Found Deceased Spain - Esther Dingley, from UK, missing in the Pyrenees, November 2020

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Amonet said:
I've never hiked, but I would think it would also be common to ask someone to take a photo of you when you reach the peak you were aiming for, so I don't see anything odd about that.

I am curious what the end of the trip was going to be? Was it supposed to be a circular route ending up back with the camper van so that she could drive back to Gascony from there?
Click to expand...
BBM It's been reported that way.

Specialist teams search the Pyrenees for missing British hiker
Mountain rescue teams and two helicopters scoured the area in the central Pyrenees where Esther Dingley, 37, went missing during a circular trek across the French and Spanish border.
 
Vaccine said:
I had assumed the photo was of her. But as you say, I've not seen any pictures of her in glasses. I had assumed it was pretty rare for lone women to be out hiking at the moment.

Refuges are classically available for any walkers male or female. Though in the past I imagine they were more commonly used by men.

In many of her posts she discusses overcoming her fear and learning to be braver. I'm sad that actually this may have put her at more risk as she was on her own in isolated conditions.
Click to expand...

Like you I saw some of her posts about overcoming fears, and I think she mentioned sleeping out on her own was one of those fears, but that she was trying to overcome it.

Not speaking from experience but men or couples I would imagine would be more common in those sort of places. Given how remote they are it seems a bit risky to me for a lone female, but I'm maybe a bit risk averse on these things as a (female) friend of my wife's was murdered in Asia on a solo backpacking trip about 20 years ago, and a few years ago I met a chap whose wife had been murdered in South America, also on a solo backpacking trip.
 
Grouse said:
Like you I saw some of her posts about overcoming fears, and I think she mentioned sleeping out on her own was one of those fears, but that she was trying to overcome it.

Not speaking from experience but men or couples I would imagine would be more common in those sort of places. Given how remote they are it seems a bit risky to me for a lone female, but I'm maybe a bit risk averse on these things as a (female) friend of my wife's was murdered in Asia on a solo backpacking trip about 20 years ago, and a few years ago I met a chap whose wife had been murdered in South America, also on a solo backpacking trip.
Click to expand...

I’m sorry to hear this but not surprised. I used to do quite a lot of solo backpacking in my early to mid twenties. After one close shave too many, I don’t do it any more. It’s too risky as a lone female.
 
Thinking about the timeline of her disappearance with regards to the posts on their shared Facebook page. Dan published his first alert that she was missing on the 28th saying that she had not been heard from for 6 days. This takes us back to the 22nd - when she sent him the photo at Pic Sauvegarde and they excitedly discussed seeing each other again in a few days time via Whats App. The Daily Mail reported she was due back at the farm in Gascony on 25th. Gascony is on the order with Spain so potentially only 3-5 hours drive away depending on where the farm is located.

When you look at what she was posting on the Shared Facebook she last posted from the Pyrenees on the 19th. The day she met the male hiker. The posts that came after that were about their dogs and the books they were publishing which could have been posted by Dan. She made no more posts about her hiking after the 19th.

So here is my brief timeline - it may or may not be precisely accurate depending on news sources accuracy:

Nov 19th - Met male hiker - no place mentioned in the post, last hiking post

Nov 22nd - spoke to Dan via Whats App and sent picture at Pic Sauvegarde

Nov 23rd - due to walk to Refuge Venasque?

Nov 25th - due to return home

Nov 28th - Dan reported on social media that she was missing and not heard from for 6 days

So there are some gaps:
- what was she doing from the 19th - 22nd - she didn't post on social media any pictures about her hiking despite having done it very frequently before - everyday in fact
- what day was she reported missing to the authorities?
 
I am still a bit confused by her itinerary. She set out from Spain on Saturday and was seen on Pic du Sauvegarde on Sunday but was only expected back on Wednesday. She was planning on spending the night at a refuge on Sunday her partner said but where did she stay on the Saturday night? That wasn’t mentioned. And the Gendarmes des Haute Montagnes have said that the refuges on the itinerary appear to not have been used. Even on the Saturday?

In any case the refuges are working on both a modified winter and modified covid schedule. They have opted to remain open to provide basic shelter but there are rules in place that hikers must bring their own cookware, bedding, masks, sanitizers etc . and check in and out by written log book. Was Esther really lugging all this stuff around for a possible three night stay at various refuges?

