Stungun marks

[BlueCrab]

There's a good chance the Ramseys owned a stun gun. The Ramseys were in Miami and visited a shop that sells stun guns. Patsy admits they walked out of the shop carrying a stun gun video from Spy World, but she "don't recall purchasing anything there."

Why didn't Patsy just say "No! We didn't buy a stun gun." Why the "don't recall" routine? If they had bought a stun gun or didn't buy a stun gun Patsy, IMO, would have remembered it.

Just my opinion.

BlueCrab

 

[Toth]

Do the Ramseys strike you as the kind of couple who would buy a stun gun? Would this be to go with their metal-studded leather outfits and whips and chain collection? I've heard they once walked into a music store too; do you think they bought heavy metal underground lyrics about killing kids?

 

[Sabrina]

Toth, I do not believe the Ramseys owned a stun gun, NOR do I believe the marks on JonBenet were stun gun marks.

They look nothing like the pig marks.

This is a big myth perpetrated by Lou Smit and picked up by the Ramsey Spin Team.

It IS NOT proven and HAS NEVER been scientifically proven to be a fact. Anyone who says it has is lying.

 

[BlueCrab]

There's a lot more to it than just the evidence of the Ramseys possibly purchasing a stun gun in Miami. There's also the crime scene evidence bolstering the possibility that a stun gun was likely already in the house on the night of the crime.

There are, IMO and in the opinion of experts, stun gun marks on the body of JonBenet. If so, then there was a stun in the house on the night of the murder. So where's the stun gun now?

The gun wasn't found in the house. Therefore it, and the other missing items of evidence, had to have been taken out of the house by a FIFTH PERSON in the house that night.

The obvious Ramsey lies and coverup actions almost guarantee that fifth person is either a relative or a VERY close friend of the family. The Ramseys wouldn't lie and cover up for a stranger who had intruded into the house and killed JonBenet. So the fifth person in the house that night had been invited in by a Ramsey. Because of the language used in the ransom note I think that person was a teen.

Just my opinion.

BlueCrab

 

[Toth]

Toth, I do not believe the Ramseys owned a stun gun, NOR do I believe the marks on JonBenet were stun gun marks.
It IS NOT proven and HAS NEVER been scientifically proven to be a fact. Anyone who says it has is lying.

I told you: its the bites of two mosquitoes who were trained to always bite a certain set distance apart!
Scientifically proven? Radio wave propagation is still a theory too, its not been proven: but I turn the switch and hear the news anyway.

 

[little1]

>I believe it was Lou Smit's idea of a stun gun.
Actually Trip DeMuth and Lou Smit were going over the evidence together and each came to the same conclusion at that time.
> He concluded this from a photo.
Which is legally sufficient for an expert to base an opinion. A forensic pathologist does not need to examine tissue to form an opinion that a stun gun was used.
>I don't believe in the 'stun gun' theory.
I assume therefore that you are an adherent of the "Two well-trained Mosquitoes" theory.

Ted Bundy was tried in the 80's and was convicted on photo evidence of teeth marks.

 

[Ivy]

Originally posted by Toth
Radio wave propagation is still a theory too, its not been proven...

What? Who told you that, Toth? Lin Wood? lol

http://www.ecjones.org/physics.html

If the Ramseys believed a stun gun was used, they'd have insisted that JonBenet's body be exhumed.

 

[Maxi]

Speaking of teeth marks, I still think the marks on JBR look an awful lot like the bite marks my daughter had on her leg.

Not to start an outrageous theory going, but some people file their teeth to points. Some very strange people.

 

[WolfmarsGirl]

Oh, boy...Y'all always bring me out of the proverbial woodwork (and out of 'real life') when you talk about the blessed 'stun gun.' :doh:

Ok, here it goes. What I believe:

I think Patsy killed JBR by accident. I think, after the child was injured and appeared to be dead, Patsy picked up JB, held her to her bossom and rocked and squeezed her. Of course, I think Patsy was hysterical at this point, so she held onto JB for too long and squeezed too hard.

I think Patsy was wearing rings on both hands. I think the marks on JB's body look exactly like the marks I made on my own hands with two rings on my other hand. I didn't even have to squeeze much to cause the purplish marks on myself.

The abrasions on JB's body occur in precisely the same spot where an adult's hands would end up on a child's body if an adult were holding a child of JB's size in a rocking position on the adult's lap. I held my daughter in the same way just to check where my hands end up naturally and BINGO my fingers on my right hand fell over her right cheek and ear. My left hand held her at the same location and angle as JB's 'stun gun' marks on her back. Try this at home with your child. Your hands will land precisely where mine did.

If only the location was the same and not the angle, I might not be so convinced. But, the angles are nearly exact, from what I can tell from the autopsy photos.

What's more is the fact that my fingers naturally fall about the same distance apart as the 'stun gun' marks.

I am convinced these marks are from rings and not from a stun gun. A four-pronged stone will produce a square or rectangular mark, even if the stone is round.

I will post photos of my hand if anyone has not seen them already.

 

[Britt]

I am convinced these marks are from rings and not from a stun gun. A four-pronged stone will produce a square or rectangular mark, even if the stone is round.

Excellent theory, WolfmarsGirl, explaining the abrasions ("abrasions" per the coroner, Dr. Meyer). I think you're right on here, and we even have that huge NE photo showing Patsy and her backward rings (National Enquirer, December 3, 2002, page 49), which supports your theory.

