Found Deceased Spain - Esther Dingley, from UK, missing in the Pyrenees, November 2020 #3

[ZaZara]

There’s confusion over the French and Spanish handling of the case. My understanding is it’s now being investigated by the French. If they have now called it a criminal investigation that naturally indicates that there’s a third person involved, because how else could a ‘crime’ have been committed? (Unless I’m missing something...)

Snipped for brevity and BBM

You are going too fast here. A criminal investigation in France allows for the possibility that a crime may have been committed and gives the Police more options to investigate and to hear possible witnesses. There needn't be any third person involvement or person (s) of interest at the start or later in the investigation.

 

[Grouse]

Im not going to go back over every written word about this case as it would take too long, however if I come across the source again then I’ll post it here. When I read it first, to me it solved the question of why they didn’t bring dogs in to search the refuge ie SAR already knew that something had happened right there on the mountain so it was pointless. (Apparently, the search dogs were fine until they got to a certain point then got confused and went round in circles).

OK, thanks again, I will do some more searching.

 

[Onlinesleuth]

Snipped for brevity and BBM

You are going too fast here. A criminal investigation in France allows for the possibility that a crime may have been committed and gives the Police more options to investigate and to hear possible witnesses. There needn't be any third person involvement or person (s) of interest at the start or later in the investigation.

Ah, OK - I wasn’t aware of that. Thanks for clarifying...

 

[Onlinesleuth]

OK, thanks.

The bombshell you dropped IMO was in your first post about the search dogs. If it's true that the scent "stopped in a very particular place" I could only think it would have to be a place that was accessible to a vehicle. I'm pretty sure though that I read a comment from LE that sniffer dogs weren't used.

ETA: it was on page 21 of the dossier "Dan did offer to give clothes / samples to the French police so they could do a forensic search or send in sniffer dogs, but they said they didn't have that type of dog and/or it was too long afterwards."

Re what was/is said by investigators... I wouldn’t read too much into it. They could have said that/fobbed off as they had already drawn conclusions... e.g. the police are known to create diversions with suspects and with the media specifically to avoid suspects thinking they’re suspects (and therefore altering their behaviour), so they could have said they didn’t have that type of dog or it was ‘too long after’ as a fob-off because they were already positive ED hadn’t reached the refuge as the trail stopped prior.

 

[stmarysmead]

Only one dog, George, is with her parents, from at least May 16, according to FB. But she does mentioning two dogs being later “reunited”...on Nov 7....could be a second one went to her parents.

On Nov 13, she mentions she is without all the dogs “for one reason or another” and writes poignantly of missing them and the healing they bring to her. There are so many dog posts, this is clearly very difficult for Esther.

I keep coming back to the date of Nov 22. Dan posts to their blog a thank you to BBC and a copy of the article, their big break through in PR. Two days earlier they had achieved another publicity article about the dog books in the Olive Press.ES.

How strange that Esther disappears on the VERY same day that they receive such important publicity for their books.

 

[Grouse]

<snipped for focus>
Who was located where, in this case, is irrelevant as all of those ED was in contact with and are super-fit ie distance was no object as they were used to walking, cycling, running for very long periods..

Not sure how to interpret this. Is it a theory that some superfit person travelled some distance and maybe carried her off the mountain? Think I may have seen that being speculated about on another forum (where the case is being discussed in much less victim friendly fashion than is allowed on WS, and some of them are even consulting a medium!).

 

[stmarysmead]

‘One campervan, two people and five dogs, and there are no plans to end the adventure, no matter how much they miss friends, family and the weekend trips they used to take to the beaches of Northumberland and hills of the Lake District.‘

The PR article certainly gives the misleading idea that the dogs are still with them. Part of the merchandising narrative I suppose.

 

[RickshawFan]

snipped for focus

Hi RickshawFan, I thought you'd get a chuckle that deep in my (long) post you responded to, I said.... "And as RickshawFan has opined, ED could have left her "heavy pack" (was it extra heavy that day if it had all her possessions?) at the Port de Vanasque and hiked up to the summit light." [on 22/11]

Anyhow, I really appreciated your questioning the Dossier's itemization of things ED had in her pack - it got the wheels turning.

