Stain in Trunk May Show Outline of Child**REVISIT FOR READING*

[The Eunice Burns]

If you think about how a dog "marks" and identifies territory, they ( and animals) have much more heightened senses than humans. Recall how a dog or cat can travel all across the country to return to their "home." Humans can not do that. Aside from the fact that cadaver dogs are highly & specifically trained. The defense will push junk science. They and the Anthony team have no other options than to try and discredit anything the SA has. They have no evidence to support Casey's innocence.

I am a dog person. I have lived w/ dogs all my life and have always been amazed at their ability w/ scents. I remember once we had a poodle mix who ratted out my father. He had been given a 2 pound box of chocolates for a gift. He was not supposed to have it--diabetes. It was wrapped in the packaging, wrapped in gift wrap, and then he put it into a plastic bag and wrapped it up. One day, I noticed my little dog going crazy near a piece of furniture, she had sniffed something out. Buried under a mountain of other things, was the box of chocolate that had been "carefully" wrapped for his use and secrecy. I laughed myself silly. My father was so mad at that dog!

Sorry--OT. Your post just brought back that memory of my amazing little mutt who "told" on my father.

 

[treeseeker]

Quoting myself here, its now part of a set:

Forming a theory - Baquacil is proprietary, and I'm not sure if this patent is saying it contains copper. The date of the patent application I linked is dated 1996. IIRC, the A's used Baquacil in their pool, instead of chlorine. Could this explain the luminol glow?


Snipped from Wiki:
Drawbacks
Luminol has some drawbacks that may limit its use in a crime scene investigation:

Luminol chemiluminescence can also be triggered by copper or copper-containing alloys, horseradish, and certain bleaches[citation needed]; and, as a result, if a crime scene is thoroughly cleaned with a bleach solution[specify], residual bleach will cause the entire crime scene to produce the typical blue glow, effectively camouflaging any organic evidence, such as blood.
Luminol will also detect the small amounts of blood present in urine and it can be distorted if animal blood is present in the room that is being tested.
Luminol reacts with fecal matter, causing the same glow as if it were blood.
Luminol's presence may prevent other tests from being performed on a piece of evidence. However, it has been shown that DNA can be successfully extracted from samples treated with luminol reagent.[4] http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Luminol


Snipped from freepatentsonline:
The invention discloses a composition and method for the enhancement of polyguanide based water sanitizing systems and for conversion of such systems to alternative water sanitizing systems if desired. The method includes the addition of an enhancing or conversion agent selected from the group consisting of a halogen salt, a Bromohydantoin and a chlorobromohydantoin in an amount to provide a concentration of approximately from 1 to 50 parts per million. Sodium borate and/or polyphosphate may also be added to the system to improve the effectiveness of the enhancing agent. The system may be converted to an alternative water sanitizing system by the addition of a sanitizing agent selected from the group consisting of chlorine, copper, silver, quaternary ammonium compounds, and polyquaternary ammonium compounds, which may be released into the water at a rate of 0.01 to 1 ounces per hour per 10,000 gallons of water for a period until conversion is complete.

Edit to add: copper is a known anti-bacterial
Edit to to add: link to freepatentonline http://www.freepatentsonline.com/5527506.html

sorry about that, I guess its getting late

The basic ingredient in Baquacil can cause DNA damage in bacteria. Can it interfere with forensic human DNA detection?

link:
[ame]http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/PAPB[/ame]

 

[suepitzl]

What is this about a BLOODSTAIN outline in the trunk? First I ever heard of a bloodstain. Can someone please comment? The source was Fox News.

 

[celticthyme]

What is this about a BLOODSTAIN outline in the trunk? First I ever heard of a bloodstain. Can someone please comment? The source was Fox News.

BBM
Nuff Said! consider the source

 

[Tulessa]

[/SIZE][/B]

BBM
Nuff Said! consider the source

LMAO! So true! :innocent:

 

[Jolynna]

Rotten raw food does not equal a dead human body. There is a distinct difference in the biological signature of the fluids present in each of them.

