Found Deceased Spain - Esther Dingley, from UK, missing in the Pyrenees, November 2020

[j_in_c]

In case others can't access the fantastic caltopo.com mapping website, I am attaching a screen shot that shows the different hiking routes in that area. I can see a scenario of coming down and thinking of returning to the trailhead and ending up on the wrong path based on the trail junctions shown on the map. I am sure SAR in the area is aware of spots where ppl can get turned around, but it is worse if they change plans (for any number of reasons) and no one is aware of this decision.

I also am curious about folks talking about filtering water with a pack on- I can't imagine a scenario where this would happen? My water filter is generally *in* my pack and to retrieve it, I need to put it down, get it out and then use it? I think it is possible she ended up in the water, but whatever happened, it seems likely it occurred while she had all her gear and poles on her or else these things would have been recovered by SAR.

 

[HongKongPhooey]

I think you are misreading my posts. I really don't know who the last known person(s) was that had contact with ED. Failing a mountain accident, I believe the Soham model may apply to this scenario. I have a feeling that LE may have been wrong footed by a person(s) and as in the Soham case, greater LE scrutiny of the last known contact(s) could hold the key to unlocking this mystery.

I'm going to respectfully disagree with your theory that there is any comparison to the murders of Jessica and Holly. Their murders took place indoors and a vehicle was used to transport their bodies. If by "Soham model" you mean that Huntley spoke on camera about being the last person to see them, and so in your opinion the last person to speak publicly is possibly guilty, I personally find that hard to reconcile. Or possibly that his partner Carr helped cover up? Maybe you could elaborate if you'd like to.

As far as we know, the last sighting was an Olympic skier and his partner. If they harmed Esther, what did they do with her? Hide her on the mountain? Carry her down?

I'm interested to know your thoughts if you care to share.

 

[ZaZara]

In case others can't access the fantastic caltopo.com mapping website, I am attaching a screen shot that shows the different hiking routes in that area. I can see a scenario of coming down and thinking of returning to the trailhead and ending up on the wrong path based on the trail junctions shown on the map. I am sure SAR in the area is aware of spots where ppl can get turned around, but it is worse if they change plans (for any number of reasons) and no one is aware of this decision.

I also am curious about folks talking about filtering water with a pack on- I can't imagine a scenario where this would happen? My water filter is generally *in* my pack and to retrieve it, I need to put it down, get it out and then use it? I think it is possible she ended up in the water, but whatever happened, it seems likely it occurred while she had all her gear and poles on her or else these things would have been recovered by SAR.

The area is reasonably well-marked.

 

[Recliner]

Just another snippet about light levels in the evening.
Have a look at the link below which is for webcams at the ski resort in Cauterets, about 65km west as athe crow flies.
They are live updates - check exact times on camera, and altitude.
It should give a real impression of the light level at this time of the evening, taking into account weather and the fact that we are 3 weeks on from events.
Cauterets les infos en live, webcams et météo sur la même page.

 

[Sjm_qc]

I'm going to respectfully disagree with your theory that there is any comparison to the murders of Jessica and Holly. Their murders took place indoors and a vehicle was used to transport their bodies. If by "Soham model" you mean that Huntley spoke on camera about being the last person to see them, and so in your opinion the last person to speak publicly is possibly guilty, I personally find that hard to reconcile. Or possibly that his partner Carr helped cover up? Maybe you could elaborate if you'd like to.

As far as we know, the last sighting was an Olympic skier and his partner. If they harmed Esther, what did they do with her? Hide her on the mountain? Carry her down?

I'm interested to know your thoughts if you care to share.

Quite. I’m frankly bemused at the supposed comparison.

Anyway, the only place I’m seeing any possible speculation about this particular witness is here.

2 further points before I overstep TOS:

- he (& his possible companion that day) are both quite well-known “public figures” in the sporting world and easy to find on SM/find where they are etc;

- local LE aren’t stupid and although they aren’t commenting publicly recently, they’ve thrown a considerable amount of resources into looking for Esther so far.

 

[Sjm_qc]

LBT Global full press release on behalf of Esther’s family:

L B Trust Global

 

[RickshawFan]

Adjusting, removing and adding layers are common as you said- what is odd is that it’s her layer closest to her skin that has changed (the lightest top). That should be the one stable layer and in both photos.

There's no way to know it's the one next to her skin. Putting one baselayer over another is common. She might also have just whipped off a baselayer and put a dry one on.

