Found Deceased Spain - Esther Dingley, from UK, missing in the Pyrenees, November 2020 #3

[otto]

Well, that's a nightmarish thought. One wrong step, plunged into water, with all one's gear strapped on. You COULD of course, let it go, but it contains everything you need FOR survival. Then add icy water and exhaustion, hypothermia, compromised judgment which are suddenly in charge, when just a moment ago, you were. Nature, as we've seen, isn't forgiving.

If this is what happened to Esther, with her, died her hopes and dreams, her fears and faults.... all things we've been scrutinizing for clues to her whereabouts....

When it's far more likely that the mountain took advantage of a slip and swallowed her whole.

Wishing peace and comfort and answers for those who loved her, whether perfectly or imperfectly, most.

JMO

A woman, experienced in back country solo trips, vanished while snow shoeing on the West Coast of Canada last week. She died. One wrong decision and it becomes the last decision. It's common to hear stories like this in Canada, so there isn't much of a reaction. The sense is that they knew the risks, accepted them, and failed.

"The St. Mark's Summit hike is part of the Howe Sound Crest Trail, a 28-kilometre trail that winds through the mountaintops north of Vancouver.

The 11-kilometre hike typically takes four to five hours round-trip and leads hikers to a peak with a view of the water and islands.

Search and rescue crews found the woman in steep drainage area on Howe Sound Crest Trail, north of Vancouver"​

https://www.cbc.ca/news/canada/brit...wshower-st-marks-north-shore-rescue-1.5874655

 

[otto]

It is a 3 hour hike from the Port de Venasque to the Hospice de France (per signage). Since witnesses did not see hunters on the Spanish trails, hunters could only be on the French trails.

Hunters want to leave the mountains before dark. No hunters were at the refuge - no sign that anyone had been there. Therefore, it is highly unlikely that hunters were in the same area as Esther after 4PM. If there were hunters, they would have been closer to Hospice de France to ensure they were off the mountain before 5:30PM sunset.

Esther did not arrive at the refuge, so it's unlikely that she was alive to encounter hunters the following day.

I'm curious at what time of day Esther's partner met with hunters.

 

[stmarysmead]

It is a 3 hour hike from the Port de Venasque to the Hospice de France (per signage). Since witnesses did not see hunters on the Spanish trails, hunters could only be on the French trails.

Hunters want to leave the mountains before dark. No hunters were at the refuge - no sign that anyone had been there. Therefore, it is highly unlikely that hunters were in the same area as Esther after 4PM. If there were hunters, they would have been closer to Hospice de France to ensure they were off the mountain before 5:30PM sunset.

Esther did not arrive at the refuge, so it's unlikely that she was alive to encounter hunters the following day.

I'm curious at what time of day Esther's partner met with hunters.

I know that witnesses reported that there was no one going UP the PIc at the time they descended, but are there reports after that confirming that there were no hunters in the area between there and the Refuge as Esther descended?

Have there been confirmed reports that they were not...in the area...of the Refuge...even if they did not stay inside?

As to leaving the mountains before dark, do hunters never wild-camp over night so as to have an early morning hunt the next day before heading home?

 

[Niner]

But if shot by hunters - wouldn't some of the hikers "hear" the gun shots? Would they not echo thru the mountains?

 

[otto]

I know that witnesses reported that there was no one going up the PIc at the time they descended, but are there reports after that confirming that there were no hunters in the area as she descended?

Have there been conformed reports that they were not...in the area...of the Refuge...even if they did not stay inside?

As to leaving the mountains before dark, do hunters never wild-camp over night so as to have an early morning hunt the next day before heading home?

Esther's partner tossed out the idea that he met hunters. Where did he meet them, what time of day, where were they headed, were they on the mountain on Nov 22? Did he talk to them? How far away were they? Is he certain that they were hunters and not hikers with walking sticks?

The question should be : are there confirmed reports that hunters were on the trails on Nov 22?

 

[stmarysmead]

But if shot by hunters - wouldn't some of the hikers "hear" the gun shots? Would they not echo thru the mountains?

But...with Covid and the late time of the year for trekking...there were not the usual amount of trekkers. I have gotten the impression that the trails were pretty empty. And this was late in the afternoon.

