Found Deceased Spain - Esther Dingley, from UK, missing in the Pyrenees, November 2020

[ZaZara]

Sorry folks, I apologise for this and no offence is intended. I hold an extreme, bizarre & irrational view that on the evening of Sunday, 22 Nov 2020, this missing person was met with a familiar face and crossed the Spain / France border with them. I believe this missing person is a victim and is not complicit in any act to conceal her whereabouts.

Can you explain why you think your view is extreme, bizarre and irrational?

 

[PeggyHenry]

Sorry folks, I apologise for this and no offence is intended. I hold an extreme, bizarre & irrational view that on the evening of Sunday, 22 Nov 2020, this missing person was met with a familiar face and crossed the Spain / France border with them. I believe this missing person is a victim and is not complicit in any act to conceal her whereabouts.

I can understand why you think this. It does seem to be an option that fits the scenario.

 

[Normal Norm]

... There's also confusion about whether the grocery store dispute was before or after her hike...

The Daily Mail quotes the local English teacher who came to Esther's assistance as saying "We didn’t have a long chat because I was on my way to work ...". That makes it more likely that the grocery store dispute was before her hike, in my view. The police will know with some accuracy when the incident took place, even if there was no time-stamp on the video footage.

ETA: For reasons explained by Sjm_qc below, I now think that the incident took place after her hike.

 

[Kike76]

I think on the 19th she she wasn’t up Pic de Sauvegarde at all but instead another mountain on the north side of the valley in which Benasque is situated. On her 19th post she reports looking at the France side (of the border) and also reports going up a 2550m mountain, which is clearly not Sauvegarde (different elevation). Looking up pics of that height in the area you find Agujas de Perramó (2.550 m.) that is in the north side of the valley. To get there from Benasque I imagine you would head up the valley north east from Benasque and then at some point head up to the left (roughly north) up towards the Agujas (=needles in Spanish).
It seems to me like from her posts she was planning to head further up the valley after the Agujas de Perramo in the Sauvegarde direction but came back down with a hiker due to poor weather (back to base at Benasque via a lift) and then when she headed up on 22nd (probably by foot from Benasque where her campervan was) she would have walked all of the way up valley to the bottom of Sauvegarde which is why she started ascending late in the day.

That is my 2 pennies worth !

 

[ZaZara]

The Daily Mail quotes the local English teacher who came to Esther's assistance as saying "We didn’t have a long chat because I was on my way to work ...". That makes it more likely that the grocery store dispute was before her hike, in my view. The police will know with some accuracy when the incident took place, even if there was no time-stamp on the video footage.

I watched the video and tried to find a date on it. Could not find the date, nor the time.
Teacher may have been on her way to work in the afternoon too, for sessions between 16.00 hrs and 20.00 hrs, it all depends on the schedule and the type of school.

Esther does look a bit off in the images, but then who did ever look good on cctv? (I hate it when I spot myself.)
She could have been tired after a walk, or not quite awake because she needed her morning cofffee. I think the shop assistant handled it well.

 

[Sjm_qc]

It’s been mentioned previously, but it may have got lost along the way: Esther’s posts and updates about her travels/hikes are all posted on both Instagram and Facebook, and these posts are what we and the media have been using to establish a timeline of sorts.

The Facebook and Instagram accounts are public. I.e. one does not need an account to view them oneself. The account name on IG is “estheranddan”, on FB “Esther and Dan”.

The posts are date stamped by IG & FB. For those unfamiliar with these services, you can’t “fiddle” posts to pre-date them.

Esther doesn’t always géo-tag her posts (possibly, and sensibly, for security reasons), but one can work out a rough idea of the areas she’s been in from photos & descriptions.

Edited because formatting was wacky.

 

[Sjm_qc]

I watched the video and tried to find a date on it. Could not find the date, nor the time.
Teacher may have been on her way to work in the afternoon too, for sessions between 16.00 hrs and 20.00 hrs, it all depends on the schedule and the type of school.

Esther does look a bit off in the images, but then who did ever look good on cctv? (I hate it when I spot myself.)
She could have been tired after a walk, or not quite awake because she needed her morning cofffee. I think the shop assistant handled it well.

IMO, even with the lack of time stamp, which LE will of course be able to ascertain, this would be *after* her hike, as from what I glean from her own postings on IG, she had been on a multi-day hike ending with the lift back to Benasque that day (19th). She mentions that it was around 2pm when she accepted the lift back.

 

[Normal Norm]

... this would be *after* her hike, as from what I glean from her own postings on IG, she had been on a multi-day hike ending with the lift back to Benasque that day (19th). She mentions that it was around 2pm when she accepted the lift back.

Yes, you are right.

 

[Sjm_qc]

Bringing my own post about the timeline forward after cross-referencing IG & FB posts & updating it:

November 17th
- Leaves reffugio de Angel Orus (IG/FB & media interview with refuge manager/owner)

- Plans to hike a 2850m col, but turns back because the snow was to deep for the equipment she had with her and possibly camps out or goes back to reffugio de Angel.


November 18th
- Another day of hiking on a section of the GR11.2, sleeps at Cabana Santa Ana.


November 19th
- Hikes 2550m mountain, intending to camp/stay in a caban for another night. Weather is not great (rain and wind).

- Reaches summit, meets nice hiker (first person she’s seen in 2 days), who takes the (full length) pictures of her at the summit (on *her* phone) & offers her a lift either further up the valley or back the her camper in Benasque. She accepts lift back to camper because of weather.

