State of Florida's Motion to Strike Defense Witness List

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Wow - that was actually a nice try on JB's part! Don't think it is going to work, but it was worth a shot. I have to think that one of the other members of his team came up with that - Perhaps Ms. Baden?

Alternative theory - JB was actually that lazy and didn't even realize what he was trying to do, other than not have to write down a whole bunch of names!:)

He's never heard of a copy machine?
 
I just had a thought that is making me do repeated mental sumersaults. I am not even sure if I can put into correct words, and I have no knowledge as to how these things work. If someone can understand what I am trying to get at and clear it up for me, I would appreciate it. Here goes....

ZG files defamation lawsuit with KC. Kc files a counter claim. KC is now exposed to a written deposition regarding ZG's case. Some of what may come out in that dep. could damage her defense case. My question is: Is there any way, because of this, that she could somehow, put herself in a position that she could be a future witness for the prosecution, as they try to prove to a jury the non exisistance of a nanny? I have no idea how these things work. Thanks in advance for any light someone could shed on that for me.

~Khaki
 
Bold mine.

I'm not sure he's actually done that. Has he stated in the media that they will go with the Zanny defense? Or some other defense?

last i heard they were sticking w/ the nanny, chilly.
 
I think the real problem that we are having with Baez is that he can't flaunt his experience like other defense attornies we have seen in past cases. He doesn't seem to be sneaky or overly arrogant. He hasn't jumped off the talking head couch at our favorite talk show hosts when they asked him a question or said his client was guilty.
Instead we are seeing a very laid back kind of defense attorney. He's made some major
errors in judgement and said some really off the wall things for a defense attorney, IMO, but he has said somethings that were 100% true - like his client is the most vilified person in America.

I'm anxiously awaiting the show tomorrow. Should be interesting.
 
Bold mine.

I'm not sure he's actually done that. Has he stated in the media that they will go with the Zanny defense? Or some other defense?

I'd have to review hours and hours of his many interviews with the press to get exactly what he said, and there is no way I could do that, but I recall many months ago posting on this very subject...I couldn't believe he was putting his client's story out there. Thankfully he's been relatively quiet of late and we have the likes of TL & BC taking his place.
 
I just had a thought that is making me do repeated mental sumersaults. I am not even sure if I can put into correct words, and I have no knowledge as to how these things work. If someone can understand what I am trying to get at and clear it up for me, I would appreciate it. Here goes....

ZG files defamation lawsuit with KC. Kc files a counter claim. KC is now exposed to a written deposition regarding ZG's case. Some of what may come out in that dep. could damage her defense case. My question is: Is there any way, because of this, that she could somehow, put herself in a position that she could be a future witness for the prosecution, as they try to prove to a jury the non exisistance of a nanny? I have no idea how these things work. Thanks in advance for any light someone could shed on that for me.

~Khaki

I think she is on the P's witness list. They will probably get evidence from her re her visit to Sawgrass, filling out the card, and get her to say she doesn't know Casey, and not much else.
 
I know people will hate me for saying this, but I have to say it!....

In my opinion, this is ridiculous. Sure, JB is inexperienced, and perhaps not very clever. But there is no way the Judge is not going to allow JB to rectify this, and IMO, it's a waste of court time and money for it to be argued. Why wouldn't the SA just pick up the phone and say "hey, I noticed you haven't amended your witness list to take into account our new witness list...I think you ought to get that done." Thousands of dollars and court time saved.

A good prosecutor doesn't take advantage of a defence lawyer's inexperience...they should be just as concerned that the accused gets a fair trial, after all, they work for the State.

Waste the courts time? Jose has wasted more of the courts time in 6 months than most attorneys would over the course of an entire career! And the reason they do not just "pick up the phone" is because this is a legal document and is a very central document in this case-the witness list-and therefore not to be taken lightly. The SA was absolutely within legal jurisprudence to motion to strike that list as it is incomplete and inaccurate and in the courts "ditto" just don't get it.:rolleyes: Not to mention that it is a dirty trick and needs to be called out into the light. The SA is not "taking advantage" of ole Baez-they have tried patiently, as the court has, to educate him in the letter of the law, but unfortunately he is not an attentive student. And just for the record, the state already had almost 180 witnesses or potential witnesses on its list before it was recently ammended...Baez filed his pitiful excuse for a witness list long ago and never did a thing with it that I know of since then. He listed NO experts, and except what? 3 people, there was nobody on the list...and again-ditto just won't do here, in a court of law.:waitasec:
 
That is what I was just thinking too...where is LKB? Is she just sitting back waiting for JB to flub it all so there may be grounds for appeal due to ineffective council? Surely that can't fly in any court of law.

