Found Deceased Spain - Esther Dingley, from UK, missing in the Pyrenees, November 2020 #6

[Ruthbullock]

I think it's rare that anyone in authority looks to social media for investigative purposes. I do know that this site was watched 12-15 years ago when official information regarding a murder was released without authorization. I know that resulted in a job loss. I think legal teams sometimes watch WS court discussions to gauge their arguments. Hannah Graham's murder was solved via social media - where an astute observer (not WS) noticed the suspect double back to approach Hannah - that was something missed by investigators. WS has been mentioned by media in the context of missing persons, sometimes simply because we quickly zero in on where, when and so on. There's a lot to scroll through to on a site like this to find a relevant clue or out of the box idea. I think media might look at these discussions, but doubt investigators do.

We all need a hobby though and for some this forum will be a busmans holiday- so whilst officially they may not scout it, in their own time I’m sure some do follow cases, not even necessarily their own.

 

[Grouse]

Sunday night he’d have been fine as he wasn’t expecting to hear from her. I’ll bet he didn’t sleep well on Monday night, he would have been fretting by then. But… not knowing the area and phone signal coverage, while being all too aware of the kerfuffle caused by calling out mountain rescue, at night, during lockdown, I can kind of see why he’d have left it until the following day. I am sure he regrets that now and always will

Of course, we don’t know when the alarm was officially raised (there is a discrepancy in reporting) but I’d imagine there was a flurry of calls and messages to Esthers parents / friends, and frantic attempts to track her phone before finally making the emergency call.

DC did say later that, after he had checked out the area and discovered to his surprise how good the signal was in many areas on the route, that he would have raised the alarm earlier if he had known that. He had been told by Esther that it was poor, and she'd gone a day previously with not much contact as well. No doubt he will have been fretting still.

Nut regardless of whether it was 24th or 25th, I really cannot see a reason for the intense focus this angle is getting unless it is in to some way look for a reason to apportion blame. Hindsight is a wonderful thing but it won't bring her back sadly.

 

[Ruthbullock]

DC did say later that, after he had checked out the area and discovered to his surprise how good the signal was in many areas on the route, that he would have raised the alarm earlier if he had known that. He had been told by Esther that it was poor, and she'd gone a day previously with not much contact as well. No doubt he will have been fretting still.

Nut regardless of whether it was 24th or 25th, I really cannot see a reason for the intense focus this angle is getting unless it is in to some way look for a reason to apportion blame. Hindsight is a wonderful thing but it won't bring her back sadly.

I think your first paragraph sums up why it is a point for discussion. If the phone signal was good- ED will have also know that and at some point has travelled for reasons still unknown without making contact

 

[CoverMeCagney]

Yes, I see your point and am inclined to agree. What a horrendous situation

Horrendous indeed. The rising panic is palpable and I had the misfortune to feel it many years ago, when a friend was in a car crash on his way to my house. There were a wide range of emotions before I knew - annoyance that he was late as per bloody usual, mild concern, frustration, then worry turning to sheer panic over the course of the night. Paged him, rang his landline repeatedly and tried other friends, even rang the police and hospitals - no joy. I finally found out at 1am when I thought sod it and rang his parents house as I needed to know he was ok; he wasn’t. He had died instantly in that crash, hours earlier. Ironically, for once in his life he’d have been bang on time if he hadn’t.

So.. I am inclined to think Dan went through a similar range of emotions before raising the alarm, knowing the huge efforts SAR would embark on to find her. Helicopters, rangers, police etc, all risking their lives to help him find Esther at a time when she probably should have been safely locked down like everyone else. You try to justify your fear because the final step is a big one to take and you still hope you’re being daft and it’ll turn out fine. Dan will always wonder if an earlier call could have saved her, and honestly, if that’s the scenario my heart goes out to him.

 

[CoverMeCagney]

I think your first paragraph sums up why it is a point for discussion. If the phone signal was good- ED will have also know that and at some point has travelled for reasons still unknown without making contact

And I think she would have made contact if she could have, which does suggest whatever happened, happened before the morning of 23rd when she should have picked up a phone signal.

 

[otto]

DC did say later that, after he had checked out the area and discovered to his surprise how good the signal was in many areas on the route, that he would have raised the alarm earlier if he had known that. He had been told by Esther that it was poor, and she'd gone a day previously with not much contact as well. No doubt he will have been fretting still.

Nut regardless of whether it was 24th or 25th, I really cannot see a reason for the intense focus this angle is getting unless it is in to some way look for a reason to apportion blame. Hindsight is a wonderful thing but it won't bring her back sadly.

Given that last contact was Nov 22, it was very likely too late already by the 24th.

 

[Ruthbullock]

And I think she would have made contact if she could have, which does suggest whatever happened, happened before the morning of 23rd when she should have picked up a phone signal.

Completely agree

 

[RickshawFan]

The cops would be able to see her GPS trace via her service provider if she were in airplane mode, surely? According to the dossier, she didn't have a compass.

