Found Deceased Spain - Esther Dingley, from UK, missing in the Pyrenees, November 2020 #2

[Cryptic]

Regarding this food thing... it is strange that Esther is happy to ask for food. It is partly explained when watching the you tube video where she talks as about being given food.. on her bike ride. She almost delights in the fact that her food needs are answered by others. It’s as if she likes to test this out ... that she can get what she needs ...

As a side note that maybe a completely irrelevant side note, the un romanticized version Chris McCandless (Into the Wild fame) apparently had a habit or philosophy of making very long vagabond trips / hikes with absolutely no preparations.

Like Esther, McCandless would plan to subsist by approaching and relying on others for food or shelter when needed. Unlike Esther, he casually resorted to theft to continue his lifestyle.

McCandless, and possibly Esther, was also "Very experienced in doing things the wrong way." as a friend of mine and former navy salvage diver would say it.

Sadly, both McCandless and Esther seem to have eventually encountered situations where weakness and fatigue from a near perpetual calorie deficit combined with avoidable risk taking, then mixed with a difficult situation compounded by a lack of equipment. Then toss in a little bad luck and the result was a disaster.

As a further side note, a simple USGS topographic map would have saved the life of McCandless. He arrived in a relatively remote (by Alaskan standards) area with a long term calorie deficit. He then got trapped by a rising river with very minimal preparations.

Yet..... shortly in one direction, the river "braided out", thus allowing crossings even when high. In the other, there is a self powered cable lift over the river. My bet is that both are shown on the USGS map.

 

[BobbleBob]

ED's life, prior to the past 6 years of travel had been highly disciplined throughout her life. This is evident by her achievements in education and sport. She describes buying their first home with DC's savings and a loan from her parents, the latter to be paid back with interest, implying how these family values had instilled a high sense of self responsibility. They had full time employment and filled spare time with various other projects requiring so many demands.
Their 6 year travels were also disciplined, with every aspect worked out in detail e.g. every penny spent was written down, food carefully planned.
During their travels she writes about challenging herself. She also commented about connecting with people, that 'giving' is pleasing, but also about a need to learn to receive from others. It's probably, spending so much time alone, she seemed a sensitive, caring person, becoming increasingly introspective, and feeling she had to learn/experiment how to connect with others, and to push herself with new challenges.
Some of the psychological issues may explain some of her less disciplined actions, but generally she seemed safety conscious and was not an inexperienced hiker. My take is that she over challenged herself by sleeping out in inappropriate conditions, needed to find more suitable shelter, lost the trail and as a consequence lost her life in a terrible accident.

From reading their blog and watching their YouTube videos I get the impression of that DC was the one organising everything and ED was more along for the ride.

Going by the first paragraph in the above quote (and it’s it my impression of her life from what I’ve read online) it seems most of her life has been organised for her - education, sport, job etc. There’s not a lot of room in her previous life style for doing things in your free time if you’re in training, study or work long hours. You get a routine and stick to it.

Looking at the YouTube video of DC and ED when they finished their Via Alpina trek (I think it was this one) they had relied on lifts from random strangers to get back to the camper, about 200km if I remember correctly.

There does seem to be an inherent reliance on other people’s help as they tour across Europe. That’s something that I wouldn’t be comfortable with myself as it would put me in a situation where I couldn’t look after myself and would be left hoping for assistance/someone to come to my aid if something small happened and then snowballed.

 

[The_Investigator]

If any of those situations were true, she coulda just hopped in her van and headed home. She didn't have to be in the mountains.

Yes, we have to ask why she kept extending the month by a couple of days, she didn't want to go back, I think the last call to DC was she wanted to hike into France, he wanted her to come back to the rental property.

 

[The_Investigator]

Yes, we have to ask why she kept extending the month by a couple of days, she didn't want to go back, I think the last call to DC was she wanted to hike into France, he wanted her to come back to the rental property.

Perhaps that's why she switched her phone off in a huff, as if to say 'yes' I can carry on hiking just you see, but unfortunately she fell into the lake, tired and hungry.