 

[stmarysmead]

Esther's partner tossed out the idea that he met hunters. Where did he meet them, what time of day, where were they headed, were they on the mountain on Nov 22? Did he talk to them? How far away were they? Is he certain that they were hunters and not hikers with walking sticks?

The question should be : are there confirmed reports that hunters were on the trails on Nov 22?

Good point in regard to Dan’s dossier. I wish he’d provided more detail. Though I imagine, if I were searching for a missing loved one...after an intense search provided no clues...encounters with armed men, albeit legal hunters, would cause terrifying scenarios and speculations.

The articles I found about Chamois hunting DO indicate that late November was a prime time to hunt and that late in the day (and early morning) were preferable times. That’s puts Esthers disappearance right in the center of those favored conditions.

Sadly, if something like this occurred, Esthers disappearance will likely remain an eternal mystery.

 

[otto]

Good point in regard to Dan’s dossier. I wish he’d provided more detail. Though I imagine, if I were searching for a missing loved one...after an intense search provided no clues...encounters with armed men, albeit legal hunters, would cause terrifying scenarios and speculations.

The articles I found about Chamois hunting DO indicate that late November was a prime time to hunt and that late in the day (and early morning) were preferable times. That’s puts Esthers disappearance right in the center of those favored conditions.

Sadly, if something like this occurred, Esthers disappearance will likely remain an eternal mystery.

If Dan saw hunters, there's no reason not to talk to them. He's searching for a missing person, so anyone in the area could have information. Hunters are not there to shoot people, so there's no reason to fear them.

Tossing out the idea that there are hunters, without more information, is like tossing out the idea that there are bears. Fortunately, authorities put an end to "bear" speculation by announcing that all bears in the area are tagged and none were in the area where Esther was hiking.

 

[Hatty]

Indeed. Those bodies of water, right in the area where she is presumed to have gone missing, were apparently never searched before they froze. Whether accidental, a voluntary act or the act of a third party, they are the obvious place to check.

It’s interesting that in the dossier, the lakes are not mentioned much. DC mentions that the track is well defined and maintained with few places that could result in an individual being both incapacitated and invisible at the same time. The “few” places have been intensively searched. I wonder how many dicey areas there are on the path where there is a real opportunity to fall into the lake.
DC just doesn’t seem to really consider a fall into a lake.


If ED had arrived at the Refuge and gone to explore the lakes nearby, one would presume she would take off her rucksack first - but who knows...?

 

[otto]

It’s interesting that in the dossier, the lakes are not mentioned much. DC mentions that the track is well defined and maintained with few places that could result in an individual being both incapacitated and invisible at the same time. The “few” places have been intensively searched. I wonder how many dicey areas there are on the path where there is a real opportunity to fall into the lake.
DC just doesn’t seem to really consider a fall into a lake.


If ED had arrived at the Refuge and gone to explore the lakes nearby, one would presume she would take off her rucksack first - but who knows...?

My opinion is that her partner does not want to accept that she could have had an accident. An accident means that she is gone forever. Abduction by hunter means she could still be alive.

In Canada, when a hiker vanishes in the Rocky Mountains, everyone knows it was an accident. No one speculates that a hunter kidnapped or shot the hiker. I suspect that, in Spain and France, locals know that when a hiker vanishes in the Pyrenees, it was an accident. Locals have mentioned the lakes as a place where hikers vanish.

I think that because her partner has a bias of wanting Esther to be alive, his maps omit the section from the summit to the refuge, he claims that the trails are mostly 10 feet wide and safe, and omits discussion about a possible tumble down the mountain into the lake.

 

[otto]

The reason the lakes were not searched in the few days between her reported disappearance and snowy weather is most likely because SAR wanted to use their time to search for a living and possibly injured hiker. If she is in the lake, it's a body recovery that puts SAR at risk - no urgency.

 

[RedHaus]

I looked up some information about hunting in the Pyrenees. Esther happened to be trekking at the height of the chamois season, during rutting season. Advice to the hunters is to be hidden...so, if we consider this possibility, Esther might not have even seen them...maybe just the animals.

And the last couple hours of the day is prime time.

