student kills self after webcam spying UPDATE: Conviction Overturned

[Steely Dan]

http://www.nj.com/news/index.ssf/2012/03/rutgers_webcam_trial_ravi_dele.html

Thank you, just when I thought I couldn't like this guy less. I can't believe so many kids participated in this.

 

[Nova]

Sorry Nova, I have to disagree with you here- Ravi tweeted that he was having the viewing parties to "keep the gays away". He planned on webcasting it. It was his intent that was important, not whether it actually happened.

Since when is "intent" a crime rather than "what happened"? That's exactly the misconception about hate crime laws that causes people to resent them: the idea that the government is making "thought" illegal.

I admit I'm coming to this case late, but as near as I can tell, there were no "viewing parties". At the most, there were a few lame jokes about such things.

The violinist searched for a sex partner on line and then entertained him openly in a dorm room (no crime in either case), thus revealing both his sexuality and his date to others in the dorm. If he later had remorse for doing so (and he didn't say even that), who's to say it was because of Ravi's tweets?

 

[Nova]

I just want to state that DRavi DELETED some 55 texts between him and Michelle Haung and another some 31 texts between him and Molly Wei …. Prosecutors said DRavi allegedly deleted text messages and tweets to cover his tracks.

I just want to say with all that DELETING … I don't think anyone can really say what DRavi thought about TC and his being gay with ALL THOSE texts and tweets deleted. JMHO.

What did THOSE missing texts and tweets exactly say???

Are you sure LE can find that texts/tweets were deleted, but can't recover the lost text? I don't know, but that would surprise me.

ETA: Per your link at post #682, LE DID recover the deleted text messages and showed the "worst" ones to the jury.

In the TV interview ziggy mentions above, Ravi admits he deleted the texts and tweets, but says he did so because he thought he was in violation of university regulations re privacy, not because he thought he had committed a hate crime. I haven't read them all, obviously, but that is what he says. The female roommate who first looked at the webcam with him agreed (on the witness stand) that Ravi was not homophobic.

 

[Nova]

Thank you, just when I thought I couldn't like this guy less. I can't believe so many kids participated in this.

Dan, I have a niece and nephew in college. I am continually shocked at what their friends post openly and their complete lack of any sense of privacy. (Kids of all races and sexualities seem to find openly racist and homophobic humor amusing.)

For the moment, the grandkids are young enough their parents won't let them use twitter or FB. I shudder to think what lies ahead...

 

[zippitydoda]

Since when is "intent" a crime rather than "what happened"? That's exactly the misconception about hate crime laws that causes people to resent them: the idea that the government is making "thought" illegal.

I admit I'm coming to this case late, but as near as I can tell, there were no "viewing parties". At the most, there were a few lame jokes about such things.

The violinist searched for a sex partner on line and then entertained him openly in a dorm room (no crime in either case), thus revealing both his sexuality and his date to others in the dorm. If he later had remorse for doing so (and he didn't say even that), who's to say it was because of Ravi's tweets?

Hi Nova

It was Dharun Ravi's actions, not his thoughts, that got him convicted.

http://www.nj.com/news/index.ssf/2012/02/juror_excused_just_before_open.html

There was one viewing, and several people have admitted to watching the first web stream. The 2nd planned "viewing" was thwarted by Tyler, who unplugged Ravi's computer when he saw the web camera pointed at his bed. Ravi had tweeted this 2nd viewing as a "viewing party" to his 150 followers - daring them to ichat and watch his surreptitious web stream of Tyler & MB.

 

[zippitydoda]

Dan, I have a niece and nephew in college. I am continually shocked at what their friends post openly and their complete lack of any sense of privacy. (Kids of all races and sexualities seem to find openly racist and homophobic humor amusing.)

For the moment, the grandkids are young enough their parents won't let them use twitter or FB. I shudder to think what lies ahead...

I agree, there seems to be no moral filter when it comes to social media. Its one thing to mutter to one's self, its another to announce these things to the world via FB, tweeter and other social media sites.

 

[buffetoflies]

Did anyone happen to see 20/20 last night with Ravi? I thought it was a well done piece. Ravi is not bias. I can't imagine I'd want two guys having sex on my bed so I might want to keep the gays away, gays meaning the two people about to do sexual things in my room. That does not make me a hate filled bigot.

