Found Deceased Spain - Jay Slater, 19, missing on holiday in Tenerife, 17 June 2024 #5

[jackal67]

I still have that question - why on earth would he think that that (not the bottom of the ravine but the terrain at all) was a better option than the road or waiting for the bus or a lift? Why did he leave at all? I simply don't buy the 'young people make poor decisions' argument. He sounds a fairly steady young man. I still feel there was a reason for his sudden departure. I really want to hear MWT's explanation of his previous statement.

and... if the dogs were resting through the heat of the day, how in heaven's name did anyone find him in that area at all? Someone deserves huge thanks and respect for their diligence and courage.

I still think the most important question is why Jay went back to the Airbnb in the first place and why he left so quickly after arriving. The Airbnb may not be responsible for his death but if he had not been there he would still be alive today
MOO

 

[jackal67]

A lot of things get said by families in these distressing situations. imo, usually anger and frustration are some of the first emotions that surface, when you feel helpless and nothing is in your control

I wonder why Lucy suddenly popped back up and starts speaking for the Family .??
She had been off the radar . The family should have had an official spokesperson right from the begining someone who knew how to deal with the press MOO

 

[Bxo]

New poster here. Been following the WS threads closely since the beginning. Regardless of previous he didn't deserve an ending like that. Its such a shame.

Is this just bad reporting on DM? They're saying he most likely was killed instantly and wasn't there for a long time. But he was there for nearly a month?

'Initially they thought how could he be so close and yet be missed but now having seen the location they appreciate the remoteness of it and there is no criticism of the search"

'It looks as if he fell from a height so he would most likely have been killed instantly and he wasn't there for a long time

 

[CoverMeCagney]

New poster here. Been following the WS threads closely since the beginning. Regardless of previous he didn't deserve an ending like that. Its such a shame.

Is this just bad reporting on DM? They're saying he most likely was killed instantly and wasn't there for a long time. But he was there for nearly a month?

'Initially they thought how could he be so close and yet be missed but now having seen the location they appreciate the remoteness of it and there is no criticism of the search"

'It looks as if he fell from a height so he would most likely have been killed instantly and he wasn't there for a long time

Just that he wasn’t lying there alive but injured for days on end. The fall killed him.

 

[Grouse]

In the context it was used, a "fall or precipitation" might mean he either fell or was pushed. From the autopsy and the injuries it might not be easy (or possible) to tell which.

It might be difficult, especially with the likely amount of decomposition, to even determine exact cause of death.

There was one report of a friend hearing him possibly sliding on gravel. I wonder if they will be able to determine anything like that, possibly from damage to clothing/shoes?

Depending on what time his phone packed up maybe something might be gleaned from that, such as accelerometer data? Or maybe a smartwatch/fitbit?

Or it might just be an open verdict.

 

[suzyjackson]

New poster here. Been following the WS threads closely since the beginning. Regardless of previous he didn't deserve an ending like that. Its such a shame.

Is this just bad reporting on DM? They're saying he most likely was killed instantly and wasn't there for a long time. But he was there for nearly a month?

'Initially they thought how could he be so close and yet be missed but now having seen the location they appreciate the remoteness of it and there is no criticism of the search"

'It looks as if he fell from a height so he would most likely have been killed instantly and he wasn't there for a long time

I read that too and assumed it was a clumsy wording meaning that he wasn't alive there at the bottom of the ravine for a long time. Literally it doesn't make any sense, I think they are trying to be reassuring to the family that he didn't suffer for a prolonged period.

I wonder if the autopsy of lung contents will show anything in relation to that

JMO

 

[Bxo]

Just that he wasn’t lying there alive but injured for days on end. The fall killed him.

I was hoping this was what it meant! I dont think it's very clear though and no doubt that will fuel the conspiracy theories I've seen even more that "he was placed there recently"

 

[Dotta]

Is this just bad reporting on DM? They're saying he most likely was killed instantly and wasn't there for a long time. But he was there for nearly a month?

'Initially they thought how could he be so close and yet be missed but now having seen the location they appreciate the remoteness of it and there is no criticism of the search"

'It looks as if he fell from a height so he would most likely have been killed instantly and he wasn't there for a long time

A month in searches of Missing Persons is a short time.

Especially in vast and rough terrain.

That is why
"he wasn't there for a long time."

JMO

 

[jackal67]

Could have flown a drone in perhaps - they were able to get a helicopter over to help with recovery. Inaccessible might also be shorthand for it being really dangerous and not a good idea for the general curious public to go anywhere near (but merely almost inaccessible and rather treacherous for the experienced S&R teams). There was the video earlier in the thread where they were using machetes to hack through.

