Spoliation Motion Sept 22, 2009 Includes Response

[carrie]

They're between a rock and a hard place and the state just called them on it. IF the experts file reports supporting the motion to dismiss and it's not granted, then their opinions are worthless at trial. "Um, didn't you previously file a report that in your expert opinion it was impossible for you to dispute the state's case based on the evidence available due to the processing of the crime scene?" On the other hand, if they do not file such statements, then there is no basis whatsoever for that motion to be filed, much less granted. What a pickle JB is in, huh?

Thanks so much Lin for weighing in on this with your opinion and for explaining some things for us. Great to have you and others on WS when I get confused or unsure of my interpretation of things legal.

 

[carrie]

Way to go, Ashton for his response to he defenses motion. IMHO, the State comes off sounding very on top of their game. :woohoo:

 

[CarolinaMoon]

I finally went to sleep and had this on my mind. First of all, there can be testimony that there was a heart-shaped appearance on the duct tape prior to dusting. That will be in the report, along with its approximate size (man's thumbnail). Fact is, the heart-shaped appearance was obliterated in an attempt to find fingerprints on the tape.

My only question for fellow sleuthers here is WHY didn't the lab tech isolate that small section of tape and not dust it? Since the area seemed to be an adhesive-type residue, it's obvious to me that there would be no fingerprint on the tape in that part, the fingerprint would be on the sticker. Okay, another question... I think one could have expected the powder to highlight the area since the residue would have more powder attached to it.

My layman's thinking on the second question is that since the tape was underwater and exposed to the elements, the "stickiness" was gone...

 

[bailee]

As I stated a few pages back I find this "leak" highly questionable. Comming on the heels of the smack down from SA regarding spoliation of evidence. Hmmm I think it is not so big a deal. Just a slow news week.
:innocent:

as always MOO

 

[The World According]

I posted a few months ago a picture of a band-aide with a heart sticker op top of it, that was from Casey's photo bucket.She had, at some point, thought that was a clever little thing to save to her computer, so if she did put a heart shaped sticker on top of duct tape also, it makes it like a pattern that she had. It is a tiny little thing I know, but there are a thousand coincidences that Jose can't explain. Am I remembering correctly, in one of Baden and Baez's first joint interviews on TV wasn't she addressing this months ago? Baden opined, IIRC, that the way the press was describing the duct tape and sticker were not at all factual based on what she had reviewed. I remember thinking at the time what in the world is she doing discussing the evidence in this case on national TV, it will take away any credibility she may have. Does anyone recall Linda mentioning this?

 

[Sdavidson11]

I think this is JB's strategy. And it has worked in some other cases. If he can convince the jury that the lab was enough in error, then he may be able to convince them that the lab is incompetent. If he does that then they could find any testing done by that lab as suspect.

However, JB may be jumping the gun. We don't know what the state is going to do. They may not bring up the testing. They may have other sources or testing done that shows the heart or it's remains. Or they might be hoping that they can convince the jury that the time the remains spent out in the weather made the evidence so fragile that in essence the weather destroyed it. And since this is so apparently true, I think JB will find it hard to convince the jury that this makes the lab incompetent.

I so agree with you. I am still reading through all of the heart shape sticker info trying to find someone who may have taken a picture of the adhesive other than the FBI lab. My question is if anyone knows, has JB set up his secure server for his experts to examine the autopsy photos or are they just getting the information from the states discovery and creating the smoke and mirrors from just the information the state has provided and the high price experts have not performed any test or analysis of there own.

 

[Muzikman]

As I stated a few pages back I find this "leak" highly questionable. Comming on the heels of the smack down from SA regarding spoliation of evidence. Hmmm I think it is not so big a deal. Just a slow news week.
:innocent:

as always MOO

This is not a leak, but from Appendix I of Baez's Motion for Dismissal filed last week. Just nobody caught this part until now.

 

[MD MOMMY]

I finally went to sleep and had this on my mind. First of all, there can be testimony that there was a heart-shaped appearance on the duct tape prior to dusting. That will be in the report, along with its approximate size (man's thumbnail). Fact is, the heart-shaped appearance was obliterated in an attempt to find fingerprints on the tape.

