Found Deceased Spain - Esther Dingley, from UK, missing in the Pyrenees, November 2020 #3

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Thanks both for your kind words, I’m probably an oddball as I find this thread fascinating some lots of incredible work and sleuthing from people on here.

I can see some similarities between ED and my partner - similar personalities, tries to find the good in everyone, outwardly very happy and positive, and some health issues that cause her to strive to maximise her activities and enjoyment of life when she can.

That last point might add to an explanation as to why ED was stretching out her return date, wanting to try and get the maximum time in the mountains as she didn’t know when she could return again.

One more thing that I’ve been meaning to say on this thread, and had been mentioned before by some posters, is that we never truly know someone. We can have 20 years experience of someone but still be surprised by things they do that we consider out of the ordinary or ‘out of character’ when in fact it is in their true nature, it’s just that we have never seen their true nature (or we choose to ignore it and the other questions that might raise).

I’m so sorry for your loss too Bobblebob.

You’ve hit the nail on the head about not knowing someone. I retired a few months ago as a police officer (detective). I dealt with a lot of suicides and a lot of mispers. So many times the family were taken aback by what their loved one had done. The first question they would ask me usually was “Why?”

That would be for me to dig around and attempt to find out.

Then would come the beating themselves up.

Why didn’t they talk to me? Why didn’t I realise? What could I have done?” I would always reassure people it wasn’t their fault, that the person made their own choice and that you can never know what is really going on in someone’s head. They seem fine on the surface and underneath things are often - although not always - a lot different. Human beings are complicated.

DC will be going through hell right now. He is not a suspect clearly, and I have every sympathy with him.
 
Thanks both for your kind words, I’m probably an oddball as I find this thread fascinating some lots of incredible work and sleuthing from people on here.

I can see some similarities between ED and my partner - similar personalities, tries to find the good in everyone, outwardly very happy and positive, and some health issues that cause her to strive to maximise her activities and enjoyment of life when she can.

That last point might add to an explanation as to why ED was stretching out her return date, wanting to try and get the maximum time in the mountains as she didn’t know when she could return again.

One more thing that I’ve been meaning to say on this thread, and had been mentioned before by some posters, is that we never truly know someone. We can have 20 years experience of someone but still be surprised by things they do that we consider out of the ordinary or ‘out of character’ when in fact it is in their true nature, it’s just that we have never seen their true nature (or we choose to ignore it and the other questions that might raise).

Sorry to hear your news @BobbleBob, and thank you for having the courage to share your experience with us. Many people find themselves here after suffering a loss such as a disappearance.
 
As far as I understand it, the police consider all theories are still on the table. My gut feeling is that a third party is involved in Esthers disappearance and yet I of course know it is possible Esther suffered a catastrophic accident sometime shortly after reaching the summit ( which is when GPS tracking for her ended according to reports). She may have summited in the afternoon in order to meet a friend. I know she looked in good shape as she smiled in her selfie. Apart from my own guesswork based on my overall impression from all I have read.. there are so many possibilities and I think we should feel able to discuss them all.
 
As far as I understand it, the police consider all theories are still on the table. My gut feeling is that a third party is involved in Esthers disappearance and yet I of course know it is possible Esther suffered a catastrophic accident sometime shortly after reaching the summit ( which is when GPS tracking for her ended according to reports). She may have summited in the afternoon in order to meet a friend. I know she looked in good shape as she smiled in her selfie. Apart from my own guesswork based on my overall impression from all I have read.. there are so many possibilities and I think we should feel able to discuss them all.

BBM

IMO, we complicated beings can discredit the effects our internal dialogues can have on our decisions. Depending on our personality type, we can act on intuition, facts presented, ideas of right and wrong/good and bad, or myriad combinations of those factors, at any time. Personal history of life experiences add more flavours to the mental meal we consume.

I agree ED has provided us with what appears on the surface to be honest and detailed aspects of her inner world. Yet we can have no idea what or who may have influenced choices she made on the day/s before her reported disappearance.

I agree with those who believe it's useful to explore what may have led to her decisions as we seek to understand the potential outcome of those choices.

It's also of interest, to me, how our varied personality types, and our own personal histories affect what we suggest or believe may have happened to ED, and how we respond to ideas discussed on this thread.

My bias leans towards voluntary disappearance, either for a new life or to end life. I think that's because, on the literal toss of a coin, I flew away from my country of origin, never to return. I didn't "disappear without a trace", but I did leave to begin a new life, saying goodbye to no one but my parents. I spent the last night with my partner, yet didn't mention to him I would be gone the next day.