Yes it’s the Pyrenees but these are pretty straightforward hikes. The route that I have seen from Port de la Glere to Port de Benasque can easily be done in under two days.
I guess her plan was to circle back to Spain and pick up her parked van and then drive back into France by Wednesday?
Like I said previously, my family is in the Pyrenees and the entire area is under a strict code red lockdown. My MiL usually does her own two hour walks around the mountain and countryside almost daily and has been unable to do so. Even going out for groceries she has to carry her exemption certificate. People have been very respectful about the rules in place. This isn’t like some places in North America for example where everything is open and people are flouting the public gatherings and masks rule. Esther and Dan have lived there for two and a half years - they are residents of France and should be keenly aware of these restrictions. This isn’t just another November hiking season - even if normally the season ends in September. I’m surprised that he encouraged her to partake in a multi day, overnight hike knowing the rules and restrictions in place. I get that confinement has been tough on everyone and that this struggle may play a role in her actions.
I sincerely hope that this young woman is ok and will be found soon.
 
Vaccine said:
Thinking about the timeline of her disappearance with regards to the posts on their shared Facebook page. Dan published his first alert that she was missing on the 28th saying that she had not been heard from for 6 days. This takes us back to the 22nd - when she sent him the photo at Pic Sauvegarde and they excitedly discussed seeing each other again in a few days time via Whats App. The Daily Mail reported she was due back at the farm in Gascony on 25th. Gascony is on the order with Spain so potentially only 3-5 hours drive away depending on where the farm is located.

When you look at what she was posting on the Shared Facebook she last posted from the Pyrenees on the 19th. The day she met the male hiker. The posts that came after that were about their dogs and the books they were publishing which could have been posted by Dan. She made no more posts about her hiking after the 19th.

So here is my brief timeline - it may or may not be precisely accurate depending on news sources accuracy:

Nov 19th - Met male hiker - no place mentioned in the post, last hiking post

Nov 22nd - spoke to Dan via Whats App and sent picture at Pic Sauvegarde

Nov 23rd - due to walk to Refuge Venasque?

Nov 25th - due to return home

Nov 28th - Dan reported on social media that she was missing and not heard from for 6 days

So there are some gaps:
- what was she doing from the 19th - 22nd - she didn't post on social media any pictures about her hiking despite having done it very frequently before - everyday in fact
- what day was she reported missing to the authorities?
Click to expand...

She posted on Instagram on 21st
 
Amonet said:
Could someone please do a transcription of this, including the interviewer questions?
Click to expand...
2nd December 2020

BBC Breakfast

Q: Dan, thank you very much for talking to us this morning. How are you?

DC: (Pause) It’s a difficult time.

Q: It certainly is, um, why do you want to talk to us today? What, how, what, what hope of help are you hoping to get?

DC: Over the past few days the search has been very intense in an area near where Es was walking, she had a clearly defined route, we know exactly where she was the last time she communicated with us and there’s been increasing talk among the search teams that perhaps she isn’t up there after all. Based on a number of factors, with Esther’s level of experience, the fact the weather was fantastic, these are clearly marked trails, and the depth of search that’s taken place, um, it’s increasingly become more plausible she isn’t, hasn’t had an accident on the mountain rather than the fact they simply couldn’t find her. And partly the reason I wanted to talk today was because if there’s even the smallest chance she is, (chokes up) excuse me, is still out, is still out there, then I’d like to get that message out that it’s a possibility and that she may still come home.

Q: What have you been told, um, are the possibilities if she’s not on the mountain?

DC: They haven’t speculated with me. The search teams on both sides of the border, the French and Spanish sides, so Esther, Esther was hiking in Spain for the past few weeks, she was clearly compliant with local regulations and such and she was only planning to dip into France for a particular remote mountain shelter and so, but that’s required search on both sides. Both teams have been very honest with me about their expectations with the search X taking place. Now that the case has become more of a judicial investigation in each country, they’ve advised me to do my best not to think about what that might mean. And simply that something else might, may have happened. And that they’re going to start looking into that.

Q: Dan I know this is a difficult time, we began this interview with you saying that, but what is the implication? What have they told you to be prepared for?