IMO that depends, actually. Would you care if it was him and a chick? If not, than imo that does make you a hate filled bigot.

*I haven't followed this case on these forums. Or any forums really. Also, nothing personal meant against mr/ms ziggy!

 

[Nova]

Hi Nova

It was Dharun Ravi's actions, not his thoughts, that got him convicted.

http://www.nj.com/news/index.ssf/2012/02/juror_excused_just_before_open.html

There was one viewing, and several people have admitted to watching the first web stream. The 2nd planned "viewing" was thwarted by Tyler, who unplugged Ravi's computer when he saw the web camera pointed at his bed. Ravi had tweeted this 2nd viewing as a "viewing party" to his 150 followers - daring them to ichat and watch his surreptitious web stream of Tyler & MB.

Thank you, zip. The 20/20 program I watched specifically denied some of those allegations as media myths, so at this point I really don't know what the facts of the case are.

I do believe that hate-crime laws are necessary where crimes against minorities have not been prosecuted equally by police, prosecutors and judges.

But I don't see what we accomplish by making it illegal to be a jerk. Nor what we achieve by putting a teenager in prison for 10 years for misusing technology.

 

[zippitydoda]

Thank you, zip. The 20/20 program I watched specifically denied some of those allegations as media myths, so at this point I really don't know what the facts of the case are.

I do believe that hate-crime laws are necessary where crimes against minorities have not been prosecuted equally by police, prosecutors and judges.

But I don't see what we accomplish by making it illegal to be a jerk. Nor what we achieve by putting a teenager in prison for 10 years for misusing technology.

Hi Nova,

If we locked up jerks, half our country would become a prison overnight. This went far past jerk IMO, but to each his own.

DR has yet to be sentenced yet, and I doubt he'll get 10 years.

This was not a one time, spur of the moment, sorry about that, my bad type of crime. It was well thought out staking, designed to humilate and control another human being. Sometimes the punches we take on the inside can hurt more than those on we take on the outside.

One could hope that the national attention this case received will deliver a message to those who would seek use social media to futher their criminal acts. Just because you think you deleted your trail and covered your tracks - the internet is forever.

 

[zippitydoda]

Prosecutor's Office: Ravi 'shows no remorse' and should be sentenced to prison.

Ravi, of Plainsboro, faces up to 10 years in prison, though both sides agree that is highly unlikely. He also faces deportation

http://www.nj.com/news/index.ssf/2012/05/prosecutors_office_ravi_shows.html

Link also contains the 14-page memorandum submitted Thursday to Superior Court Judge Glenn Berman, First Assistant Prosecutor Julia McClure did not request a specific jail term but instead was seeking "merely what the New Jersey sentencing statutes and relevant case law mandate and the facts in this matter demand."

 

[Jacie Estes]

Protesters: No jail for ex-student in webcam case

At some point Ravi has to grow the f up, at least he has his mommy to beg for him.

What does Tyler have?

I have said it before, Ravi is where he is because of his actions, nothing more, nothing less. 10 years is extreme but he should not get to walk on this case. Deport him and make him wait 10 years to come back; he will learn there are consequences for his actions. IMHO

In Tyler's honor, I have joined the local chapter of GLSEN; I hope that the bullying and the suicides will stop. They have to stop, we are losing too many precious people like Tyler.

http://www.glsen.org/cgi-bin/iowa/all/home/index.html


Several hundred protesters gathered Monday at the New Jersey State House to show support for a former Rutgers student convicted of bias intimidation and to call attention to what they see as injustices in New Jersey's hate-crime laws.

His mother, Sabitha Ravi, addressed the crowd, telling them she believes the media should help her son. "They know he didn't get a fair trial," she said.

Ravi's supporters see him as a symbol, too _ of the justice system gone awry in search of someone to blame.
Read more: http://rapidcityjournal.com/news/na...17a-5d75-921d-bf75d8ed605a.html#ixzz1usgP1Aa0

 

[zippitydoda]

FYI, this area of NJ, Middlesex County, where Dharun Ravi committed his bias-based crimes, has the highest percentage of Indian Americans of any place in the country.

http://www.newjerseymunicipalcourtlawyerblog.com/2012/02/

More than 100 rally in support of Dharun Ravi at Statehouse

http://www.nj.com/news/index.ssf/2012/05/more_than_100_rally_in_support.html

Other articles noted several hundered people showed up - such fibbers these reporters. I saw some of it on the local news - it looked like 20 to 30 people to me.