And I have not had the misfortune to have smelled a dead human body, but many here have and they have repeatedly stated that YES---there is a difference. A noticeable difference. I believe them.

I think you are right. Besides, NO raw meat was found in the car trunk. No food products were found in the car trunk. There were empty cheddar cheese packets, beer & soda cans and an empty oscar meyer salami package (that was minus ANY salami). None of which smells like a dead body.

imo

 

[kpalma715]

What is this about a BLOODSTAIN outline in the trunk? First I ever heard of a bloodstain. Can someone please comment? The source was Fox News.

Wondering the same thing! I wonder if they are assuming thats what it is and printed it or they know something we don't know. It doesn't really say in the evidence what the stain is.

 

[celticthyme]

I have not smelled a dead human body. that is why i am asking all these questions. I am finding that there are several people in here who have.

Maybe that is why so many people are convinced.

You Betcha!

 

[websurfer]

Could somebody here do a still picture and lightly highlight the outline of a child they think is in the trunk please?
My eyesight is not good..need help seeing that thanks!:angel:

 

[Brini]

The LE officers know the smell because they have smelled it. Same as George.

Yes, it is a fact that the paper towels contain the same fats as a decomposing human body.

It is also a fact that an official FBI or expert report will NEVER NEVER say "this is definitely human decomp" or anything similar. They will ALWAYS say that, of course, if something completely crazy happened (like...um...a couple of pigs playing with nail polish remover and bleach in the trunk and then dying in there) it might cause a similar chemical signature. That pig scenario wouldn't explain Caylee's hair, though. And of course the fact that Caylee was found dead also bolsters the conclusion that her dead body was in her mom's trunk. At least we've eliminated the possibility that these lab results are incorrect because Caylee is alive.

The FBI agent was saying that she was told she couldn't say the hair was definitely from a dead body. Exactly what I said in the previous paragraph. They won't say 100%, not ever.

The air samples are not junk science. They are fairly new science, so they will certainly be challenged by the defense, but they aren't junk science.

You really just need to read the threads and do your own research. Or call a homicide cop. Yes, experts (which would include homicide cops and cadaver dogs) can tell the difference between these smells. Yes, their testimony regarding these things is permitted in court.

Exactly!

Scientists tend not to say, "This is..". They say, "Is consistent with", or "Appears to be." Or, even, "Is not excluded from."

They do not deal in absolutes.

 

[Brini]

Do you have a link to Dr G report stating that?

Yes people make mistakes, but these are professionals and this evidence may be used in court.

Do you know the names of each tech that made these statements? I will look myself too. thanks

We have all the reports that have been released, to date.

You are welcome to search them, yourself, to find your answers.

Thanks!

 

[Brini]

I can't get you a link to an official report and I'm not a cop. I've smelled a decomposing human (thanks to archaic european pre-funeral practices) and I've smelled decomposing animals. They do NOT smell the same. You have to have smelled a dead human to know what one smells like. You never forget it because it doesn't compare to anything else.

I've smelled it, too. Both scenbts, in fact.

You recognize human decomp at once, and never forget it.

Sometimes, you wish you could.

 

[Brini]

ITA...Virginia has a few old gold mines and I thought I would go by an area where there was a big operation early last century to see if I could get lucky....Anyway, in one of the reclaimed areas, a hunting club stockpiled all of the not so savory deer parts after dressing them there on the site-And that pile was the most pungent animal death I have smelled....In contrast to that smell, trash is absolutely nothing like it.

The only thing that you mentioned that I worry about is the oleic/other acids on the paper towel-There was a package of salami in that trash bag, and salami breaks down in a similar manner. Salami also has those fatty peices in it (lipids), you can imagine where I am going with that....

Link to everything you wanted to know about Salami...
http://cat.inist.fr/?aModele=afficheN&cpsidt=15474585

ETA-Apparently, as salami "ripens," those particular fatty acids are at higher levels, similar to when a human decomposes.