1. Use any available cover as the chamois’ best defense is its excellent eye sight. They are known for being able to spot movements as far as 800+ m / 2600 ft.
2. Time of the day: the first and last couple of hours of the day is the best moment.
3. Spend a lot of time glassing as they are quick, small and unpredictable.
4. Get higher. The chamois has the tendency to be looking downhill for danger, use this in your advantage and try to get above them.
5. Just as in any other hunting practice, try to hunt into the wind.
6. Be as fit as possible. This is a pretty rugged terrain.

The chamois hunt in Spain: best tips for your hunt - Caza Hispánica


The chamois is a high mountain species. We can find them at an altitude of around 2.000m (6,000ft) in summer and 1.000m (3,000ft) in winter and crags, rocky lands, cliffs and screes represent no challenge for the chamois. They mostly feed on the high mountain pastures, leaves, berries, green sprouts, flowers, lichens and moss, depending on the time of the year.

The rut season begins at the end of fall, when the male dilates the parietal glands and emanates a strong goat-like scent. Fights between males are not uncommon.


The chamois hunt in Spain: best tips for your hunt - Caza Hispánica

Interesting, stmarysmead. Early in our sleuthing on this case - perhaps in Thread #1 - someone introduced the idea there could be the 'freak' possibility of Esther being knocked off a trail by a chamois. Reading the information about chamois hunting makes me wonder again if this was a possibility. Perhaps a chamois was running for its life from a hunter, or if two male chamois were fighting and ED accidentally got in the fray, she might have been violently pushed off a trail and badly injured / killed.

Two more points I'll make about the hunter scenario, however ED may have gotten tangled up with a hunter (i.e. running chamois, stray bullet, defending an animal):

1) she may have been off-piste for whatever reason - to explore a waterfall, or for a bio break, or possibly bivouacing as we've discussed. Being off-piste of course would put her at greater risk of an animal or hunter encounter since the odds of an accident are much greater (closer to animal habitats / hiding spots, humans not expected).

2) hunters staying in Cabanes / Refuges could have deterred ED from staying in any intended shelter, including the Refuge de Vanesque on 22/11 perhaps. As a lone vegan female she might not prefer to stay in a small winter room with one or more hunters. For her safety from hypothermia she might have had to. But perhaps if she noticed people staying at a shelter she might have moved past to another location (in dark?) or been more inclined to bivouac - and risk hypothermia as we've discussed.

I do think it is not inconsequential that when ED was in that area it was peak chamois hunting season and male chamois were in rutting season. Did she know that? Certainly wearing dark clothing tells me that she was not aware of the hunting season. I'd have been wearing my bright orange "see me" vest over my clothes...

 

[stmarysmead]

My opinion is that her partner does not want to accept that she could have had an accident. An accident means that she is gone forever. Abduction by hunter means she could still be alive.

In Canada, when a hiker vanishes in the Rocky Mountains, everyone knows it was an accident. No one speculates that a hunter kidnapped or shot the hiker. I suspect that, in Spain and France, locals know that when a hiker vanishes in the Pyrenees, it was an accident. Locals have mentioned the lakes as a place where hikers vanish.

I think that because her partner has a bias of wanting Esther to be alive, his maps omit the section from the summit to the refuge, he claims that the trails are mostly 10 feet wide and safe, and omits discussion about a possible tumble down the mountain into the lake.

This is a very sad but sensible explanation. Thanks, Otto.

I do not believe she is alive. And IMO, the mountains or the lakes are more likely the cause than hunters, though I wouldn’t rule the latter out entirely.

I also think suicide is a strong contender for Esthers disappearance. There is quite a contrast between her private writings and Dan’s assertions that she was happy and carefree. What’s the line from that song...”What’s too painful to remember, we simply choose to forget.”

My heart goes out to him and her family because, IMO, there really is no happy-ending option available.

 

[otto]

This is a very sad but sensible explanation. Thanks, Otto.

I do not believe she is alive. And IMO, the mountains or the lakes are more likely the cause than hunters, though I wouldn’t rule the latter out entirely.

I also think suicide is a strong contender for Esther's disappearance. There is quite a contrast between her private writings and Dan’s assertions that she was happy and carefree. What’s the line from that song...”What’s too painful to remember, we simply choose to forget.”

My heart goes out to him and her family because, IMO, there really is no happy-ending option available.