 

[CarolinaMoon]

For those protestors, I would ask them to review the the law Ravi was convicted on. During deliberations, the jury asked for an explanation of bias intimidation. It was the only question they asked.

Judge Bermann read the pertinent jury instructions about the law to them. At the time, as I was listening and noted in my post #491 on this thread:

As I listen to the judge explain the charges, I keep checking mental boxes, "He did that." and "He did that." Ravi could be total toast considering the explanation of bias. He may go down 100%.

I should have noted at the time that there were a couple of "He didn't do that."

When the jury returned with the verdict, it turned out they agreed with my assessment of the situation 100%.

I wasn't clairvoyant. It all fit the law. Like it or not, it can be illegal to be a jerk. Ravi still doesn't seem to grasp the ramifications of his actions in the least, based on his post-trial interviews.

I'm predicting (ok, now I'm being clairvoyant) that the judge will sentence him to time in prison. Ravi had a chance to own up to his actions and serve no time and hape help with ICE. He turned it down and went with the "I'm just a young, stupid jerk" defense. It didn't work.

Nobody wants Ravi in prison for 10 years. If the judge were to want to help Ravi, he would sentence him to the 10 years and then suspend all but one or two years. He would then be on probation for eight to nine years, which would allow him to stay in the country and live a model life and get an education. I'm not sure that would happen, though.

We will know in 10 days.

 

[LiveLaughLuv]

Coming into this thread late...Ravi doesn't get it, never will, is my belief...

He and his supporters took to the streets in protest of DR impending sentencing...they are asking, no demanding for no jail time...so, I would tell DR, he should have taken that plea deal in which there would be no prison time and the prosecutor would have helped in not getting his *advertiser censored* deported..but since he took this to trial and lost, he needs to own up to his actions and take it like a man..it's too late now to cry over spilt milk...he took a chance and lost, like many in the judicial system..Sorry, DR...you did this, no one else...

The prosecutor will be there to inform the judge how unremorseful this guy continues to be...they will ask for whatever the statute provides..

Justice for Tyler

 

[KaraKitty]

We will know in 10 days.

CM, I noticed your post is dated 5/15/12.

I just read an article that stated RAVI will be sentenced on Monday, May 21, 2012. Not on 5/25/12. OK.


http://www.nj.com/news/index.ssf/2012/05/prosecutors_office_ravi_shows.html

 

[CarolinaMoon]

CM, I noticed your post is dated 5/15/12.

I just read an article that stated RAVI will be sentenced on Monday, May 21, 2012. Not on 5/25/12. OK.


http://www.nj.com/news/index.ssf/2012/05/prosecutors_office_ravi_shows.html

Could someone please teach me how to count? :what: The sentencing will take place at 9 AM.

In a discussion on InSession yesterday, it was stated that in NJ, once a person is convicted of a crime punishable by prison time, they get prison time.

 

[jjenny]

Could someone please teach me how to count? :what: The sentencing will take place at 9 AM.

In a discussion on InSession yesterday, it was stated that in NJ, once a person is convicted of a crime punishable by prison time, they get prison time.

Should have taken that sweet deal he was offered. No prison time, help with deportation.

 

[zippitydoda]

Dharun Ravi faces prison in bias case, but could be free on appeal

http://www.nj.com/news/index.ssf/2012/05/dharun_ravi_faces_prison_in_bi.html

 

[KaraKitty]

Could someone please teach me how to count? :what:

No worries…happens to the best of us.

Yes, reading InSession on FB, they will be covering it starting at 9am Monday.

 

[CarolinaMoon]

I'm watching the sentencing hearing now. The courtroom is packed. This is the first time I've seen Ravi with eyes wide open. It's sort of a deer-in-the headlights look.

Judge Berman began by speaking to the briefs by both sides, pointing out errors. There is also a box of petitions to President Obama and Governor Christie asking for a pardon. He pointed out that the President has no jurisdiction on this and the governor does. He will not consider them in the hearing.

Right now, they are in an extended side-bar where I believe, among other things, the defense is asking that a different lawyer speak. I could be wrong on that, though.