 

[Kalap]

<modsnip: Quoted post was removed>

I am interested in the fact that she only bought Chia seeds at the shop previously - and even quibbled about the price. Did she pay by card or in cash? If in cash did she pay only in small change? Chia seeds are known for lining the stomach to stave off hunger. Did she eat them regularly - did anyone see if they were mentioned in the videos!

I am just wondering if the request for food just fits into the idea that there was maybe a financial problem thereby resulting in the hunger problem.

After a long period away it would have been easy to have exceeded ones budget.Could this have been very much on her mind?

 

[sundaaaay]

This is a sad case, but also an interesting one from a websleuths point of view because theres’s a lot of information out there, especially understanding her habits and personality but also the routes through the area she went missing are well documented through photography. Come on guys, I really think we can crack this one. Where did it all go wrong...

 

[RickshawFan]

I'm struck by something that a pp said upthread (apologies for not rooting out the quote), about experience not equating to responsibility (my paraphrasing). That seems to resonate here across several aspects of this case.

The asking for food thing - Esther would probably not have been 'busted' on her habit of approaching strangers for food if it wasn't for her sad disappearance. Each person she asked might assume they were the first and only party approached for spare food. I can't quite form a crystallised opinion on this - I've hovered on the edges of climbing/mountaineering/hiking circles for years, and taken a few trips to similar regions. I have experienced a sort of camaraderie, with people of a similar mind sharing their stories and discussing routes/equipment etc. over a few drinks and food or whatever, but that's in season and pre-Covid.

I have to say that in a fair few years of that kind of thing, I have never been approached for food en route. I think Esther must know that most hikers/climbers don't do that. Perhaps she has been asked herself for provisions in the past and handed them over and enjoyed creating a 'bond' with a fellow hiker or something. Perhaps it was her way of slightly clumsily linking arms with strangers, whilst living a semi-nomadic lifestyle. But then on the heels on that thought, I immediately think that she must have realised that to do so with regularity isn't really the right thing to do and potentially impacts on the wellbeing on others.

Esther - rightly - sets great store by focusing on her emotional and physical wellbeing. To me, that seems somehow incongruous with her habit of asking other people for food rather than being responsible for her own needs. It also doesn't take into account the feelings of others - that she is putting people in the awkward (and possibly annoying) spot of sharing or withholding possibly much-needed supplies of their own. That seems out of step with what appears to be her generally nice, likeable, considerate self.

Which means that I arrive right back at the thought that she might have been under the impression that she was creating warmth and a fleeting connection with people as she encountered them. The alternative is that she was simply on the scrounge for food or was dismissive of other people's feelings and any unspoken rules about cadging other people's provisions, and neither of those possibilities seem a comfortable fit.

I also keep swinging between thinking the 'asking for food' thing is a distraction, a nothing, and a pointless excursion into imagining what someone else might have been thinking. And then thinking that it's more, a coherent part of the overall picture of how Esther went about things. And then (again) I arrive back at the thought I opened with, the resonance of experience not equaling responsibility, and how her loved ones might well cite her experience as a reason for thinking that she couldn't have just made a mistake and met with an accident, while other onlookers can see a possible pattern of a lack of responsibility coming into focus. But one borne of enthusiasm and adventure, rather than gung-ho carelessness.

Poor Esther. I believe she made a few miscalculations, met with a straightforward accident and paid the heaviest price possible.

EXCELLENT post. Welcome!

It was I with the notion that "experience does not equal responsible behavior", so you can consider your first paragraph sourced. And like you, I feel that notion is strongly in play here, at least in some fashion or other.

 

[gribb0]

I have been reading back through the text on some older insta posts. This from 30th sept gives an idea of the risks they took- again late in the day and maybe taking on conditions that were tougher than they expected

Login • Instagram

 

[gribb0]

DBM double post

 

[RickshawFan]

I am interested in the fact that she only bought Chia seeds at the shop previously - and even quibbled about the price. Did she pay by card or in cash? If in cash did she pay only in small change? Chia seeds are known for lining the stomach to stave off hunger. Did she eat them regularly - did anyone see if they were mentioned in the videos!