My only question for fellow sleuthers here is WHY didn't the lab tech isolate that small section of tape and not dust it? Since the area seemed to be an adhesive-type residue, it's obvious to me that there would be no fingerprint on the tape in that part, the fingerprint would be on the sticker. Okay, another question... I think one could have expected the powder to highlight the area since the residue would have more powder attached to it.

My layman's thinking on the second question is that since the tape was underwater and exposed to the elements, the "stickiness" was gone...

I think it was wise to dust that part. I find that not having a picture if that is the case is careless at best. When you put a sticker on anything, your hand generally touches whatever material you are placing the sticker on. It's kind of IMO impossible to only touch the sticker. My daughter is 4 and plays with stickers constantly so I have some experience LOL. The smaller the sticker the tougher it is to not touch the material in which it's placed. JMO of course:waitasec:

 

[MD MOMMY]

This is not a leak, but from Appendix I of Baez's Motion for Dismissal filed last week. Just nobody caught this part until now.

Thank you. I was so confused as I was reading "leak" I wondered if I dreamt reading the documents a week ago. For anyone that wants to read them press CTRL+ to enlarge. I think someone transcribed them now though, which is fab!

 

[bailee]

I just got back Muzikman. I guess what I meant by "leak" was how the article itself was written KWIM. Sacastic remarks don't come across well when written. :banghead:
I bow to you for all that you do for us here on WS. Thanks for enlightening everyone, I think I'll go back to lurking now. :blushing:

 

[Muzikman]

I just got back Muzikman. I guess what I meant by "leak" was how the article itself was written KWIM. Sacastic remarks don't come across well when written. :banghead:
I bow to you for all that you do for us here on WS. Thanks for enlightening everyone, I think I'll go back to lurking now. :blushing:

No need to lurk Bailee! There were a number of people who said "leak" on two different threads, which is why I wanted to clarify. Seemed to be like a snowball rolling downhill. :crazy:

You are right, the way the article is written, they do try to make it seem like they had an "unavailable, exclusive, leaked document". I already had it, so I knew better. :waitasec:

And you're also right, it IS a slow news week for Casey....

And thanks for the props!

 

[ZsaZsa]

I finally went to sleep and had this on my mind. First of all, there can be testimony that there was a heart-shaped appearance on the duct tape prior to dusting. That will be in the report, along with its approximate size (man's thumbnail). Fact is, the heart-shaped appearance was obliterated in an attempt to find fingerprints on the tape.

My only question for fellow sleuthers here is WHY didn't the lab tech isolate that small section of tape and not dust it? Since the area seemed to be an adhesive-type residue, it's obvious to me that there would be no fingerprint on the tape in that part, the fingerprint would be on the sticker. Okay, another question... I think one could have expected the powder to highlight the area since the residue would have more powder attached to it.

My layman's thinking on the second question is that since the tape was underwater and exposed to the elements, the "stickiness" was gone...

I just sat down and paid all my bills, and I'm sure my fingerprints are on the tacky side of the stamps I used.. why wouldn't there be any on the sticker residue?

 

[Snaz]

I just sat down and paid all my bills, and I'm sure my fingerprints are on the tacky side of the stamps I used.. why wouldn't there be any on the sticker residue?

And why isn't is possible there were prints between the multiple layers of duct tape across Caylee's face? It seems to me if nowhere else, between the layers would be a place that would be protected from time and elements. Nothing holds prints like duct tape (and it's industrial strength, at that!). And that could be retained as work product....

I guess until I hear at trial that there were absolutely NO fingerprints, I will believe there were and the State is just holding onto that evidence for now.

JMO.

 

[celticthyme]

All I can hope is that they have waaaay more evidence than we know they have, INCLUDING PRINTS, just because one lab claims not to have evidence, doesn't necessarily mean another does?? (whose on 1st ?)

 

[AZlawyer]

Here's the first page of Muzikman's latest contribution: Appendix I from the Motion to Dismiss, titled FBI Laboratory Activity and Communication Log. First draft - Please let me know what to correct or fill in blanks. I made _____s where I had no idea what was handwritten and put (?) after words I was pretty sure about but not positive. This is only a loose transcription so don't use this to base any facts or theories on unless you go back to check the original document for yourselves: http://www.filedropper.com/fbilabcommlog
Hope it will be helpful.