Women flip tops on and off in the middle of the trail sometimes!

BTW it's very good practice to have a spare baselayer in your pack that's a different weight to the one you have on. Why? Then you can wear them both!

IMO NO theory of the case should depend on this appearance of clothes change.

 

[RickshawFan]

And, why did she want fruit? Was she feeling a bit poorly? Why set off at a late time of day if she wasn’t adequately stocked up with the kind of food she needed?

Snipped for focus

IMO an excellent possibility: she needed fruit because she just found out there was no running water at the refuge and/or she didn't have enough to get there.

My guess is she didn't bring water treatment and just found out there wasn't running water at the refuge. IMO this was also the cause of an accident. She had to get water. In the dark.

Otherwise, whoever she asked for fruit could have given her a substitute with similar calories, like chocolate. But there's no word about a substitute.

 

[CoverMeCagney]

LBT Global full press release on behalf of Esther’s family:

L B Trust Global

Not much new. Apart from Mystery Hiker has spoken to police.

Dan does not seem to think it’s likely that Esther slipped and fell or is in the lake. He also confirms she wouldn’t have had phone reception over Sunday night.

Can’t copy and paste at the mo, but that’s the gist of it I think.

 

[RickshawFan]

No I can't she never posted on SM on 22nd. Basis for thinking she went up twice is :
1) believing Dan received the last pics on 22nd and that the police have validated them as such
2) the sun angle is quite different - 22nd pics indicate late afternoon 21st pics indicate midday (no shadow cast by the mast on those)
3) IG posts prove 21st, olympic skier witness proves 22nd
I agree about changing tops etc. Also the different sun angles could potentially mean she was up there twice on 21st but I think the points above apply.

Thanks.
Easy explanation for any change in sun angle: she lingered up there. After all, it's sunny and lovely.
Lingering would be all the more reason to change tops, too. She could definitely have grown chilled.
IMO shadow-casting is moot in the list of "evidence" because it can be vastly different depending on angle of view, horizontally and vertically.

Note, too:Because the sun will set behind mountains, the time when that spot gets dark is not the same as sunset on a weather chart for that latitude and longitude. The fact that shadow has moved over the valley does NOT mean ED had to have lingered long.

 

[Grouse]

LBT Global full press release on behalf of Esther’s family:

L B Trust Global

Lots of new insights there and a bit of perspective from the family's side. The "please stop forensically examining Esther's personal like on social groups" was a bit poignant. Think I'll take a break for a while.

 

[RickshawFan]

I also am curious about folks talking about filtering water with a pack on- I can't imagine a scenario where this would happen? My water filter is generally *in* my pack and to retrieve it, I need to put it down, get it out and then use it? I think it is possible she ended up in the water, but whatever happened, it seems likely it occurred while she had all her gear and poles on her or else these things would have been recovered by SAR.

Snipped for focus

Many good points in this nugget of a paragraph!

So, here's a potential scenario that goes between the fact-cracks.... I'm betting she didn't have water treatment because she was used to relying on piped water in the refuges. Perhaps she found out en route that the water was off at the refuge. So, she had to go looking for water. Super clean water to minimize chance of infection. This could have put her in a precarious spot, pack and all.
This could have been on the way down the mountain, in the valley, anywhere, really. But before she unpacked or signed in at the refuge.
It's also possible she plonked her pack somewhere, not on her back, while she clambered about, and they just haven't found it.

 

[ZaZara]

Snipped for focus

IMO an excellent possibility: she needed fruit because she just found out there was no running water at the refuge and/or she didn't have enough to get there.

My guess is she didn't bring water treatment and just found out there wasn't running water at the refuge. IMO this was also the cause of an accident. She had to get water. In the dark.

Otherwise, whoever she asked for fruit could have given her a substitute with similar calories, like chocolate. But there's no word about a substitute.

The Spanish couple had nothing left.

 

[Ruthbullock]

There's no way to know it's the one next to her skin. Putting one baselayer over another is common. She might also have just whipped off a baselayer and put a dry one on.

Women flip tops on and off in the middle of the trail sometimes!

BTW it's very good practice to have a spare baselayer in your pack that's a different weight to the one you have on. Why? Then you can wear them both!

IMO NO theory of the case should depend on this appearance of clothes change.