- CCTV from Benasque supermarket (source Daily Mail)

November 20th
- no info


November 21st
- Sets off on hike again, beautiful weather and views of pic Aneto and Bagnieres de Luchon. Takes several photos including selfies.

November 21st or 22nd
- Seen by same woman from supermarket doing yoga by her camper at the carpark in Benasques

November 22nd
- speaks to father by phone.
- Speaks to D at some point.
- Seen by Olympic skier witness around 3pm on the trail ascending Salvaguardia.
- Sends selfie to D around 4 pm.

 

[Grouse]

Were the photos were altered? - No, the image the camera takes is a reversal of the actual true scene. Many people have commented on the "unnatural" look of these poses & gone into overtime wondering if they had been photoshopped etc.
Reverse these images to get the proper view.

Yes, agree. I was one of the ones that thought the ones from 19th looked a bit different but have since changed my mind. The reversal of the images also seemed a bit odd to me initially, but I have since learned that this is common in cameras that are in selfie mode so that the camera acts like a mirror when the shot is being composed.

 

[Grouse]

Bringing my own post about the timeline forward after cross-referencing IG & FB posts & updating it:

<snipped for focus>

That's the best timeline on here I think so far. Some of the gaps can be filled from Instagram I think (eg. 20th Nov, pretty sure I saw that on there). Esther posted on IG every day , and on FB nearly every day. I might have a look myself as well later.

<edited to remove too many repetitions of "I think">

 

[patCee]

My thoughts, too, regarding the style of posts. She also doesn’t mention the guy’s name, which is at odds with her usual way of describing people she and Dan met on their travels, particularly people who helped them.

Not sure re the style of posts, but if she spent time with the man descending and then accepted a lift to her van. In view of your comment that ED described people she/they met is it odd that she doesn't do so with the mystery hiker. Also no photo of him, or did he decline.

 

[Sjm_qc]

<snipped for focus>

That's the best timeline on here I think so far. Some of the gaps can be filled from Instagram I think (eg. 20th Nov, pretty sure I saw that on there). Esther posted on IG every day , and on FB nearly every day. I might have a look myself as well later.

<edited to remove too many repetitions of "I think">

Please add anything you find - I can’t see any posts from Esther in Spain on 20th, but I’m slightly cross-eyed from cross-referencing IG & FB & it’s very early here & I need more coffee .

 

[Grouse]

Not sure re the style of posts, but if she spent time with the man descending and then accepted a lift to her van. In view of your comment that ED described people she/they met is it odd that she doesn't do so with the mystery hiker. Also no photo of him, or did he decline.

Not sure that is totally inconsistent style - on one of the other treks she mentioned a "new friend". Although on that occasion there was a picture of that girl (sat in front of the fire in a refuge) she didn't post any further details about that person.

 

[Grouse]

Please add anything you find - I can’t see any posts from Esther in Spain on 20th, but I’m slightly cross-eyed from cross-referencing IG & FB & it’s very early here & I need more coffee .

Sorry, just had a look and you're right, nothing from 20th on IG. Must have also been caffeine deficient when I looked

 

[thelesis]

The posts are date stamped by IG & FB. For those unfamiliar with these services, you can’t “fiddle” posts to pre-date them.

This is incorrect. Facebook Pages (so not a personal profile) have the ability to backdate and schedule posts. It appears their FB account is set up as a page (you can tell because it asks you to like the page instead of adding as a friend). Facebook help page about it: How do I schedule a post and manage scheduled posts for my Facebook Page? | Facebook Help Center | Facebook

 

[Ruthbullock]

This is incorrect. Facebook Pages (so not a personal profile) have the ability to backdate and schedule posts. It appears their FB account is set up as a page (you can tell because it asks you to like the page instead of adding as a friend). Facebook help page about it: How do I schedule a post and manage scheduled posts for my Facebook Page? | Facebook Help Center | Facebook

You beat me to it, although not sure about IG though as I don’t use it.

 

[Sjm_qc]

This is incorrect. Facebook Pages (so not a personal profile) have the ability to backdate and schedule posts. It appears their FB account is set up as a page (you can tell because it asks you to like the page instead of adding as a friend). Facebook help page about it: How do I schedule a post and manage scheduled posts for my Facebook Page? | Facebook Help Center | Facebook

You beat me to it, although not sure about IG though as I don’t use it.

I stand corrected, partially.

I’ll rephrase the point I was trying to make tactfully, while attempting to remain within WS TOS:

Is there a *valid* reason why people are speculating about the dates (19th) some of Esther’s posts/photos were/may have been uploaded to IG & FB when there is LE confirmation that she was seen alive and in person after the date (19th) which seems to be causing “controversy”?

I.e. Is there any evidence admissible according to WS standards that dates of postings may have been manipulated to pre-date them?

 

[JosieJo]

I suppose evidence aside its worth remembering that postings on social media are not neccesarily a confirmed timeline untill data analysed by LE

 

[ZaZara]

I stand corrected, partially.

I’ll rephrase the point I was trying to make tactfully, while attempting to remain within WS TOS:

Is there a *valid* reason why people are speculating about the dates (19th) some of Esther’s posts/photos were/may have been uploaded to IG & FB when there is LE confirmation that she was seen alive and in person after the date (19th) which seems to be causing “controversy”?

I.e. Is there any evidence admissible according to WS standards that dates of postings may have been manipulated to pre-date them?

I understand the idea of scheduling your posts, but as far as I am aware you cannot schedule the replies or likes from random strangers? Let alone pre-date them? Would be strange if you could, and incomprehensible to the posters.