Maybe GPS doesn't work on a phone if it can't lock onto satellites? AFAIK GPS can get quite dicy in the mountains because of terrain interference.

 

[Grouse]

I think your first paragraph sums up why it is a point for discussion. If the phone signal was good- ED will have also know that and at some point has travelled for reasons still unknown without making contact

No, I don't see how she could possibly have known the signal was good in the area that he was talking about, just beyond Refuge de Venasque on the loop, and where she hadn't at that point visited. It was poor by all accounts in the area she was prior to reaching the top of the Pic on 22nd.

ETA: this is assuming of course that the signal would have been the same on DC's phone as ED's, I don't know if they had the same provider or not, and even if they did individual phones can vary IME.

 

[RickshawFan]

There is a book of the name! Is there a serious reference here, or is that what you mean?

The post I was referencing said something in the vein of "no one kills people on mountain tops". I immediately jumped to "Incas", who evidently did that as a regular thing. So, yes, Machu Picchu.
But no worries, it will head us off tangent by a universe if we continue this line.

 

[RickshawFan]

As newbie, I've been impressed by some of the knowledge on here, especially on the issue of likely routes/location. Do you think the authorities ever take a look on here? While SAR etc are the undoubted experts, someone thinking outside the box could just provide the vital clue. In fact has Websleuths ever been actively involved in a case?

Yes, I have been involved in a case on WS where help was actually REQUESTED by LE.

 

[Grouse]

And I think she would have made contact if she could have, which does suggest whatever happened, happened before the morning of 23rd when she should have picked up a phone signal.

No, I certainly don't see a reason to assume she was avoiding making contact with her family either. I posted further up a theory that it might have happened a bit later, maybe the afternoon of 23rd.

 

[Grouse]

You can consult whatever you like, no one at WS is stopping you from doing that.

Yes, my understanding is that SM of victims and POIs can be consulted/quoted but that of family members and witnesses is off bounds.

 

[OEJ-JEO]

I'm sure it's been suggested before, but a minor fall that damaged Esther's phone could have rendered her incommunicado and (if she had no conventional compass) compromised her ability to navigate. It's quite possible she spent the 23rd with a damaged phone, seeing no other hikers on the (locked-down) French side of the mountains, before coming to grief.

 

[Grouse]

Snipped for focus.
I thought they owned a house. But they were renting?

They did own a 4 bedroom house, they were renting it out to students. In the UK at that time it was a popular thing to buy property ( "Buy To Let" mortgage) as an investment after faith was lost in the stock market after the 2008 crash.

 

[Ruthbullock]

No, I don't see how she could possibly have known the signal was good in the area that he was talking about, just beyond Refuge de Venasque on the loop, and where she hadn't at that point visited. It was poor by all accounts in the area she was prior to reaching the top of the Pic on 22nd.

ETA: this is assuming of course that the signal would have been the same on DC's phone as ED's, I don't know if they had the same provider or not, and even if they did individual phones can vary IME.

They had the same phone and provider

 

[Steve13]

I think it's rare that anyone in authority looks to social media for investigative purposes. I do know that this site was watched 12-15 years ago when official information regarding a murder was released without authorization. I know that resulted in a job loss. I think legal teams sometimes watch WS court discussions to gauge their arguments. Hannah Graham's murder was solved via social media - where an astute observer (not WS) noticed the suspect double back to approach Hannah - that was something missed by investigators. WS has been mentioned by media in the context of missing persons, sometimes simply because we quickly zero in on where, when and so on. There's a lot to scroll through to on a site like this to find a relevant clue or out of the box idea. I think media might look at these discussions, but doubt investigators do.

Hi, Otto. Here's people in authority looking at social media for investigative purposes. As I understand it, it's one of the biggest stories in the UK at the moment. The simple and unavoidable fact is that investigators today often spend arguably a majority of their time; 'looking at social media'. I learn from this site, because there are extraordinarily capable people here. Top tip? Read and learn.

 

[Grouse]

Hi, Otto. Here's people in authority looking at social media for investigative purposes. As I understand it, it's one of the biggest stories in the UK at the moment. The simple and unavoidable fact is that investigators today often spend arguably a majority of their time; 'looking at social media'. I learn from this site, because there are extraordinarily capable people here. Top tip? Read and learn.

That's a bit different to what Otto is talking about to be fair - that is crimes committed ON social media, where else they gonna look?

 

[RickshawFan]

Yes, my understanding is that SM of victims and POIs can be consulted/quoted but that of family members and witnesses is off bounds.

Yes, that’s my understanding, too. DC’s shared blog with ED would be off limits on WS, because DC is a victim, witness, and family.

 

[otto]

Hi, Otto. Here's people in authority looking at social media for investigative purposes. As I understand it, it's one of the biggest stories in the UK at the moment. The simple and unavoidable fact is that investigators today often spend arguably a majority of their time; 'looking at social media'. I learn from this site, because there are extraordinarily capable people here. Top tip? Read and learn.

It's one thing for cyber crime investigators to look at social media for evidence of a crime, something entirely different for investigators to look at forums for ideas about what to investigate.