Also, I recognize how despair over what another might view a minor and solvable dilemma can be all-consuming in its terror for someone else, particularly one who has suffered clinical depression. While we don't know if ED's depression was clinical or situational, that it occurred ten years' ago (as stated by DC) is not reason to dismiss its reoccurrence.
 
BBM

IMO, we complicated beings can discredit the effects our internal dialogues can have on our decisions. Depending on our personality type, we can act on intuition, facts presented, ideas of right and wrong/good and bad, or myriad combinations of those factors, at any time. Personal history of life experiences add more flavours to the mental meal we consume.

I agree ED has provided us with what appears on the surface to be honest and detailed aspects of her inner world. Yet we can have no idea what or who may have influenced choices she made on the day/s before her reported disappearance.

I agree with those who believe it's useful to explore what may have led to her decisions as we seek to understand the potential outcome of those choices.

It's also of interest, to me, how our varied personality types, and our own personal histories affect what we suggest or believe may have happened to ED, and how we respond to ideas discussed on this thread.

My bias leans towards voluntary disappearance, either for a new life or to end life. I think that's because, on the literal toss of a coin, I flew away from my country of origin, never to return. I didn't "disappear without a trace", but I did leave to begin a new life, saying goodbye to no one but my parents. I spent the last night with my partner, yet didn't mention to him I would be gone the next day.

Also, I recognize how despair over what another might view a minor and solvable dilemma can be all-consuming in its terror for someone else, particularly one who has suffered clinical depression. While we don't know if ED's depression was clinical or situational, that it occurred ten years' ago (as stated by DC) is not reason to dismiss its reoccurrence.


Thank you for this touching and insightful post. Beautifully expressed and so true.
I’ve long thought that when we discuss these cases, we all bring so much of our own histories to the discussion.
 
Thank you for this touching and insightful post. Beautifully expressed and so true.
I’ve long thought that when we discuss these cases, we all bring so much of our own histories to the discussion.
The whole is greater than the sum of its parts - indeed!
I read everyone’s views and posts with interest and gain a better overall perspective. I’ve learnt loads from Rickshawfan, for instance, about hiking in general and all the detailed research on the possible routes taken by Esther has been so valuable. All the posts add up to a well balanced discussion through the multiple perspectives and experience that each individual brings.
 
Exactly. Voluntarily missing does include suicide. If she was voluntarily missing and alive, she would have come forward to family and authorities.

Police have dismissed third party involvement, voluntary disappearance is still considered, accident is favoured.

"French police, meanwhile, have dismissed the possibility that a third party may have been involved in her disappearance, saying an accident is the 'favoured line of enquiry' in their investigation.

This theory was put forward by French Captain Jean-Marc Bordinaro in December, who has been leading the investigation into Ms Dingley. He told The Times that officers were unable to dismiss 'the theory of a voluntary disappearance'
Boyfriend of Briton who vanished in Pyrenees rubbishes claim she was unhappy in their relationship | Daily Mail Online

Reposting this regarding dismissed third party involvement - originally posted last Saturday.
 
Some interesting photos from the Refuge de Venasque FB page.
 

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How can we possibly judge whether her Oxford degree, awarding her superior skills in economics and management (2001), was deserved. If it was deserved, it was lived. I don't know anyone with a math science university degree in economics who sloughed if off after graduation.

Did she have a:
  • BA in Economics
  • BA in Management
  • BSc in Economics
  • BComm in Management
It sounds like you misunderstood what I was trying to say. Academic skills in those two subjects generally wouldn't apply to domestic practices. They'd apply to policy or corporate management. Those are very different from running your own life.
Many people also choose not to follow through on their degree subjects after graduation. Among the graduates I know from elite institutions, this is more common than not.
 
It sounds like you misunderstood what I was trying to say. Academic skills in those two subjects generally wouldn't apply to domestic practices. They'd apply to policy or corporate management. Those are very different from running your own life.
Many people also choose not to follow through on their degree subjects after graduation. Among the graduates I know from elite institutions, this is more common than not.

I actually believe that university degrees train the mind to approach issues and solve them with a process that stays with people for life. Learned skills are not job specific.

I don't understand why there's a desire to strip away Esther's achievements and describe her as reliant on the male chemistry major for decision making and structure. She was an accomplished intelligent woman in her own right, not a subservient woman dependent on a man for direction.
 