I too have suicide as a possibility. That is why I would like more information about who she contacted from the summit on Nov 22. We know what she texted to her partner, but that's it. We don't know what he texted to her. Did she speak to each member of her family? I think it's significant if she spoke to each person in her immediate family - but that information is also omitted from her partner's dossier.

 

[RedHaus]

It is a 3 hour hike from the Port de Venasque to the Hospice de France (per signage). Since witnesses did not see hunters on the Spanish trails, hunters could only be on the French trails.

Hunters want to leave the mountains before dark. No hunters were at the refuge - no sign that anyone had been there. Therefore, it is highly unlikely that hunters were in the same area as Esther after 4PM. If there were hunters, they would have been closer to Hospice de France to ensure they were off the mountain before 5:30PM sunset.

Esther did not arrive at the refuge, so it's unlikely that she was alive to encounter hunters the following day.

I'm curious at what time of day Esther's partner met with hunters.

Hi otto.

I do think hunters stay in the alpine shelters overnight. Not all of course. But I posted up thread information about Cabane du Pesson (about 15 minutes from Hospice de France) and it mentions it is frequented by hunters. I also don't think we have to only focus on the night of 22/11. It is possible that ED got to Hospice de France on 23/11, where as you say, there may have been more hunters in the area, especially if she continued her 'loop' through the forests of chemin de l'impératrice.

To me it is possible ED was planning to check in next with DC by phone at about 24 hours after her last check-in (i.e. end of day on 23/11), like she did between 21-22/11 (that was a 26 hour interval without communication). She may not have felt compelled to check in the first moment she had cell service again. So whatever happened to ED - accident / suicide / hunter / voluntary disappearance, etc., - could have happened 23/11 and she could have been far from Refuge de Vanesque.

Lastly, I am not convinced no one stayed at the Refuge de Vanesque 22-24/11. I think the data is inconclusive or at least we should actively question it, as DC does (e.g. is the SARs' conclusion based on just no sign-in by ED? were sniffer dogs used with ED's clothing? was the latrine examined? were samples taken for DNA testing? could she have bivouaced outside?). So to me we should leave open the possibility that ED got to the Refuge de V, stayed there, and continued on her intended route on 23/11...

 

[RedHaus]

This is a very sad but sensible explanation. Thanks, Otto.

I do not believe she is alive. And IMO, the mountains or the lakes are more likely the cause than hunters, though I wouldn’t rule the latter out entirely.

I also think suicide is a strong contender for Esther's disappearance. There is quite a contrast between her private writings and Dan’s assertions that she was happy and carefree. What’s the line from that song...”What’s too painful to remember, we simply choose to forget.”

My heart goes out to him and her family because, IMO, there really is no happy-ending option available.

It is so very sad, isn't it? The quest for a final answer for the family is what compels me to keep coming back to this thread. Not that I think any of us will personally solve this case since so much data is missing, but perhaps we can make suggestions that DC, ED's family or the LE can pick up on and apply to their investigation.

That said, the longer time goes by, the less I think a voluntary disappearance applies. I go back to that because IMO it is likely the only way ED is still alive. And I do think if she had a 'buddy' (e.g. someone she met during the prior month, or perhaps a trusted friend she had been communicating with) she could be living under cover without having to use her credit card or phone. But given her kind nature, I'd suspect by now she would have told her family and/or DC about her new life plan.

So I am left with a fatal accident, death by hypothermia, or suicide. I applaud @Hatty for putting out her suicide theory up thread. And you and otto today are also speaking about that possibility. I have been reluctant to go there publicly to avoid harming the family. But I think its time I share the thoughts I've shared privately.

Here is why I think ED could have committed suicide sometime between 22/11 and 24/11:

1. Depression History - we know ED had a history of clinical depression and chronic fatigue syndrome. Perhaps it was not as resolved as DC and her family thought.

2. Impending Change in Lifestyle - with their six year adventure coming to a close (Brexit, DC wanting to settle down, etc.) could ED have needed an escape hatch?

3. Isolation - ED wanted to take some healthy time away from DC after 6 years of being together in a small van. But isolating from friends and family can be worrisome.

4. Food or Water Deprivation - Maybe ED was an extreme dieter and let herself become depleted. But if she was suicidal, perhaps she would not care as much as others.