Snipped for focus

I can indeed imagine ED using Chia seeds for that purpose, or at least to make juices, which she was fond of.
However (some fellow posters got into the Chia seed aspect late one night last week), Chia seeds are like psyllium seeds. They create a whole lotta bulk. They might fill you up, but you would not want to be doing this before or during a hike! And on that bare mountainside, you wouldn't want a bare backside, since you'd see exposed nether parts from about 10 miles away! And there would likely be accompanying stomach cramps. I suppose it's possible a search for privacy or crippling belly pain might have contributed to an accident.

I hope searchers looked in the privy at the Refuge...

 

[RickshawFan]

On the subject of bivouacs, this is an ED bivouac with no tent (the sleeping kit is laid out already, with the tent lightly on top, presumably to keep out the wind and retain warmth). FB November 7:



This kind of thing is a big reason why I'd fear for ED's safety. In a word, it's not safe. No matter the location and the timing, that tent will blow into the wild blue yonder in no time.

 

[Hexe]

On the subject of bivouacs, this is an ED bivouac with no tent (the sleeping kit is laid out already, with the tent lightly on top, presumably to keep out the wind and retain warmth). FB November 7:

View attachment 277347

This kind of thing is a big reason why I'd fear for ED's safety. In a word, it's not safe. No matter the location and the timing, that tent will blow into the wild blue yonder in no time.

One world comes into my mind when I look at this bivouac: cold.

Another thing, IMO worth of mentioning is that Ester was seemingly very fond of so called healthy eating, chia seeds, juices, all that jazz. If her diet during that hike had limited fat amount, while being high on protein, Esther might have a hard time keeping her core temperature on appropriate levels when it was cold outside. Fat deprivation in such circumstances makes you perpetually hungry, perpetually cold and perpetually tired. And you can forget about clear thinking.

 

[RedHaus]

This is a sad case, but also an interesting one from a websleuths point of view because theres’s a lot of information out there, especially understanding her habits and personality but also the routes through the area she went missing are well documented through photography. Come on guys, I really think we can crack this one. Where did it all go wrong...

BBM

This may be premature, but perhaps its time we take a little inventory of possible answers to @sundaaaay's question, based on our near 100 pages of discussion. So let me take a stab at summarizing where we are, sparing all the data that may or may not support each possibility.

IMO these are possible answers:

1. Hiking Accident or Drowning 11/22 - instant fatality or perished from injuries before rescued, in any of the following locations:

A. Between meeting with skier on Pic de S, the summit of Pic de S, or her subsequent decent to Port de V (very small area)
B. Between Port de V and her van in Banasque if she decided to abort her adventure that day (e.g. hunger, thirst, belly ache)
C. Between Port de V and Refuge de V (very small area) at either:

i. 4:30/5:30pm if she summitted Pic de S, or
ii. 3:30/4:00pm if she did not re-summit Pic de S​

D. Between Refuge de V and Hospice de France OR Chemin de l'impératrice (depending on clockwise or anti-clockwise loop)
​

2. Hiking Accident or Drowning 11/23 or 11/24 - instant fatality or perished from injuries before rescued, in any of the following locations:

A. Between Refuge de V and Hospice de France or Chemin de l'impératrice (depending on clockwise or anti-clockwise loop)
B. Between H de F or C de L'i if she made it to either location for the night of 11/22
C. Between H de F and Bagneres du Luchon if she in fact did pursue an alternative route that the 70 year old hiker "heard" (see image below)
​

3. Perished in her Sleep due to Hypothermia while bivoacing 11/22 or 11/23, in any of the following locations:

A. Between Port de V and her van in Banasque if she decided to abort but too late to hike back to her van
B. Between Refuge de V and H de F or C de l'i (depending on clockwise or anti-clockwise loop)
C. Between H de F or C de L'i if she made it to either location for the night of 11/22
D. Between H de F and Bagneres du Luchon if she in fact did pursue an alternative route that the 70 year old hiker "heard" (see image below)
​

4. Voluntary Disappearance 11/22-11/24 (aka could still be alive), via three possible routes:

A. via road(s) out of Banasque
B. via road(s) out of H de F
C. via road(s) out of B du L
​

5. Involuntary Disappearance 11/22-24 (abduction, kidnapping, murder), likely near civilization rather than in high country, in these areas:

A. Banasque if she descended to return to her van aborting (11/22 or 23) or ending as planned (11/24) her adventure
B. Bagneres du Luchon if she in fact pursued that alternative route that the 70 year old hiker "heard"
​

OK - I put these out there from the best of my ability to assimilate everyone's thinking so far...