No need for it to be the base of any theory. She was witnessed near to the summit on the 22nd and sent a selfie from the same summit previously. Whether the photos were taken on the same day or two different days doesn’t matter. It would only tell us one possible thing, whether she reached the summit for certain on the 22nd, we know she was at the foot of the summit on the 22nd a witness spoke to her, we also know she had previously been up there as she had posted her selfie previously.
Edited to add: Dan also spoke with her at the summit on the 22nd according to LBT press release. Now whether this was a visual confirmation via video or she just verbally reported she was at the summit we don’t know for certain, but I’m fairly sure there were reports about them talking through visuals rather than just audio.

 

[patCee]

So Dan narrows down the area ED was most likely to go missing was small, taking less than an hour. An area he has searched himself in addition to the SAR. My lingering thoughts are that she went down to the van and became vulnerable to some unwanted attention. In that case though she would have made some contact with DC and family.
The hiking conditions were good:
DC says she was too experienced to fall into a lake:
She was well equipped:
She communicated frequently:
DC is able to pinpoint her location within an hour window:
DC and SAR on the French and Spanish side have made extensive professional searches of a wide area:
Seems unlikely she returned to the van:
No signs of ED or any of her belongings:
ED was in good physical/mental health:
Aliens are unlikely:

Well ED didn't just vanish into thin air. No yeti's in the Pyrenees. The only thing left seems to be an abduction of some sort.
None of this is making any sense.

 

[Ruthbullock]

Does anyone have a theory about the asking for fruit? IMO it still smacks of making her presence memorable to the skier (not sure for what reason exactly). If it was on the basis she had found out there was no running water- why not ask for water? If it was because she had run out of fresh food, does that not seem odd when we know this was day one of a three day hike. I know someone was hunting to find out for definite if she actually asked for fruit, or if it was just a badly reported story that has grown legs. Do we have an answer on that yet?

 

[Puzzles]

If a hiker, particularly one on an ascension route, requested "fruit, or something fresh” from me, I’d ask the reason for the request to determine what their needs were eg. calories or fluid.

Someone familiar with the urgency of adequate provisions when isolated in mountainous terrain, ie. the Olympic skier who reportedly encountered ED, would likely make the same enquires.

It’s possible, and IMO probable, a more detailed conversation between the three hikers took place and has been reported to LE. It may contain information relevant to their investigation (all unknown to the media and hence us) and even guide them as to which of several reported hypotheses to pursue.

ED may have responded she had adequate water or would take it from a lake, or offered her plans eg. to stay overnight at the refuge and cook a meal there, or to descend to the camper after a brief time on the peak.

I can’t imagine the conversation was simply “Do you have any fruit or something fresh?”

“No. We don't. Have a nice day.”

 

[patCee]

Does anyone have a theory about the asking for fruit? IMO it still smacks of making her presence memorable to the skier (not sure for what reason exactly). If it was on the basis she had found out there was no running water- why not ask for water? If it was because she had run out of fresh food, does that not seem odd when we know this was day one of a three day hike. I know someone was hunting to find out for definite if she actually asked for fruit, or if it was just a badly reported story that has grown legs. Do we have an answer on that yet?

My initial thought about asking for fruit, was maybe she hadn't eaten that morning and her sugar levels were low, rather than water. That can be disorientating if neglected, especially on a rigorous hike.
In the light of all that's been ruled unlikely she could have felt uneasy about someone but then shrugged it off. Like someone in the dead of night knocking on someones door if worried about being followed. That seems unlikely too from reading comments here about abduction being unlikely in that environment.
DC seems to be ruling out everything other than abduction or self harm.

 

[Lucy6226]

Does anyone have a theory about the asking for fruit? IMO it still smacks of making her presence memorable to the skier (not sure for what reason exactly). If it was on the basis she had found out there was no running water- why not ask for water?

This is my thought also. It seems specific, why not ask for water or if they had any water treatment tablets if that was the issue??

 

[RickshawFan]

DC says she was too experienced to fall into a lake:

Snipped for focus.

I would venture to bet that most water accidents while hiking are performed by folks who are "too experienced to fall into a lake". Fact is, people do.
Second factoid: A huge number of hikers who go missing every year are categorized as "experienced" by loved ones.
Third factoid: Very experienced hikers have mishaps and go missing every year. This is, like, the fifth one I've followed this fall.
Fourth factoid: being experienced doesn't exempt you from falling into a lake