DC: Nothing, nothing specific. Um I’ve spent most of the last 4 days walking, to be honest, I’ve been out on the hills um retracing the routes that the search teams had already walked. They walked them multiple times, I walked them multiple times, I’m familiar with the terrain myself now. All they simply said is ‘we don’t think Esther has had an accident on the mountain’. Um they can never be totally 100% certain, it’s still a mountain landscape, but given the nature of the terrain they’ve just come to the conclusion that further search isn’t going to find her because she probably isn’t there, and I need to start waiting for the other police departments to start looking into this.

Q: Esther messaged you via WhatsApp the social media messaging um app on the 22nd of November and then she was on the top of Pic de Sauvegarde on the France/Spain border. It was quite common for you two to be in regular contact and you have absolute confidence in her ability as a walker and someone who’s done this before on her own, is that correct?

DC: Yeah, Esther and I have walked I don’t know how many thousand miles together, we did a 3-month trek this summer, um in the Alps. She’s done solo treks on her own, several times. She’s very competent, very confident, and she had all the equipment with her to stay safe. She usually kept in touch daily but she had warned me there was poor signal in the area and sometimes when she was on her solo trips it wasn’t unknown that it would be one or two days before I heard from her. It was always worrying but she was doing what she absolutely loved to do, I’ve never seen her as happy as she has been the past few weeks, so I respect that side of her and I loved her for it, I, love her for it. She, when she didn’t get in touch I assumed it was a signal issue. Now I’ve since been in the area and found that the signal is actually quite good in a lot of the places she might have been, so, um again that actually narrows down the, if she had had an accident and that was the reason she couldn’t have been in touch it must have been in a very very small area indeed which has been poured over by people, drones, helicopter, dogs, um, yep, so that’s why I, I’m I’m convinced that she isn’t up there.

Q: Ok, um Dan this is a very very tough time, you’ve made that very clear for you and of course for Esther’s family as well. Thank you for talking to us this morning and wish you well and obviously hope for a positive outcome in finding Esther, Esther Dingley.

DC: Thank you very much.

BBC iPlayer - Breakfast - 02/12/2020
 
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Vaccine said:
Thinking about the timeline of her disappearance with regards to the posts on their shared Facebook page. Dan published his first alert that she was missing on the 28th saying that she had not been heard from for 6 days. This takes us back to the 22nd - when she sent him the photo at Pic Sauvegarde and they excitedly discussed seeing each other again in a few days time via Whats App. The Daily Mail reported she was due back at the farm in Gascony on 25th. Gascony is on the order with Spain so potentially only 3-5 hours drive away depending on where the farm is located.

When you look at what she was posting on the Shared Facebook she last posted from the Pyrenees on the 19th. The day she met the male hiker. The posts that came after that were about their dogs and the books they were publishing which could have been posted by Dan. She made no more posts about her hiking after the 19th.

So here is my brief timeline - it may or may not be precisely accurate depending on news sources accuracy:

Nov 19th - Met male hiker - no place mentioned in the post, last hiking post

Nov 22nd - spoke to Dan via Whats App and sent picture at Pic Sauvegarde

Nov 23rd - due to walk to Refuge Venasque?

Nov 25th - due to return home

Nov 28th - Dan reported on social media that she was missing and not heard from for 6 days

So there are some gaps:
- what was she doing from the 19th - 22nd - she didn't post on social media any pictures about her hiking despite having done it very frequently before - everyday in fact
- what day was she reported missing to the authorities?
Click to expand...
Esther Dingley: British woman still missing in Pyrenees | The Independent
According to the mountain gendarmerie in Bagneres-de-Luchon, witnesses saw Ms Dingley on Pic de Sauvegarde last Sunday. (Nov 22)

Thank you for transcribing the interview, @Tortoise! Much appreciated.
 
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PommyMommy said:
I noticed the same thing. But, from the same article...

Spanish authorities were alerted on November 25 of her disappearance and alerted their French counterparts the following morning. They found her vehicle on the Spanish side of the border.

British hiker missing in Pyrenees is not in the mountains, rescuers believe | Daily Mail Online
Click to expand...
But what prompted the initial call to the police? DC randomly decided "I haven't spoken to her in 2 days, so I'm going to call the police"? There were a thousand reasons why they might not have connected (e.g. bad reception), but none of them urgent.
What was the urgency? ED was used to being out there by herself.
 