Oh, I get it. Yes, that's exactly what I meant.

 

[Onlinesleuth]

Not sure how to interpret this. Is it a theory that some superfit person travelled some distance and maybe carried her off the mountain? Think I may have seen that being speculated about on another forum (where the case is being discussed in much less victim friendly fashion than is allowed on WS, and some of them are even consulting a medium!).

I think she walked back down the mountain, rather than was carried off it (!) Everyone she wrote about that she met was super-fit and even if based hours away could still have cycled to meet her at a pre-arranged spot, or to ‘surprise! her. *I don’t believe in mediums so no relevance to anything.

 

[Onlinesleuth]

‘One campervan, two people and five dogs, and there are no plans to end the adventure, no matter how much they miss friends, family and the weekend trips they used to take to the beaches of Northumberland and hills of the Lake District.‘

The PR article certainly gives the misleading idea that the dogs are still with them. Part of the merchandising narrative I suppose.

Yes - and PR is just that ie Public Relations. They’ve made the lifestyle sound like it was carefree and ‘aspirational’ to a home-bound lockdown audience... when we know that reality couldn’t have been anything like that. Write down the facts of actually living like that in black and white, taking into consideration their finances and health issues... living nightmare.

 

[Grouse]

I think she walked back down the mountain, rather than was carried off it (!) Everyone she wrote about that she met was super-fit and even if based hours away could still have cycled to meet her at a pre-arranged spot, or to ‘surprise! her. *I don’t believe in mediums so no relevance to anything.

I was going to edit and remove the part about mediums as I agree it's totally irrelevant, but you got in too quick with the response!

ETA: The stuff about being carried off they were discussing was related to the lack of a scent. If she did walk down the mountain there would surely be a scent. I'm not convinced about this stuff with the trailing dogs.

 

[sundaaaay]

It is clear that ED has her ups and downs but I think a lot of people (I speak for myself also) enjoy being around mountains because they have mental health issues in the first place. The mountains are for me a very healing place and I think you will find a lot of nomadic people like ED go there for this reason. My point being that her being there isn’t very unusual because she wanted to clear her head and have some time apart from DC. The relationship issues were likely related to being stuck during repeated lockdowns, which ground their lifestyle to a halt. To me this is understandable.

In my opinion DC is being genuine and I’m a bit bewildered by some user’s posts, there is no evidence of my knowledge of deleted social media posts and if there is then it’s probably for a good reason. DC is as confused by what happened as we all are but I’ve been a member of Websleuths long enough to know that when someone disappears in the vicinity water, then the answer to the mystery is more than likely in the water.

 

[RickshawFan]

Only one dog, George, is with her parents, from at least May 16, according to FB. But she does mentioning two dogs being later “reunited”...on Nov 7....could be a second one went to her parents.

On Nov 13, she mentions she is without all the dogs “for one reason or another” and writes poignantly of missing them and the healing they bring to her. There are so many dog posts, this is clearly very difficult for Esther.

I keep coming back to the date of Nov 22. Dan posts to their blog a thank you to BBC and a copy of the article, their big break through in PR. Two days earlier they had achieved another publicity article about the dog books in the Olive Press.ES.

How strange that Esther disappears on the VERY same day that they receive such important publicity for their books.

I haven't been able to figure out why the couple didn't just return to England, dogs and all, since the dogs were so important, and the couple couldn't—for whatever reason— hang onto them if they stayed in France.
And with Brexit and COVID, they were going to have to hassle with decision making and paperwork about their status. I guess they hadn't navigated this yet? The couple seem to have arrived at decisions for the dogs, given the circumstances, but not for themselves, so that surprises me.

 

[sundaaaay]

Having several dogs is perhaps incompatible with a nomadic lifestyle. It’s probably acceptable when they’re puppies but as they get older they need more space. It’s also expensive for vet bills and food.