Is it premature to inventory possibilities like this? Are any possibilities missing? And if we're ready to digest further, which of these resonate more than others?

​

​

 

[Ruthbullock]

I’m just going to add a map to the posts so that we don’t keep seeing the inaccurate daily mail one of the two routes. Following the red path (bottom left is pic de sauvegarde- which is one way up and down). The passage de venasque is where the red path meets, with the refuge slightly further along by the lakes de boums. Chemin de l’imperatice is the dashed footpath to the left before we reach the hospice (at the top right corner)- this footpath neither heads to Luchon or back to pic de sauvegarde and aside from the daily mail picture we still don’t know 100% which if any of these paths ED took as part of her original or secondary plans, nor which direction she headed. We are in danger of the daily mail being followed as the source of her route.

 

[Sillybilly]

ADMIN WARNING:

Websleuths TOS clearly states that no social media is allowed here unless it belongs to the victim, an officially identified POI/suspect, MSM or LE, or the Admin of an official Missing Person support group.

Discussing and/or quoting comments made by friends, family or others on those pages is not allowed and such posts will be removed with members possibly experiencing a temporary or permanent loss of posting privileges.

 

[stmarysmead]

As the parent of adult “children”, I can remember several times that I heartily claimed that they “always” did this or that...until a time came when they...didn’t.

One night I called police for a welfare check on a daughter that “always” called me upon a late night return from travel abroad (and subsequent trek thru NYC) to tell me she was safely home. (She did not travel often...so this was a very infrequent mutual safety check we had agreed on )

Only that time...she didn’t.

And she was safely and soundly asleep and I was mortified.

This is why the protestations from Dan and her Mother as to how she “always” stays constantly in touch...do not ring true with the three day delay in notifying authorities to begin a search. There is no way I would have waited through three more days of no contact...after not receiving the call I expected that night.

I’m not sure they had any clear idea of where she was going...only vague generalities...because they seemed to assume that she just had no cell service when, by their own admission, cell contact was generally very good on the trek they “assume” she went on. All the more reason, to have suspected some dire circumstance.

I think it more likely that Esther’s repeated prolonging of her return, led them to assume, she was just doing one more extension and had her phone turned off so as not to be beseeched to come home. I think money was an issue and she was pushing boundaries....legal(Covid)...financial (their budget)...and emotional( her naïveté that somehow others would always be there to assist with her needs or emergencies.)

 

[The_Investigator]

She ate chia seeds all the time as a health thing in smoothies and juices, I do, it adds a bit of bulk, texture, so I don’t think she would have stomach problems as she was used to them,... probably left in the van anyway,.. they usually too with them homemade dehydrated stews, soups that they rehydrated in a cooking pot each evening, that’s what they did on the 60 odd day hike earlier in the year. Think pictures show her stove, pot and food pouches in an earlier shelter.

 

[Sillybilly]

This thread is closed for a very major cleanup.

Check back later.

 

[Sillybilly]

Almost 60 posts had to be removed due to TOS violations.

Members need to read The Rules they agreed to upon joining Websleuths.

Sleuthing the social media of a witness is against The Rules: Social Media – Facebook, Twitter, etc

All posts referencing non-approved social media have been removed along with all responses.

If you think you have a tip, do not post it on a public thread. Call it in to LE and don't discuss it here where the whole world can see it.

There is no known fact to support speculation that Esther has Aspbergers. Members are not qualified to diagnose anyone, let alone someone they have never met.

Posts disparaging Esther for her actions are not victim friendly. Please Report such posts and they will be removed.

Post responsibly and in accordance with Websleuths TOS.

Thread is open again.

 

[RickshawFan]

I think it more likely that Esther’s repeated prolonging of her return, led them to assume, she was just doing one more extension and had her phone turned off so as not to be beseeched to come home. I think money was an issue and she was pushing boundaries....legal(Covid)...financial (their budget)...and emotional( her naïveté that somehow others would always be there to assist with her needs or emergencies.)

Snipped for focus.
You are a genius. This captures a very likely psychology of the turned-off phone.