Some interesting photos from the Refuge de Venasque FB page.
Great photos ...
why on earth did Esther not arrive there at around 5.39 pm on 22 Nov?
If she did arrive there and it was getting dark, why didn’t she stay there overnight?
If she did stay overnight why is there no evidence?

And why no Facebook entries since 19 th Nov?
There have to be some jigsaw pieces out there that will allow everything slot into place.

Unusual and or unreasonable points:
Ascending at 3pm
Asking for fruit / fresh food e.g insufficient provisions
 
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I actually believe that university degrees train the mind to approach issues and solve them with a process that stays with people for life. Learned skills are not job specific.

I don't understand why there's a desire to strip away Esther's achievements and describe her as reliant on the male chemistry major for decision making and structure. She was an accomplished intelligent woman in her own right, not a subservient woman dependent on a man for direction.

I think there is a misunderstanding here.

I’m thinking, by way of example, of the comedic stereotype of the “absentminded professor”...a genius in his field who muddles, at times thru the simple things in daily life. In our family, we have a beloved member...a physician...with numerous advanced degrees including graduating from the most prestigious training hospital in the US. She is brilliant and acknowledged to be so in her field...but locks herself out of her own house, forgets to close the door of her car backing out of the garage.etc She is honed in like a laser on her job, but the trivial things of life, sometimes not so much.

We do chuckle about this in the family...as does she, when these things are over...but that in no way strips her of any of her amazing achievements or impacts her contributions in her field of work...nor does it imply disrespect from any of us for her achievements. Frankly, the whole family is in awe of her.

In our discussion of Esther, in the same way, we can be greatly impressed by her achievements and still examine her preparedness for her sport as well as her mental state. Why discuss her mental state...because it is Esther herself who is repeatedly referencing her fears, worries, anxieties about the future. We are only discussing what she has publicly given us to discuss...on an OPEN TO ALL blog and Instagram.

We have been looking in particular at her routine and preparedness for her solo adventures. In doing so, we have relied a lot on her own comments and her own descriptions of her feelings. Yes, there have been two articles from tabloids, but would they have been on interest if she had not laid the groundwork with her public comments?

‘And yes, questions arise about a mysterious missing woman, when we examine public comments that she herself provided to us.

Why does she seem so dependent on Dan “to get her going” to the point that he makes numerous texts of do so?

Why, why does this accomplished mature woman make numerous comments about having to rely on Dan to give her confidence?

Why so many comments that specify her fear?

How can she be perceived as anything but vulnerable when she’s tells us this HERSELF?

Aside from this groundwork of pervasive anxiety, I believe it is valuable to read what our experts have said about her preparation. Why does she seem unprepared as to whether there’s a “winter room” at her planned next stop, when she’s at a peak late in the afternoon?

Asking for food, muted colors of clothes, all have been points of concern in our discussion. If an accident happened, we hope to understand why. IMO, it’s not blaming Esther to try to understand her own words; nor is it blaming her to assess her preparedness on this trip by what verified experts would suggest.

“Save the next girl.”

How can this be blaming the victim when the victim herself provides an open public record herself? Or when experts try to understand what confluence of choices might have made her vulnerable to an accident?
 
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I think there is a misunderstanding here.

I’m thinking, by way of example, of the comedic stereotype of the “absentminded professor”...a genius in his field who muddles, at times thru the simple things in daily life. In our family, we have a beloved member...a physician...with numerous advanced degrees including graduating from the most prestigious training hospital in the US. She is brilliant and acknowledged to be so in her field...but locks herself out of her own house, forgets to close the door of her car backing out of the garage.etc She is honed in like a laser on her job, but the trivial things of life, sometimes not so much.

We do chuckle about this in the family...as does she, when these things are over...but that in no way strips her of any of her amazing achievements or impacts her contributions in her field of work...nor does it imply disrespect from any of us for her achievements. Frankly, the whole family is in awe of her.

In our discussion of Esther, in the same way, we can be greatly impressed by her achievements and still examine her preparedness for her sport as well as her mental state. Why discuss her mental state...because it is Esther herself who is repeatedly referencing her fears, worries, anxieties about the future. We are only discussing what she has publicly given us to discuss...on an OPEN TO ALL blog and Instagram.

We have been looking in particular at her routine and preparedness for her solo adventures. In doing so, we have relied a lot on her own comments and her own descriptions of her feelings. Yes, there have been two articles from tabloids, but would they have been on interest if she had not laid the groundwork with her public comments?

‘And yes, questions arise about a mysterious missing woman, when we examine public comments that she herself provided to us.