Yes but my question is why they were looking i n that particular area at that precise time as opposed to all the other areas. I still feel that they may have been given information MOO

 

[Anxala]

In the context it was used, a "fall or precipitation" might mean he either fell or was pushed. From the autopsy and the injuries it might not be easy (or possible) to tell which.

Precipitation doesn't imply 'pushing' so I think the meaning is clear, from the intransitive verb:

: to fall headlong
: to fall or come suddenly into some condition
: to move or act with violent or unwise speed

eg. a combo of him maybe moving too fast, losing his footing, stepping on unsolid ground, causing him to fall headlong.

 

[su5ie]

I was hoping this was what it meant! I dont think it's very clear though and no doubt that will fuel the conspiracy theories I've seen even more that "he was placed there recently"

I wrote a post yesterday about wording from DM. I know journalists can be on a timeline to get news out before anyone else . They had wrote the article yesterday about jays remains being found but stated his "clothes and possessions were found alongside/beside/near his body " depending on which rehashed article you clicked into .I felt it misled people into believing he was not in his clothes ,and for a split second I thought that was the case . It is mistakes like these that fuel more speculation and hurt imo

 

[Dotta]

I wrote a post yesterday about wording from DM. I know journalists can be on a timeline to get news out before anyone else . They had wrote the article yesterday about jays remains being found but stated his "clothes and possessions were found alongside/beside/near his body " depending on which rehashed article you clicked into .I felt it misled people into believing he was not in his clothes ,and for a split second I thought that was the case . It is mistakes like these that fuel more speculation and hurt imo

I think some people
"change a fly into an elephant"
meaning seeing things that are not here.

The sentences in DM were/are completely understandable and clear
even for a foreigner
(not English native speaker)
like me

JMO

 

[guiser]

Yes but my question is why they were looking i n that particular area at that precise time as opposed to all the other areas. I still feel that they may have been given information MOO

They never really wavered from their belief that he wasn't far from the last phone ping so initially they searched that area and when they didn't find him, they went back and searched more carefully the difficult, inaccessible areas that likely weren't so closely examined when time was of the essence.

 

[markoid]

I don't think it's that crazy he went off the road. He was travelling North, either mistakenly or misled by apple maps, the first thing he would have come to is a cafe. The cafe was shut - it opened at 10am. Opposite the cafe was a path leading up to a transmitter of sorts. It would make absolute sense to walk up a hundred yards or so, to get a good view of his surroundings. This is the view on Google Earth looking towards the Baranco Juan Lopez, where it appears his body was found:

View attachment 518105

He would have seen the outbuilding or cottage at C, notably (if you zoom in on Google Earth) with some clear plastic water containers against the near wall. Given that he was thirsty it's not inconceivable he would leave the road at A, walk down a gravel path - suitable for 4x4s - towards B. Along that track is where has last known location is. Note: some people have imagined him jumping off the road to evade people - he was on the track so this seems extremely unlikely.

Having got to the building at C, and presumably finding it empty, the next building would have come into view at D. There's actually 4 buildings along the track, 2 seems OK, the third is pretty derelict, and the fourth is a little off the trail and nothing but walls. You can see the latter two on the YouTube videos from people who've walked all the way to the beach. I think it's possible he moved on to the second building before getting into the sunk costs fallacy zone and continued to the river.

One thing worth mentioning is that the overgrown ravine footage we've seen is what he fell into, not what he was walking through. Depending how far he got there may have still been a half decent trail.

As to why he left, the obvious answer to me is that the old fellas he left with were knackered and had no intention of giving him a lift any time soon. As to the idea of him being scared on leaving, neither the two calls we know he made, the fact he popped out for cigarettes and went back, and Orphelia's description of him don't suggest that at all. The only person who has is a failed detective turned gutter press reporter who has a vested interest in keeping the mystery up. Maybe there is more to it, but I can't see it.

Thanks for this.

 

[Ruthbullock]

"The result of the preliminary autopsy indicates that the cause of death is due to a fall or precipitation," police say.

What does 'precipitation' mean?

edited:
I've looked it up

precipitate in British English​

verb (prɪˈsɪpɪˌteɪt )
1. (transitive)
to cause to happen too soon or sooner than expected; bring on

2.
to throw or fall from or as from a height

3.
to cause (moisture) to condense and fall as snow, rain, etc, or (of moisture, rain, etc) to condense and fall thus

4. chemistry
to undergo or cause to undergo a process in which a dissolved substance separates from solution as a fine suspension of solid particles

adjective (prɪˈsɪpɪtɪt )
5.
rushing ahead

6.
done rashly or with undue haste

7.
sudden and brief

noun (prɪˈsɪpɪtɪt )
8. chemistry
a precipitated solid in its suspended form or after settling or filtering

Collins English Dictionary. Copyright © HarperCollins Publishers

https://www.collinsdictionary.com/dictionary/english/precipitate

I think it was an accidental fall, but I’m glad they haven’t ruled out it could be a throw
“to throw or fall from or as from a height”
I have also seen it quoted that a home office autopsy will also be suggested as it’s more in depth and I hope they agree to that. As a parent I would want as much information as possible and whilst there is no way of knowing for certain how it played out- some information that may be discovered in a UK autopsy will perhaps provide some further answers and possibly comfort for the family.

