant and for five months remained in seclusion.
25
"The Lord has done this for me," she said. "In these days he has shown his favor and taken away my disgrace among the people."
26
In the sixth month, God sent the angel Gabriel to Nazareth, a town in Galilee,
27
to a virgin pledged to be married to a man named Joseph, a descendant of David. The virgin's name was Mary.
28
The angel went to her and said, "Greetings, you who are highly favored! The Lord is with you."
29
Mary was greatly troubled at his words and wondered what kind of greeting this might be.
30
But the angel said to her, "Do not be afraid, Mary, you have found favor with God.
31
You will be with child and give birth to a son, and you are to give him the name Jesus.
I guess if ya ' hop to the end where Mary enters,the incense wouldn't be in the story.
IMO
1: 5-80
5
In the time of Herod king of Judea there was a priest named Zechariah, who belonged to the priestly division of Abijah; his wife Elizabeth was also a descendant of Aaron.
6
Both of them were upright in the sight of God, observing all the Lord's commandments and regulations blamelessly.
7
But they had no children, because Elizabeth was barren; and they were both well along in years.
8
Once when Zechariah's division was on duty and he was serving as priest before God,
9
he was chosen by lot, according to the custom of the priesthood, to go into the temple of the Lord and burn incense.
10
And when the time for the burning of incense came, all the assembled worshipers were praying outside.
11
Then an angel of the Lord appeared to him, standing at the right side of the altar of incense.
12
When Zechariah saw him, he was startled and was gripped with fear.
13
But the angel said to him: "Do not be afraid, Zechariah; your prayer has been heard. Your wife Elizabeth will bear you a son, and you are to give him the name John.
14
He will be a joy and delight to you, and many will rejoice because of his birth,
15
for he will be great in the sight of the Lord. He is never to take wine or other fermented drink, and he will be filled with the Holy Spirit even from birth.
16
Many of the people of Israel will he bring back to the Lord their God.
17
And he will go on before the Lord, in the spirit and power of Elijah, to turn the hearts of the fathers to their children and the disobedient to the wisdom of the righteous--to make ready a people prepared for the Lord."
18
Zechariah asked the angel, "How can I be sure of this? I am an old man and my wife is well along in years."
19
The angel answered, "I am Gabriel. I stand in the presence of God, and I have been sent to speak to you and to tell you this good news.
20
And now you will be silent and not able to speak until the day this happens, because you did not believe my words, which will come true at their proper time."
21
Meanwhile, the people were waiting for Zechariah and wondering why he stayed so long in the temple.
22
When he came out, he could not speak to them. They realized he had seen a vision in the temple, for he kept making signs to them but remained unable to speak.
23
When his time of service was completed, he returned home.
24
After this his wife Elizabeth became pregnant and for five months remained in seclusion.
25
"The Lord has done this for me," she said. "In these days he has shown his favor and taken away my disgrace among the people."
26
In the sixth month, God sent the angel Gabriel to Nazareth, a town in Galilee,
27
to a virgin pledged to be married to a man named Joseph, a descendant of David. The virgin's name was Mary.
28
The angel went to her and said, "Greetings, you who are highly favored! The Lord is with you."
29
Mary was greatly troubled at his words and wondered what kind of greeting this might be.
30
But the angel said to her, "Do not be afraid, Mary, you have found favor with God.
31
You will be with child and give birth to a son, and you are to give him the name Jesus.
I guess if ya ' hop to the end where Mary enters,the incense wouldn't be in the story.
IMO
Tricia, I believe you got it right, Burke was never out of the "umbrella" and he could never be prosecuted and I share much of the concerns others have about Burke since about 1997.
Other than that, Tricia, you haven't got my messages; I guess the messenger got lost in the cyberspace...his charm
You know where to find me, if isnt too late to save your soul, not that I care anymore about such things like souls, but many others do!
Other than that, Tricia, you haven't got my messages; I guess the messenger got lost in the cyberspace...his charm
You know where to find me, if isnt too late to save your soul, not that I care anymore about such things like souls, but many others do!
Ivy
Inactive
sissi, I see "incense" is in that particular version of Luke's Christmas story. Okay, I'm convinced now that Burke or JonBenet had looked up "incense" in order to write a Christmas story, and that's why the dictionary page was dogeared to point to "incest."