 

[sissi]

http://www.paktronix.com/lewis95.html

an interesting read

 

[WolfmarsGirl]

Excellent theory, WolfmarsGirl, explaining the abrasions ("abrasions" per the coroner, Dr. Meyer). I think you're right on here, and we even have that huge NE photo showing Patsy and her backward rings (National Enquirer, December 3, 2002, page 49), which supports your theory.

Thanks Britt

I think I did see the photo you are talking about. My rings turn up backwards quite a bit too. I guess the fat around the bottom of my fingers has a smaller circumference than my knuckles, lol, so the rings twist all the time.

I think this is a very possible theory and I wonder if investigators have looked into it (or will in the future). I think the Ramsey's might have conveniently lost some of the rings in that mysterious robbery. Oh, well...

 

[K777angel]

Interesting theory WolfmarsGirl! I recall one famous doctor called in to help analyze the medical facts of the case, (not sure who it was now), suggested the marks on JonBenet looked to him like impressions made from a clothing snap. A ring might look very similar depending on the style.

I have to add that Patsy's grief over realizing JonBenet had been accidentally killed doesn't necessarily mean it was HER who had accidentally killed her.
It could have been Burke. Her reaction of sorrow and grief and shock would have been there just the same. And her drive to cover up the crime would have occured either way.~

 

[Ivy]

originally posted by K777angel
I recall one famous doctor called in to help analyze the medical facts of the case, (not sure who it was now), suggested the marks on JonBenet looked to him like impressions made from a clothing snap.

I believe that was Dr. Werner Spitz. Also, in a TV documentary, Spitz performed experiments in which he struck human skulls with objects, including a Maglite like the Ramseys'. The fracture he caused using the Maglite was identical to JonBenet's skull fracture. In addition, Spitz demonstrated that the head of the Maglite fit the depression to a T.

 

[LovelyPigeon]

The type of stun gun that is consistent with the shape and size of the pairs of marks on JonBenét's body is one that had to be registered at sale in and before 1996. That makes it very unlikely to be connected with a Ramsey. Sales of that particular model stun gun, an AirTaser, were checked way back when.

There is at least one qualified expert who is willing to testify under oath that the 2 pairs of marks on JonBenét are consistent with marks left by stun guns. He has done research and has testified in at least one trial about marks on a body that were created by stun gun. He is Dr Micheal Doberson and was consulted by the BPD in the JBR case.

Exhuming a body is not necessary to establish legal, expert testimony in a trial. Since JonBenét's death, there have been precedents set in American courts to identify marks on corpses as created by stun guns, using only photographic evidence rather than tissue evidence or exhuming bodies.

If a suspect with access or possesion of a stun gun is ever arrested for JonBenét's death there will be no question that expert testimony is available to establish the marks on her body were created by stun gun. Will there be expert testimony to the contrary? That is a *wait and see*.

 

[why_nutt]

If a suspect with access or possesion of a stun gun is ever arrested for JonBenét's death there will be no question that expert testimony is available to establish the marks on her body were created by stun gun. Will there be expert testimony to the contrary? That is a *wait and see*.

Come on. You saw the Westerfield trial. It will be the bug testimony all over again.

 

[LovelyPigeon]

Come on. You saw the Westerfield trial. It will be the bug testimony all over again.

I have not idea if it will or not.

No matter who is eventually tried for JonBenét's murder, unless they have/had proven access to a stun gun, the issue may never even arise.

 

[Toth]

The type of stun gun that is consistent with the shape and size of the pairs of marks on JonBenét's body is one that had to be registered at sale in and before 1996.

In Colorado? Nationally? Was there a 'black market'?

 

[LovelyPigeon]

In Colorado? Nationally? Was there a 'black market'?

Hi there, Toth. Lou Smit said in one of his interviews that AirTaser sales were checked out and the R's never bought one. I don't know if that was state or national but I'll guess national. The AirTaser way back when was a very pricey item...about $300 as I recall.

Blackmarket? could be but I wouldn't expect the R's to purchase one on black market.

Whether one wants to believe the marks were made by stun gun or not, there is at least one expert who is willing to state under oath, based on his research and experience, that the marks were made by stun gun. Dr Doberson will have the research to support his belief, and no doubt, photographic evidence to make his case.

And again, unless there is a stun gun found to connect to a suspect charged, there won't be a stun gun issue at a trial.

 

[Shylock]

The type of stun gun that is consistent with the shape and size of the pairs of marks on JonBenét's body is one that had to be registered at sale in and before 1996. That makes it very unlikely to be connected with a Ramsey. Sales of that particular model stun gun, an AirTaser, were checked way back when.

More misinformation that probably originated on the swamp. AT NO TIME did the Air Taser hand held model have to be registered! The "DART MODEL" Air Taser is the one that is registered at purchase. NOT THE HAND HELD MODEL! You can, (and have always be able to) buy the hand held model over the net and have it sent to a P.O. Box if you want.
(Not that I believe the Ramseys owned one - but they could have owned twenty of the damn things and nobody would know about it.)

Additionally, Smit is ON RECORD as saying he is no longer sure it was an Air Taser. (Larry King Live)

And Doberson will never see the inside of a courtroom. The fool has already impeached himself. He's on record as saying you CAN'T TELL if a stun gun was used by a photograph--now he says he can. The only question that remains is: Can Doberson wave his hand in the air and say, "I'm an idiot who will say anything for public attention!"?

JMO/IMO