Obviously, this couple have chosen a very, very different lifestyle from ordinary people, so I don't see how pointing out all the various ways that they didn't act like ordinary people is proof of something suspicious. I mean, if they lived the way ordinary people did, the BBC would not have done a profile of them.

A big source of revenue for nomadic people is creating online social media about their livestyle and getting followers, they get paid for creating 'online content', as it's known. Some people succeed, some people don't.

IMO, they had a winter housesit, so one of them had to stay and housesit. They'd been together 24/7 for months, no reason both had to stay together, in lockdown, for the last period of good weather. IMO a woman alone at the housesit would be at more risk of crime than a woman hiking alone in the Pyrenees and I travel and hike alone. My concern in high mountain hiking is all in terms of accidents and getting lost, and not fear of the men I meet, especially in France and Spain.

IMO she would relax in the van for a couple of days, get provisions ready (IMO they must have owned very lightweight camping gear, for all the backpacking they did), and go on a different multi-day trip, returning to the van. She would be limited by the amount of food she could carry. After a summer of backpacking, she would have been very strong and capable of carrying her gear. Women can actually be quite strong, they are not delicate flowers who should stay home baking cookies for their man.
 
Tortoise said:
2nd December 2020

BBC Breakfast

Q: Dan, thank you very much for talking to us this morning. How are you?

DC: (Pause) It’s a difficult time.

Q: It certainly is, um, why do you want to talk to us today? What, how, what, what hope of help are you hoping to get?

DC: Over the past few days the search has been very intense in an area near where Es was walking, she had a clearly defined route, we know exactly where she was the last time she communicated with us and there’s been increasing talk among the search teams that perhaps she isn’t up there after all. Based on a number of factors, with Esther’s level of experience, the fact the weather was fantastic, these are clearly marked trails, and the depth of search that’s taken place, um, it’s increasingly become more plausible she isn’t, hasn’t had an accident on the mountain rather than the fact they simply couldn’t find her. And partly the reason I wanted to talk today was because if there’s even the smallest chance she is, (chokes up) excuse me, is still out, is still out there, then I’d like to get that message out that it’s a possibility and that she may still come home.

Q: What have you been told, um, are the possibilities if she’s not on the mountain?

DC: They haven’t speculated with me. The search teams on both sides of the border, the French and Spanish sides, so Esther, Esther was hiking in Spain for the past few weeks, she was clearly compliant with local regulations and such and she was only planning to dip into France for a particular remote mountain shelter and so, but that’s required search on both sides. Both teams have been very honest with me about their expectations with the search X taking place. Now that the case has become more of a judicial investigation in each country, they’ve advised me to do my best not to think about what that might mean. And simply that something else might, may have happened. And that they’re going to start looking into that.

Q: Dan I know this is a difficult time, we began this interview with you saying that, but what is the implication? What have they told you to be prepared for?

DC: Nothing, nothing specific. Um I’ve spent most of the last 4 days walking, to be honest, I’ve been out on the hills um retracing the routes that the search teams had already walked. They walked them multiple times, I walked them multiple times, I’m familiar with the terrain myself now. All they simply said is ‘we don’t think Esther has had an accident on the mountain’. Um they can never be totally 100% certain, it’s still a mountain landscape, but given the nature of the terrain they’ve just come to the conclusion that further search isn’t going to find her because she probably isn’t there, and I need to start waiting for the other police departments to start looking into this.

Q: Esther messaged you via WhatsApp the social media messaging um app on the 22nd of November and then she was on the top of Pic de Sauvegarde on the France/Spain border. It was quite common for you two to be in regular contact and you have absolute confidence in her ability as a walker and someone who’s done this before on her own, is that correct?

DC: Yeah, Esther and I have walked I don’t know how many thousand miles together, we did a 3-month trek this summer, um in the Alps. She’s done solo treks on her own, several times. She’s very competent, very confident, and she had all the equipment with her to stay safe. She usually kept in touch daily but she had warned me there was poor signal in the area and sometimes when she was on her solo trips it wasn’t unknown that it would be one or two days before I heard from her. It was always worrying but she was doing what she absolutely loved to do, I’ve never seen her as happy as she has been the past few weeks, so I respect that side of her and I loved her for it, I, love her for it. She, when she didn’t get in touch I assumed it was a signal issue. Now I’ve since been in the area and found that the signal is actually quite good in a lot of the places she might have been, so, um again that actually narrows down the, if she had had an accident and that was the reason she couldn’t have been in touch it must have been in a very very small area indeed which has been poured over by people, drones, helicopter, dogs, um, yep, so that’s why I, I’m I’m convinced that she isn’t up there.