 

[Onlinesleuth]

It is clear that ED has her ups and downs but I think a lot of people (I speak for myself also) enjoy being around mountains because they have mental health issues in the first place. The mountains are for me a very healing place and I think you will find a lot of nomadic people like ED go there for this reason. My point being that her being there isn’t very unusual because she wanted to clear her head and have some time apart from DC. The relationship issues were likely related to being stuck during repeated lockdowns, which ground their lifestyle to a halt. To me this is understandable.

In my opinion DC is being genuine and I’m a bit bewildered by some user’s posts, there is no evidence of my knowledge of deleted social media posts and if there is then it’s probably for a good reason. DC is as confused by what happened as we all are but I’ve been a member of Websleuths long enough to know that when someone disappears in the vicinity water, then the answer to the mystery is more than likely in the water.

Perhaps... but DC said himself that she couldn’t have fallen into water as the paths were wide UNLESS the locals are correct and the path to the refuge is dangerously slippy and she rolled down into the lake. OR she tried to collect water from the lake before entering the refuge and fell in. But that whole scenario is nixed by the fact her trail apparently halted at a specific spot and the dogs circled around unable to find a track. To me, this suggests she retraced her steps back down the mountain. Also, she hadn’t checked the winter room - before I go ANYWHERE, I book the accommodation options. I don’t think she ever planned going to the refuge... she went back up to the same place she’d been before to meet someone, as pre-arranged, to let them see for themselves what she’d been raving about the day before, went back down the mountain with them, left in a vehicle. Didn’t let on about any of it to social media users because nobody was supposed to be out of their home due to lockdown. My theory.

 

[Onlinesleuth]

I haven't been able to figure out why the couple didn't just return to England, dogs and all, since the dogs were so important, and the couple couldn't—for whatever reason— hang onto them if they stayed in France.
And with Brexit and COVID, they were going to have to hassle with decision making and paperwork about their status. I guess they hadn't navigated this yet? The couple seem to have arrived at decisions for the dogs, given the circumstances, but not for themselves, so that surprises me.

Perhaps delaying their return until the absolute last moment... creating crisis upon crisis.

 

[Onlinesleuth]

Having several dogs is perhaps incompatible with a nomadic lifestyle. It’s probably acceptable when they’re puppies but as they get older they need more space. It’s also expensive for vet bills and food.

Exactly - one dog is expensive, lifestyle inhibiting and time consuming, never mind five.

 

[Grouse]

<snipped for focus>
I haven't been able to figure out why the couple didn't just return to England

I may be wrong, but as they were planning to apply for residence in France post-brexit I would think it would make that easier to do by staying there. Probably harder to get back in once you leave?

 

[sundaaaay]

Perhaps... but DC said himself that she couldn’t have fallen into water as the paths were wide UNLESS the locals are correct and the path to the refuge is dangerously slippy and she rolled down into the lake. OR she tried to collect water from the lake before entering the refuge and fell in. But that whole scenario is nixed by the fact her trail apparently halted at a specific spot and the dogs circled around unable to find a track. To me, this suggests she retraced her steps back down the mountain. Also, she hadn’t checked the winter room - before I go ANYWHERE, I book the accommodation options. I don’t think she ever planned going to the refuge... she went back up to the same place she’d been before to meet someone, as pre-arranged, to let them see for themselves what she’d been raving about the day before, went back down the mountain with them, left in a vehicle. Didn’t let on about any of it to social media users because nobody was supposed to be out of their home due to lockdown. My theory.

I believe she fell in somewhere on one of the lakes Rocky edges that evening or the following morning as wet patches iced over in the freezing temperatures. She may have went off piste, been taking a photo at the lakes edge, we will probably never know. Falling into water at that temperature with a heavy bag, alone, is extremely dangerous. I think the most likely piece of evidence that will be found is one of her walking poles assuming she was using them.

 

[Onlinesleuth]

A charity is dealing with the public relations

No, correction - the LBT charity isn’t and wasn’t dealing with public relations for the books and BBC feature prior to ED’s disappearance. The LBT is dealing only with press ENQUIRIES regarding the disappearance of ED - a totally separate exercise.