Nah, she's just sitting there, signing ridiculous motions.:rolleyes:
 
I know people will hate me for saying this, but I have to say it!....

In my opinion, this is ridiculous. Sure, JB is inexperienced, and perhaps not very clever. But there is no way the Judge is not going to allow JB to rectify this, and IMO, it's a waste of court time and money for it to be argued. Why wouldn't the SA just pick up the phone and say "hey, I noticed you haven't amended your witness list to take into account our new witness list...I think you ought to get that done." Thousands of dollars and court time saved.

A good prosecutor doesn't take advantage of a defence lawyer's inexperience...they should be just as concerned that the accused gets a fair trial, after all, they work for the State.
I don't think that's the point if I'm reading the law correctly. The way I see it it is a ploy for Baez to be privy to the State's witnesses' testimony. Why would the State give the defense the amended list as well? They're moving to strike JB's for a reason. IMO it has nothing to do with being fair...'cause that sure isn't the impression I'm getting from Baez here.
 
I don't think that's the point if I'm reading the law correctly. The way I see it it is a ploy for Baez to be privy to the State's witnesses' testimony. Why would the State give the defense the amended list as well? They're moving to strike JB's for a reason. IMO it has nothing to do with being fair...'cause that sure isn't the impression I'm getting from Baez here.

I know it's not the American way, but I do prefer the UK situation where the Prosecutor doesn't interview their witnesses. They already have statements from the police from them and they are required to call them cold. Frankly, I think that is the fairest way to conduct a prosecution. And if there are going to be conferences with the witnesses, why shouldn't the defence be allowed to be in attendance, particularly if they will need to ask them questions also? It's not like in the movies where they pull out the incriminating evidence at the last minute....the defence is entitled to know, in advance, the evidence the SA will be leading against them. And sadly, not all prosecutors always behave honestly. I think you saw that in a case there recently where the prosecutor was prosecuted! We've had them jailed where I live too.

ETA...re your bolded part, Baez should be privy to the State's witnesses' testimony. That is why they have disclosure obligations.
 
Is Annie on the original witness list? If not what would this mean for JB?
 
Waste the courts time? Jose has wasted more of the courts time in 6 months than most attorneys would over the course of an entire career! And the reason they do not just "pick up the phone" is because this is a legal document and is a very central document in this case-the witness list-and therefore not to be taken lightly. The SA was absolutely within legal jurisprudence to motion to strike that list as it is incomplete and inaccurate and in the courts "ditto" just don't get it.:rolleyes: Not to mention that it is a dirty trick and needs to be called out into the light. The SA is not "taking advantage" of ole Baez-they have tried patiently, as the court has, to educate him in the letter of the law, but unfortunately he is not an attentive student. And just for the record, the state already had almost 180 witnesses or potential witnesses on its list before it was recently ammended...Baez filed his pitiful excuse for a witness list long ago and never did a thing with it that I know of since then. He listed NO experts, and except what? 3 people, there was nobody on the list...and again-ditto just won't do here, in a court of law.:waitasec:


With all due respect, I'm a bit confused as to why so many people here seem to think that everything lawyers say is the truth. It's an adversarial system. Each side has an argument, and the Judge determines the outcome in accordance with the law.

IMO, a lot of the documents JB has had to file motions to get, should have been provided voluntarily. He's been successful with pretty much every request he made.

IMO it's a waste of time, he'll be allowed to amend or file a new one.
 
Is Annie on the original witness list? If not what would this mean for JB?

She is on the original list.

Even if she wasn't, it means nothing. The Judge will allow JB to amend or file a new witness list. This case would be overturned on Appeal sooo quickly if he didn't.
 
Like my Granny always said "It's the blind leading the blind" when it comes to JB and KC




:waitasec:
 
Bunny I am in agreement with you. JB has filed productions requests, the State failed to produce and he had to file a motion to compel. The Judge ordered the State to produce, gave a time limit, it failed to produce so JB had to file another motion to compel because the State did not comply with the previous ruling of the court. The State argued that the case docket number changed when the charges against KC went from child neglect to murder one. Since JB's motions were filed in the original docket, they were moot. This was one excuse for the many delays on the part of the State. Others were "we don't have enough time, he didn't pay, we are trying to get it, we are working on it, don't know if we have that" yada, yada, ya. The SA had the audacity to dangle before him a "just finished today" CD which she indicated was in response to his request for all the tips, well, at least some of the tips, they were not quite finished getting them all onto a disk yet and JB had to pay $900 first. Now JB probably heard that for the first time right then and there and he obviously didn't come to court with enough cash because a "great" lawyer would have pulled the money out of her purse and asked the SA if she could make change and watch her stumble along to explain that she wasn't in charge of taking filing fees. But that aside, the information on the CD was hand selected to be nothing more than "psychic" dreams. Don't even try to tell me they aren't playing games with JB.