Q: Ok, um Dan this is a very very tough time, you’ve made that very clear for you and of course for Esther’s family as well. Thank you for talking to us this morning and wish you well and obviously hope for a positive outcome in finding Esther, Esther Dingley.

DC: Thank you very much.

BBC iPlayer - Breakfast - 02/12/2020
Click to expand...


The only thing that stands out for me here is the signal issue. Esther warned him signal was poor in the area but having visited and walked the trails he's not found that to be the case except for a very small area.

Its a shame they didn't ask him whether he thought she could still be out in the mountains having walked it. Though I note the search services are now doubtful that she's there. The twist in the tail.
 
Grouse said:
2) what if, after settling down in one of these remote shelters for the night either on her own, or with another female hiker, some male hiker/hikers turn up at the shelter. That could be very uncomfortable and potentially dangerous.
Click to expand...
Snipped for focus.

Shelters are coed. If you're going to be uncomfortable because you're female and a guy might want to be in the same shelter, you don't belong in the hiker world that stays in shelters. It's how it is.

Most important, though, it's easy to imagine that staying at shelters is super risky if you're a woman (or, indeed, a man). In fact, there are rarely issues.... There's a kind of bonding that takes place between folks in the backcountry—even folks you've never met before—and there's kind of a code of acceptable behavior. This would be especially true in an extreme environment.

My experience is there's rarely predatory behavior, and when it happens, it's from severe mental illness like schizophrenia. That could happen anywhere.

That being said, I think there are areas in the US where the likelihood is higher (e.g. along some southerly sections of the AT), but that's because those areas are very accessible. The high Pyrenees aren't exactly in that category.

Also consider, in case you're wondering if people don't just consume a whole lot of alcohol, get drunk, and assault fellow hikers..... Consider how heavy alcohol is... You're carrying pack with your necessities, keeping it as trim as possible so you don't have to lug it up a mountain, and then you're carrying a case of Jack Daniels? Ummmm....no.
I suppose there's weed, but gosh only knows what effect that would have at significant altitude.
 
Vaccine said:
Interesting. What did she post? More hiking photos?
Click to expand...

Yeah pretty much the same as her usual stuff. More mountains. A couple of selfies. I can't work out how to copy and paste from it but it starts "I'm in heaven... The snail is on the move again and loving it". It's quite a short post compared to normal.

I don't really do Instagram and have little understanding of the technicalities, but it seems like Esther's posts duplicated from Insta to FB (this can be set up to be done automatically - and this will be why her FB posts have so many hashtags). I'm not sure why that last Instagram post on 21st didn't copy over though. Hopefully someone more Insta-savvy might be able to answer that, and also if there's a way of seeing what time it was posted.
 
dormouse said:
Yep. It seems a little strange that she was hiking with another man (just the two of them?) for long enough to take photos like this. I’m not sure how common this is for frequent travellers/hikers but it strikes me as odd. Again, I’m not implying in any way that there was anything wrong with this but I wonder what the circumstances were that led to it, how long they hiked together for, and how much her boyfriend knew about it.
Click to expand...
I've done it a lot, and it would not be especially remarkable. Some times another person happens to be in the same spot at the same time, and you get talking, hike for a while, hang out for a bit, maybe stay in the same shelter, and then move on separately.

Ooooor, become friends for a year or two or three or... for life!
 
I think Esther is incredibly capable and strong. I envy her wanderlust.
I wish I could have someone like her showing me the ropes in the Pyrenees.
In fact I was all set to explore the Cathar castles in the Midi Pyrenees this year but I didn’t go because of one thing - the present pandemic. That is the only “unusual” thing that makes this year of hiking in a documented and enforced red zone so very different and ill advised.
I worry about her state of mind. She has been quite open about her mental health struggles on social media. Confinement for such a free spirit can’t be easy. They both stated as much in their interview just before her disappearance.
I wish the authorities can find some small clue to lead them to discovering what happened.
 
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