Why does she seem so dependent on Dan “to get her going” to the point that he makes numerous texts of do so?

Why, why does this accomplished mature woman make numerous comments about having to rely on Dan to give her confidence?

Why so many comments that specify her fear?

How can she be perceived as anything but vulnerable when she’s tells us this HERSELF?

Aside from this groundwork of pervasive anxiety, I believe it is valuable to read what our experts have said about her preparation. Why does she seem unprepared as to whether there’s a “winter room” at her planned next stop, when she’s at a peak late in the afternoon?

Asking for food, muted colors of clothes, all have been points of concern in our discussion. If an accident happened, we hope to understand why. IMO, it’s not blaming Esther to try to understand her own words; nor is it blaming her to assess her preparedness on this trip by what verified experts would suggest.

“Save the next girl.”

How can this be blaming the victim when the victim herself provides an open public record herself? Or when experts try to understand what confluence of choices might have made her vulnerable to an accident?

Esther has a degree in Economics and Management from Oxford, 2001. That tells me that she has advanced life skills in decision making, structure and planning. That has nothing to do with confidence in mountain climbing or mental health.

Given what you describe, my impression is that the issue is with self-care and mental health. She believed that her 18 year relationship was at a turning point, she had prior issues with depression, she had travelled alone for a month and postponed returning to her partner twice. She was prone to continuous self-reflection in the context of improving herself rather than positively focusing on her strengths. Six years of nomadic living had very likely taken toll on her.

She was alone, in a mostly deserted area, to climb a mountain where many have vanished. She may have had insufficient provisions. Witnesses remembered her because she was ascending the peak late in the day and had insufficient food for back country hiking.

What I'm saying is that she had the ability to manage her trip plan, but evidence suggests that she did not manage her hikes in the month prior to her disappearance. Perhaps her plan was to disappear in the mountains and not be easily found. Perhaps the hike to the summit on Nov 21 was a dry run.

We haven't heard from anyone who was at the cabin where she stayed on Nov 21. Was she there alone? Did too much solitude leave her in a place where the plan was to make final calls to family from the top of a mountain and then end life in a beautiful place after watching the sunset?
 
Great photos ...
why on earth did Esther not arrive there at around 5.39 pm on 22 Nov?
If she did arrive there and it was getting dark, why didn’t she stay there overnight?
If she did stay overnight why is there no evidence?

And why no Facebook entries since 19 th Nov?
There have to be some jigsaw pieces out there that will allow everything slot into place.

Unusual and or unreasonable points:
Ascending at 3pm
Asking for fruit / fresh food e.g insufficient provisions

The third snowy photo does look...to my untrained eye...like there is a gentler slope around the lake. Is that area on the left where we think the trail is however? Edited to add this photo was taken on Oct 15, 2020.
 

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The third snowy photo does look...to my untrained eye...like there is a gentler slope around the lake. Is that area on the left where we think the trail is however? Edited to add this photo was taken on Oct 15, 2020.

There are several lakes. The deep lake, the one that is a concern, is not in the photo. That's a lot of snow!

upload_2021-1-21_12-30-9.png
 
It's a difficult one isn't it.

There is so little evidence as to what on earth could have happened - a few sightings, a few phone calls, a few tabloid reports, guessing around the LBT report. All that we can do is speculate as to where she might have been and when, what she might have had with her, who else might have had contact with, what might be her usual way of doing things, and what she might be thinking. By far the most information that we have is that left by Esther herself - the wealth of information online from which, because of its honesty, brings her emotions to the forefront.

To discount her motivations and state of mind, and her relationship, would be to disregard something that might play a huge part in her disappearance - or it might not - and that would be an omission. How to do it respectfully though?

To discount some of the possibilities that have been discussed would also be an omission, but we have to respect that Websleuths doesn't allow theories of voluntary disappearance - does that stop us from including these among possibilities though?

I like this thread - I like that it's members have volunteered snippets of personal information, I too like the obvious talents and experiences of people on the thread, and the discussions. And it's thanks to Esther, if you think about it, that we are all discussing these things. I really wouldn't want the thread to be closed down, and I hope that one day there will be an outcome, sad though it is likely to be (Brighton Beach would be amazing!) Obviously we need to respect Websleuths terms, and there are times when we definitely need to remember that this is a person that we are discussing (me included - it's just so easy to get carried away with ideas).

Maybe the moderators could give us a bit of a hand and warn us when we are getting too carried away, before we overstep any marks - can they do that?
 
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