Sure, JB should have re-filed his discovery into the new docket, as soon as the murder case was assigned a number but the State had been served with the requests months prior to KC being indicted (resulting in a new docket number) and did not respond.

A great legal secretary would automatically print out another set of discovery with the new docket number and put it on his desk as soon as the first state document arrived at the office.

This is not a fatal error by any means. No judge would prevent a defendant in a murder case from presenting witnesses. It would be immediately reversed and the judge would be ordered to allow the witnesses to be called. Big slap in the face from the brethren at the Appellate Court.

JB just has to get someone to type up the list the State filed and add his own witnesses. No harm, no foul. End of story.

How does JB handle this case, teach school, etc. etc.? Like all attorneys. There is never just one case going on, there may be hundreds of live files all in different stages of prep for trial concerning any number of civil, criminal, family, bankruptcy, estate, you name it, cases. The real focus on the case is at the very beginning and maybe a week or so before trial. In the meantime, you learn everything about the case and somehow remember the details and facts of them all and work them all towards trial.
 
Bold mine.

I'm not sure he's actually done that. Has he stated in the media that they will go with the Zanny defense? Or some other defense?

If he (JB) has, I sure missed it....

Only comment I recall , JB says, KC has a "compelling story" (to tell ?).

I've never heard what this "compelling story" refers to.
 
Bunny I am in agreement with you. JB has filed productions requests, the State failed to produce and he had to file a motion to compel. The Judge ordered the State to produce, gave a time limit, it failed to produce so JB had to file another motion to compel because the State did not comply with the previous ruling of the court. The State argued that the case docket number changed when the charges against KC went from child neglect to murder one. Since JB's motions were filed in the original docket, they were moot. This was one excuse for the many delays on the part of the State. Others were "we don't have enough time, he didn't pay, we are trying to get it, we are working on it, don't know if we have that" yada, yada, ya. The SA had the audacity to dangle before him a "just finished today" CD which she indicated was in response to his request for all the tips, well, at least some of the tips, they were not quite finished getting them all onto a disk yet and JB had to pay $900 first. Now JB probably heard that for the first time right then and there and he obviously didn't come to court with enough cash because a "great" lawyer would have pulled the money out of her purse and asked the SA if she could make change and watch her stumble along to explain that she wasn't in charge of taking filing fees. But that aside, the information on the CD was hand selected to be nothing more than "psychic" dreams. Don't even try to tell me they aren't playing games with JB.

Sure, JB should have re-filed his discovery into the new docket, as soon as the murder case was assigned a number but the State had been served with the requests months prior to KC being indicted (resulting in a new docket number) and did not respond.

A great legal secretary would automatically print out another set of discovery with the new docket number and put it on his desk as soon as the first state document arrived at the office.

This is not a fatal error by any means. No judge would prevent a defendant in a murder case from presenting witnesses. It would be immediately reversed and the judge would be ordered to allow the witnesses to be called. Big slap in the face from the brethren at the Appellate Court.

JB just has to get someone to type up the list the State filed and add his own witnesses. No harm, no foul. End of story.

How does JB handle this case, teach school, etc. etc.? Like all attorneys. There is never just one case going on, there may be hundreds of live files all in different stages of prep for trial concerning any number of civil, criminal, family, bankruptcy, estate, you name it, cases. The real focus on the case is at the very beginning and maybe a week or so before trial. In the meantime, you learn everything about the case and somehow remember the details and facts of them all and work them all towards trial.

The games are going both ways.

As for the $900, JB should pay for what he requested. Other wise, we the tax payers have to pay for it. As a tax payer, I object. We are hurting down here as it is.
 
In most cases the prosecution and the defense do communicate in an effort to iron out all of the wrinkles before trial. I won't go so far as to say they work "together" but in some cases (not this one) they will even go that far to settle out of court and such. I think that even if the prosecution did call JB up on the phone to point out errors-He would be very indignant and tell them to take it up with the court. He's been a lawyer all of 3 yrs?? This case is the biggest thing that has ever happened to him in his whole life! Much like his client, he doesn't mind the attention-even negative (except for that bit with the BAR and only because it threatened his position as KCs lawyer).
 

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