5. Finding the Place and Time - With multiple trips up the same peaks and summiting late in the day (both common occurrences for ED's history) could that indicate some attempt by her to find the right place and time to die? And to do so when no one else is around like at the end of the day?

6. ED's Comments - hatty cited some fairly profound evidence. And I noticed some of ED's FB comments indicate she was happiest when she was in the mountains, completely self contained ("snail") and she found glaciers "mystical". While those could be innocent expressions of hiking thrills, maybe she wanted to be there forever.

Sorry if this causes anyone further upset, but I believe we are just interpreting the data as objectively as we can to help.

 

[stmarysmead]

Redhaus, that was surely a difficult post to write but I agree with every word. I’d like to add a few more thoughts to your excellent post.

1. Dan and Esther ‘escaped’ 6 years ago from successful careers that they believed made them sick and stressful. They have been living on rental income and odd jobs. But their blog seems to have morphed into a marketing vehicle for their books...advertising the dog books as Christmas gifts...promoting their lifestyle books on Amazon. And suddenly, just before her disappearance, they get a big break...a feature on BBC...that could lead to more interviews, more commercialization of their lifestyle...and more pressure. It’s sliding back into the very lifestyle they ran away from. Perhaps this accounted for some of the fear Esther kept expressing.

2. They seem to have given away their much loved dogs. Yes, I understand...Covid, dogs, very small quarters. But they have lived in small quarters with multiple dogs for years! Covid brought no change in that. Maybe the owner of the rental house didn’t want them on his property. But no matter what...many depressed suicidal folks give away things they love. And she seemed to take great joy from those dogs.

3. Esther knew that her return was a return to “no end in sight”quarantine. It was a return to a partner who was tiring of their nomadic life and who had, as he states in his dossier, been experiencing continuing health problems. The dogs were gone. Their business as authors and lifestyle gurus had ramped up. What would that mean that she would be required to do...what responsibilities would she need to undertake? What would these changes mean for her own health as she speaks so often of needing to self care?

 

[sundaaaay]

It’s true that the lake scenario has been a little bit dismissed in the dossier and it fits perfectly with the timeframe we know of ED going missing on the way to the refuge + nowhere to be seen, but the only reason I can’t get my head around that happening is because her bag full of hiking equipment would surely float with all the contents. We know what she was carrying and I can’t think why the bag wouldn’t make her float

 

[PeggyHenry]

I too have suicide as a possibility. That is why I would like more information about who she contacted from the summit on Nov 22. We know what she texted to her partner, but that's it. We don't know what he texted to her. Did she speak to each member of her family? I think it's significant if she spoke to each person in her immediate family - but that information is also omitted from her partner's dossier.

I do remember reading she spoke to her father at some point .. not from the Pic but not too long before that. Her Aunt mentioned this. It might be significant that she called him but of course we can’t know how frequently she spoke to him normally...
there is also the cctv report where she was described as sad and pensive by the lady in the shop. I’ve always thought how bright and happy she appeared in that last photo but that doesn’t say she wasn’t feeling bad internally.
I honestly don’t feel Esther was suicidal though but it’s just my opinion. She’d previously suffered with depression but not for a number of years. I don’t know that severe depression would allow someone to hike on a daily basis .. I’d think it would be debilitating. A possibility though.

 

[Quietey]

I agree that suicide is a very real possibility, and that this is a difficult subject to broach. Esther's posts indicate that she was a person with a very active and questioning internal dialogue going on, in contrast with the smiling carefree pictures. How well does anyone ever really know someone and what they are thinking? And people disguise their real thoughts for all kinds of understandable reasons. Again, this brings back echoes of Susan McLean. I can only see that the outcome of this case is highly likely to be a very sad one and that Esther is not coming back. This has been said before, but I hope that if she has died that it was in a place that she loved.

The outcomes in which Esther could still be be alive are if:

• abducted from the mountain, or a road (still a possibility for me given the information that has been released, although a slim one - but we don't know what LE might know)
• imprisoned - if she chose to dip into France (highly unlikely IMO)
• if she suffered loss of memory or severely disorientated (extremely unlikely though - she would have needed help by now and would have been recognised, although this could have contributed to the two possibilities above)
• voluntary disappearance - there is no evidence for this, and the possibility decreases with time. I also don't think that it was in Esther's nature to deceive the people she loved in this way.