Jay Slater's parents given crucial advice over post-mortem after body found

Mark Williams-Thomas, a former police detective, has 'strongly' advised Jay Slater's parents of a crucial step to rule out third-party involvement for the post-mortem test

www.mirror.co.uk

 

[jackal67]

They never really wavered from their belief that he wasn't far from the last phone ping so initially they searched that area and when they didn't find him, they went back and searched more carefully the difficult, inaccessible areas that likely weren't so closely examined when time was of the essence.

So you think they decided to go right back to the beginning and start the search again ? I read that they were with the Dutch team at the last ping location. That would make sense as the Dutch needed to be shown where to start

 

[jackal67]

I think it was an accidental fall, but I’m glad they haven’t ruled out it could be a throw
“to throw or fall from or as from a height”
I have also seen it quoted that a home office autopsy will also be suggested as it’s more in depth and I hope they agree to that. As a parent I would want as much information as possible and whilst there is no way of knowing for certain how it played out- some information that may be discovered in a UK autopsy will perhaps provide some further answers and possibly comfort for the family.

Jay Slater's parents given crucial advice over post-mortem after body found

Mark Williams-Thomas, a former police detective, has 'strongly' advised Jay Slater's parents of a crucial step to rule out third-party involvement for the post-mortem test

www.mirror.co.uk

Yes I hope the family do decide to take this advice. I know I would want as much information as possible for my own peace of mind. MOO

 

[Ruthbullock]

There were - and still are - so many strange things about what happened that night. It’s not like your typical missing hiker case because the back story to why Jay was even in Masca, miles away from his mates, his hotel and the party, is interesting and suspicious. Once the info came out about Jay’s past and a suggestion he’d been taken, the rumour mill just snowballed.

I’m afraid we’re going to see this more and more now. Ultimately there seems to be a social paranoia and mistrust of authority. From a sociological point of view it’s really quite fascinating.

I think these things always happened but usually within a small community and its whispers within the walls. As truly awful as the Facebook and conspiracy theories were, the money raised has been immense and would have reached nowhere near that amount without it being in the public domain as much. There will be people who saw this case as karma for personal reasons- perhaps their own child had been attacked, it also attracted a lot of younger posters (who would normally not even entertain Facebook) and fail to see the longevity of comments on certain platforms, compared to Snapchat where you can say it and it’s gone again. A few years ago it would be the court case reporting where everything came out, but there is no way to prevent this happening time and again in the age of social media.

 

[su5ie]

I wonder why Lucy suddenly popped back up and starts speaking for the Family .??
She had been off the radar . The family should have had an official spokesperson right from the begining someone who knew how to deal with the press MOO

I would like to think that Jay's family and her own family shielded her from further abuse online imo Lucy acted swiftly to get law enforcement out searching quickly .She has been subjected to extreme and intense scrutiny from day 1 ,which I imagine was fuelled by trolls jealous of a good looking girl and they targeted her with so much slander .I did note that the lads didn't get as much speculative rumour surrounding their lifestyle. imho I think Lucy is being given or taking the opportunity in a roundabout way to say I had nothing to do with jay going missing ,he was my friend and now you all know it was a misadventure . On the reasons the family didn't have an official spokesperson ,the missing person's charity did put out statements on the families behalf and between all the carry on over the go fund me and questions over where and how it was being spent (debbie did have to constantly explain herself over this ,which was absolutely diabolical)and the stress they were under they probably weren't thinking clearly its not like any of those involved have experienced a tragedy like this before to be aware of protocol and I don't think anybody could be prepared for the media frenzy that ensued

 

[markoid]

I think it was an accidental fall, but I’m glad they haven’t ruled out it could be a throw
“to throw or fall from or as from a height”
I have also seen it quoted that a home office autopsy will also be suggested as it’s more in depth and I hope they agree to that. As a parent I would want as much information as possible and whilst there is no way of knowing for certain how it played out- some information that may be discovered in a UK autopsy will perhaps provide some further answers and possibly comfort for the family.

Jay Slater's parents given crucial advice over post-mortem after body found

Mark Williams-Thomas, a former police detective, has 'strongly' advised Jay Slater's parents of a crucial step to rule out third-party involvement for the post-mortem test

www.mirror.co.uk

My wife does languages. She suggested the word precipitation in Spanish would be a quicker or reckless fall - not being thrown!

(Disclaimer; there are other linguists!)