12/12/08
Per telcalls/emails with ERT (?) K.C. - some items to be brought to lab on Sat for testing. Lab agreed to expedite (over weekend) only the items for identification plus the duct tape for _______. The other items can be delivered but will be dealt with during normal working hours.

12/13/08
Copy of OCSO inventory list provided by SA C. No DNA on tape since under water. (Previously spoke with _______.) SA C. will send listing of items they have from scene(s) so until can review and items can be submitted at one time.

12/13/08
Per TEM (?) Shaw Q59.1 5 hair pieces for info added and Q59.2 15 hair roots for DNA added.
Per ___ (Fontaine) a heart shape/outline was noted on tape but unable to see it after powder process - no photo of their (and then lined through and replaced by) EPM (?) image.

12/15/08
Telcall from SA C. - family had property landscaped around time of disappearance - have weed baner (sic) (black tarp-like _____) unsure if units can do anything with it. Found at scene: plastic Disney bag near body (waste blew on it), more duct tape, lettering material possibly from shirt (field believes shirt had iron on that read Big Trouble Comes In Small Packages), they have canvas-type laundry bag from scene and they found one (1) in residence. They may be getting another search warrant for residence ---> stickers/scrapbooking materials. Agent asked to know if TEM (?) saw anything on tape. Per TEM (?) --> no, didn't see any heart shape item. Notified agent (___ SA C.) Per heart-shape/adhesive was on Q63 (?) near end or on non-adh side. ______ also suggested to agent that _____ also be requested to do vaccuum metal (?) deposition from plastic bags at scene. ___/__ added for plastic bags - ___/tape - cu (?) letter (serial #390) - used case agent and TFO for TO portion - per ____.

12/15/08
Per OANI (?) (____) Q61 (?), NE3 (?) packaged together - transferred to ONA__ by DNAI. Asked DNAI /T__ for copies of their chains (?). Telcall with SA C. - ME's office wants tibia and hair mass back for review. DNAII placed in storage for pick up. NE3 kept DMAII-chain amended (?) (DMAII's). DMAII asked if any other remains would need to be typed - DMAII report uploaded (serial #389). Telcall with SA C. - may need to pick up items personally on 12/16 for delivery to ME's office - will advise 12/16.

BBM

"Vacuum metal deposition" is a newish way of developing latent prints that can't be developed through the normal methods. I wonder if they actually processed any of the bags this way?

 

[AZlawyer]

BBM

"Vacuum metal deposition" is a newish way of developing latent prints that can't be developed through the normal methods. I wonder if they actually processed any of the bags this way?

Sorry to quote myself. It just occurred to me that VMD could maybe have been used to detect sticker residue as well...but I suspect that it is way too late now after that tape has been processed in a dozen different ways.

 

[CarolinaMoon]

I just sat down and paid all my bills, and I'm sure my fingerprints are on the tacky side of the stamps I used.. why wouldn't there be any on the sticker residue?

My thoughts come from the fact that when one pulls a sticker off the page, one doesn't put one's entire finger on the backing. There might be little pieces of fingerprint around the edges of the sticker backing. The fingerprint would more likely be on the face of the sticker which had to be firmly affixed to the surface.

 

[ZsaZsa]

My thoughts come from the fact that when one pulls a sticker off the page, one doesn't put one's entire finger on the backing. There might be little pieces of fingerprint around the edges of the sticker backing. The fingerprint would more likely be on the face of the sticker which had to be firmly affixed to the surface.

Yes, I see, but I am thinking that a print would be retained in the adhesive part, rather than the shiny surface,which was underwater...?

 

[CarolinaMoon]

Yes, I see, but I am thinking that a print would be retained in the adhesive part, rather than the shiny surface,which was underwater...?

I totally agree with you. I just don't think an entire fingerprint would be on the sticky side. No biggie! :dance:

 

[kaRN]

As I stated a few pages back I find this "leak" highly questionable. Comming on the heels of the smack down from SA regarding spoliation of evidence. Hmmm I think it is not so big a deal. Just a slow news week.
:innocent:

as always MOO

Or maybe a spoiler for the 48 Hours Mystery episode. I like that your glass is half full. :woohoo: