Stungun marks

[Shylock]

Originally posted by BlueCrab
But the proper way to measure marks such as these is from center line to center line of the twin marks. In other words, from the middle of one mark to the middle of the second mark.

You must have a bent ruler, BlueCrab. The difference between measuring center-to-center is the same as the difference when measuring between inside edges. That was VERY easy to see and measure with the naked eye. Besides, where do you get the idea that there is a "proper way" to measure stun gun marks? Stun gun prongs are stationary objects, measuring inside, outside, or centers, isn't going to change them dimensionally or the marks they leave.
I think you're barking up the wrong tree trying to say the use of a stun gun indicates Burke was involved. There is plenty of other evidence that shows Burke is a valid suspect. Just the fact that he had the ability and opportunity to cause SOME of the injuries she sustained puts him in the top three.

JMHO

 

[Imon128]

There was no stun gun use, IMO.

 

[Shylock]

Originally posted by tipper
But didn't he also say he'd be willing to testify that "with a reasonable degree of medical certainty" that they were from a stun-gun?

Yes he did. So what does THAT tell you, Tipper? It's appears that Mr. Doberson's opinion changes with the wind--or more accurately, changes to whatever gets him the most publicity at the time.
One minute you "can't tell from photographs", the next minute he has a "certainty". Talk about impeaching yourself....sheeesh.

 

[Imon128]

It's not fathonable to me that any forensic person could tell with certainty of a fact, on pics alone. There was/is no reason that JB wasn't exhumed to put this baby to rest, IMO.

 

[Britt]

Originally posted by Shylock
There is plenty of other evidence that shows Burke is a valid suspect.

That's right, Shylock, not the least of which is the fact that he had previously smacked JonBenét in the face with a golf club.

Originally posted by Ivy
Anyway, whether a stun gun was used on JonBenet is neither here nor there as far as determining who the killer is.

Exactly, Ivy, and I was just about to point this out for the umpteenth time when you beat me to it... lol. A stun gun is not exculpatory for a Ramsey, especially considering the video with stun gun info found in the home.

 

[Toth]

That darned video was a Spanish Language promotional video, roughly equivalent to junk mail, that had been tossed on the shelf and not watched. It was merely a segment of an overall security video.

 

[Ivy]

Toth, that doesn't change the fact that John went to the "spy shop" and after window shopping, accepted the stun gun video from a clerk. How can that be considered exculpatory?

 

[Shylock]

Yeah Toth, I keep all the "Spanish Language promotional" material I receive laying around MY house too! I'll bet you also do the same, right?

This stungun myth was created by the deLOUsional for the simple minded, grab at any straw, Ramsey supporters. I guess we should consider ourselves lucky that the marks on her back are not larger and further apart, or instead of "stunguns" we would be talking "pitchforks". And of course the Ramseys would be innocent because neither John or Patsy owned a pitchfork. (What's that? Did someone say Patsy was in posession of a spanish language gardening catalog???.....LOL)

 

[Imon128]

OOooh, chicicta Rrrramsey, esta muy bonito. LOL LOL LOL Isn't that what the senora wishes to hear? LOL


That a stun gun video (hablan espanol or not) was found in the R's home, negates stun gun usage by an intruder, along with no verification of stun gun marks on JB's body. Hasta la vista, baaaaybee.

 

[BlueCrab]

There IS a proper way and an improper way to measure a distance between two injuries (the stun gun marks) when the distance between the two injuries must later be compared to a weapon with two prongs (the stun gun).

Injuries to the skin can increase slightly in size soon after they are inflicted.

The measurements must be center line to center line because the injuries can each darken, grow roundish, and expand several cm larger in diameter than the rectangular prongs on the stun gun that originally caused the injuries.

Therefore, if not measured center line to center line, the distance measured between the edges of the two injuries that each expanded in size will be less than the distant measured between the edges of the two prongs on the stun gun which, of course, remained the same distance apart.

And this is why Cutter got two different results when he compared the distance between the two injuries on JonBenet to the distance between the two prongs on the stun gun. He measured from the edges instead of from the center lines.

When measured properly the stun gun injuries on JonBenet appear to match the prongs of a Taser brand stun gun.

Just my opinion.

BlueCrab

 

[Toth]

>This stungun myth was created by the deLOUsional for the
>simple minded, grab at any straw, Ramsey supporters.
Simple minded, refuse any analysis or common-sense No-Stun-gun theorists cling tenaciously to 'two mosquitoes trained to bite a certain distance apart'.

>What's that? Did someone say Patsy was in posession of a
>spanish language gardening catalog???
Why? Are you now claiming that she wanted to grow stun guns and harvest them each Autumn?

 

[Sabrina]

I don't think the video was any big deal.