Salami would have a very different chemical signature than human decomp- no matter HOW spoiled.

 

[countzero]

I have not smelled a dead human body. that is why i am asking all these questions. I am finding that there are several people in here who have.

Maybe that is why so many people are convinced.

Not being snary here, but many of us have had the unfortunate experience of being exposed to a deceased body. It's not a post that many of us are willing to expand upon.

In any case, since you are a newbie, this link will help you understand better. [ame="http://www.websleuths.com/forums/forumdisplay.php?f=233"]Anthony Case Resource Links, Case Calendar and Time Line Analysis Forum - Websleuths Crime Sleuthing Community[/ame]

Also using the search key within this thread helps.

Be prepared to spend hours reading and taking notes. Even those who read them immediately after release have to go back to verify various docs.

Patty G is the keeper ..... and a darn excellent one. There is also a thread for questions and members will help you.

 

[Brini]

We have a lot of nurses on here that have stated the same thing. Maybe they will see this and weigh in. The dogs are specially trained so they can distinguish between human and animal decomp during their searches. A lot of info available on the internet about that. I learned a lot about cadaver and trailing dogs from the Laci Peterson case. That evidence was allowed in the trial.

Yep! And THIS nurse is one of them.

 

[BondJamesBond]

Apologies in advance for the drive-by posting...esp. if already covered ad nauseum...

Thought I recalled one of the statements made by LE to the media early on in the case that the stain in the trunk responded to black light exposure (luminol test).

However, IF I understood correctly that the stain was stated recently NOT to be the result of decomp fluid/blood (not sure if I understood that...or perhaps misread it, etc. :bang

So...curious 'bout how these two things could coexist I searched and found this article (link), which includes the following comment:

"Typically, luminol only shows investigators that there might be blood in an area, since other substances, including household bleach, can also cause the luminol to glow"

 

[Brini]

I have smelled a decomposing body and it is the kind of smell you would recognize instantly. It also clings, it gets in your hair, it gets in your clothing, it gets up into your nostrils, you have to use Oil of Wintergreen in your nostrils or you will smell it for days afterwards. Taking a shower helps, but it is still lingers on your skin.

On the other hand, my garbage can has some decaying meat in it and it's just characteristic garbage smell.

Cadaver dogs do not lie, they are not going to alert to any other substance,they are not in favor of the Prosecution or defense, and are not usually conspiring against an innocent defendant.

We used Vick's, under and in our nostrils.

Didn't help, all that much.

 

[cyberborg]

What is this about a BLOODSTAIN outline in the trunk? First I ever heard of a bloodstain. Can someone please comment? The source was Fox News.

Some media are mis-reporting, either because they have it plain wrong or want to further sensationalize the case against KC. No need.

The discovery shows that there was no discernable biological stain and thus, because there was no forensics to back up the stain outline they wanted to leave it to folks to make up their own mind on the viewable shape. It is speculative but powerful.

 

[Brini]

If you think about how a dog "marks" and identifies territory, they ( and animals) have much more heightened senses than humans. Recall how a dog or cat can travel all across the country to return to their "home." Humans can not do that. Aside from the fact that cadaver dogs are highly & specifically trained. The defense will push junk science. They and the Anthony team have no other options than to try and discredit anything the SA has. They have no evidence to support Casey's innocence.

Some cancer dogs can smell chemical changes consistent with cancer, even before the cell morph is observable.

One dog argued with a pathologist about a lesion. Based on the dog's continued insistence, THREE biopsies were run. The dog was right.

That same animal alerted to a melanotic lesion on a man who had come to test him. Guess the dog passed!

 

[Spangle]

Some cancer dogs can smell chemical changes consistent with cancer, even before the cell morph is observable.

One dog argued with a pathologist about a lesion. Based on the dog's continued insistence, THREE biopsies were run. The dog was right.

That same animal alerted to a melanotic lesion on a man who had come to test him. Guess the dog passed!

WE need more trained dogs like him. Tee hee.. Then line up the patients and walt the dog by them. for a quick preventive sniff..