I do not think the marks look anything like the stun gun marks on the pigs or that other person whose photo was posted.

In addition, stating that a stun gun was used for certain is false. It has never been conclusively proven.

 

[BlueCrab]

Sabrina,

No one has been able to satisfactorily explain the source for the twin burn-like injuries on JonBenet that measure about 1 3/8 inches apart, the same distance apart as the prongs on an Air Taser stun gun; and left twin marks the same rectangular size as the twin rectangular prongs of an Air Taser brand stun gun -- other than those of us who believe the marks were likely from a stun gun.

If it looks like a duck, quacks like a duck, and waddles like a duck .....

Just my opinion.

BlueCrab

 

[Shylock]

Originally posted by BlueCrab
No one has been able to satisfactorily explain the source for the twin burn-like injuries on JonBenet that measure about 1 3/8 inches apart

Wrong - I have. Check the distance the marks are located on her back against the length of the cord on the garrote. The marks on her back were caused by the jabbing of the broken paint stick as it was jerked downward to tighten the cord around her neck.

And BlueCrab, besides getting the measurements wrong, you didn't read the autopsy. The marks are ABRASIONS, not "burn-like injuries". Stunguns don't make abrasions.

JMO

 

[K777angel]

The coroner would have described those marks on JonBenet as something OTHER than "abrasions" (as he did) if they were truly injuries from a stun gun.
They were not.

If the Ramseys really believed that JonBenet was attacked with a stun gun and proof of this would once and for all help exonerate them, they would have allowed - no INSISTED - that her body be exhumed right away and tested.
Don't give me the song and dance about "not disturbing her body." It won't fly. This is serious stuff and it should have been done.
The Ramseys did not want her to be tested. They knew a stun gun was never used on her. Best to leave that question hanging as a "possibility" than to have it be proven false.

 

[BlueCrab]

Shylock,

Dr. John Meyer, the coroner who examined the body in detail during the autopsy, called the marks on JonBenet "abrasions" in the autopsy report but later, after obtaining more information, concluded the marks were consistent with a stun gun.

Dr. Robert Deters, a pathologist who had previous experience examining an infant who had been murdered and also stungunned, agreed the marks on JonBenet were consistent with a stun gun injury.

Dr. Michael Dobersen, the coroner for Arapahoe County in Colorado and considered the nation's foremost expert on stun gun injuries, stated he is ready to testify that the marks on JonBenet were likely from a stun gun.

Just my opinion.

BlueCrab

 

[Ivy]

Dr. Meyer was the only one of the three who examined JonBenet's body. When he later said the marks were consistent with stun gun marks, on what did he base his opinion? Photos of those poor, dead, zapped pigs?

I'll ask it again...what difference does it make to the case whether JonBenet was zapped with a stun gun? Anyone could have done it.

 

[BlueCrab]

Dr. Meyer was the only one of the three who examined JonBenet's body. When he later said the marks were consistent with stun gun marks, on what did he base his opinion? Photos of those poor, dead, zapped pigs?

I'll ask it again...what difference does it make to the case whether JonBenet was zapped with a stun gun? Anyone could have done it.

Ivy,

In my opinion, finding out whether or not JonBenet was stungunned is extremely important. If a stun gun was used it would change the killing from a possible accidental death that's being covered up, to a first degree murder.

The stun gun would have been used to either try to violently control JonBenet or to fiendishly torture her.

In my opinion the physical evidence at the crime scene, the bizarre and brazen behavior of the perp in the occupied house, and the obvious coverup being carried out by the Ramseys, tell me a Ramsey is somehow involved in the death of JonBenet. There is also evidence that a fifth person, who would had to have been a relative or a close friend of a Ramsey, may also have been in the house on the night of the murder.

John and Patsy have exculpatory evidence in their favor (DNA, handwriting, and lie detector exams) and therefore are not likely to have been involved directly in the killing. That leaves Burke and the fifth person who may have been in the house.

If a stun gun was used on JonBenet my BDI theory would change from being an accidental death to being a vicious murder.

Just my opinion.

BlueCrab

 

[haypaula]

I have followed this case actively and recall a brief mention of a video cassette being in the Ramsey home re a stungun and its operational use. This was way back when Geraldo Rivera had his own show on CNBC and was discussing this case at great length. It has since never been mentioned again.

A stungun would be a way to quiet and control someone so I do believe it was used.

I have always believed that either John or Burke had been sexually abusing JonBenet for some time but something went terribly wrong on Christmas Eve. I don't believe her murder was intentional but I do feel Patsy was involved in the coverup and wrote the "ransom note".

 

[Maxi]

I thought the jist of Meyer's statement was that it was possible that the marks were from a stungun. Didn't he say something like he didn't have the expertise to make a determination? Do we have the actual quote from Meyer?