Subornation of Perjury and Jose Baez

[rbrnmw2]

I just got to thinking I think it was about him saying his mother send the Pi's into the woods.

Lee testifying last week that he was fully aware that Cindy called in her " Boys PI's" to go into the woods to find " Caylee". A deceased Caylee. Lee to say that he was upset, felt he was out of the loop, he to leave Camp Ant and retreat go back to work. Really? Maybe Mr. Lee Anthony was afraid they would find Caylee. He under immunity, is this why he said the opposite of his loving mother last week? Did Lee know where Caylee was " in the woods" - Casey telling him in code, jail house vids.

Cindy's " Private Investigators"

Cindy making up the story that they were led by a psychic. The woman who was said to have held a " Teddy" that belonged to Caylee -in her home/office in Virginia- to call and tell Dominic Casey on the phone where to find Caylee, near the pavers, in the woods. As I recall when that all went down, it was all to be said a ruse.

Who was Dominic on the phone with that day? Maybe Rosebud needs to have her phone records pulled from November 08. Rosebud = Cindy.

The phone records were never substantiated, that Dominic was on the phone with Ms. Lucas. Not that I am aware of, after Grace made this public notice. Ms. Lucas conveniently dropped out of sight, and out of the media.

While doing rebuttal's last week they were talking about the throw away pre paid phones. There was a 15 minute recess, then JP asked about calling Mrs Anthony to the stand and then they seemed to drop it all and then court was dismissed. I guess the state must have gotten those phone records too..

Any thoughts???

This is why Lee flipped the script on his mom. He didn't want to get charged with perjury. The Anthony's probably knew where Caylee was all along.. Maybe they decided to drop that since they were in enough trouble already with the other proven perjury.

It's very plausible that they knew

 

[rbrnmw2]

JB being rude to HHJP this morning won't help his case

 

[yolorado]

How on earth could the courts have allowed this lawyer to represent Casey Anthony?

I'm still not convinced that she'll be convicted of 1st degree. I think, my opinion, he's sleazy as they come...but that his (in my opinion) slimey tactics just might work. If we get another OJ type acquittal out of this, my faith and trust in our judicial system will be gone.

 

[yolorado]

It's very plausible that they knew

Suppose will never know, but I have always thought, that the reason the PI's were in the woods looking for a body was because KC told someone, somehow, where to look. Weren't their rumors of some kind of deal offered, or in the works, prior to Caylee's remains being found? The prosecution had taken the DP off the table. Police will deal for remains, but the defense would have to furnish them. Before committing to some story for some deal, someone in the defense or family would have almost certainly wanted to make sure they could deliver, but it turned out they couldn't. Perhaps, KC just didn't know the exact location well enough to give instructions on exactly where to go. So no body=no deal=no disclosure, continued reliance on Zanny as excuse. Then, when the remains were found, all bets were off, an likely any possibility of cutting a plea.

 

[NocturnalLady]

I voted maybe because I don't k now how it could be proven. I think he did manipulate some of the witnesses into testifying in the way that he felt would help his case. But I don't think we have proof that he did so.

HOWEVER he'd better watch his back when Casey gets a verdict that the Anthony's don't like because I think they would turn on him in a heartbeat in order to get Casey a new trial.

 

[DesSands]

Subornation of perjury is a legal term describing the crime of persuading another to commit perjury.[1]
It may be applied to an attorney who presents testimony (or an affidavit) the attorney knows is materially false to a judge or jury as if it were factual. Generally, the knowledge that the testimony is materially false must rise above mere suspicion to what a reasonable attorney would have believed in the circumstances. For example, the attorney cannot be wilfully blind to the fact that their witness is giving false testimony. An attorney who actively encourages a witness to give false testimony is clearly guilty of suborning perjury.

Subornation of perjury - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia

If it is found he compelled CA to testify in the manner she did or knowingly let her lie he should be punished IMO

The whole darn bunch ought to go down. :maddening:

 

[DesSands]

I voted maybe because I don't k now how it could be proven. I think he did manipulate some of the witnesses into testifying in the way that he felt would help his case. But I don't think we have proof that he did so.

HOWEVER he'd better watch his back when Casey gets a verdict that the Anthony's don't like because I think they would turn on him in a heartbeat in order to get Casey a new trial.

He has learned nothing from the others ICA's life has touched, even remotely. He's liable to get a huge awakening !! :maddening:

 

[rbrnmw2]

He has learned nothing from the others ICA's life has touched, even remotely. He's liable to get a huge awakening !! :maddening:

Yeah he may have made them mad enough today listen JB is that the Cindy bus rolling your way?

 

[mitzi]

I don't think JB thinks anything is beyond ethical. Maybe he just calls perjury "magical thinking" now. His defense made Alice In Wonderland look like a documentary.

Maybe when HHJP gets through with him he'll have enough free time to study for a new career. In chemistry...

I just hope that HHJP follows through on his threats...so often he has bent over backwards to the defense just to avoid appellate issues. If nothing happens to JB, I will no longer believe that HHJP is a fair but law-abiding judge.

 

[rbrnmw2]

I just hope that HHJP follows through on his threats...so often he has bent over backwards to the defense just to avoid appellate issues. If nothing happens to JB, I will no longer believe that HHJP is a fair but law-abiding judge.

I think HHJP will do something to JB he has been very rude to the judge on many occasions which IMO shows a lack of respect for the Justice System as a whole.

 

[Chris_Texas]

Baez is ICA's representative and employee. Nothing more. he's not evil, he's not stupid, he's not a killer, he's not corrupt, his tactics are what they are because that's the only thing he had.

His JOB was to defend this evil wench to the best of his ability and ensure that she got a fair trial. In my opinion he did a pretty decent job. In fact, he did such a good job that even here a whole bunch of people went home last night worried that he might have actually won a case that was as airtight as a case can possibly be.

 

[Chris_Texas]

I think HHJP will do something to JB he has been very rude to the judge on many occasions which IMO shows a lack of respect for the Justice System as a whole.

I highly HIGHLY doubt it. And by far the most unprofessional conduct in the entire trial was JA's ludicrous behavior during the closing. He damn near caused a mistrial with his antics.

 

[TotallyObsessed]

Baez is ICA's representative and employee. Nothing more. he's not evil, he's not stupid, he's not a killer, he's not corrupt, his tactics are what they are because that's the only thing he had.

His JOB was to defend this evil wench to the best of his ability and ensure that she got a fair trial. In my opinion he did a pretty decent job. In fact, he did such a good job that even here a whole bunch of people went home last night worried that he might have actually won a case that was as airtight as a case can possibly be.

Unfortunately, you are right. However, to some people (myself included) JB seems to represent the epitome of "slimy lawyer". Is he stupid? Stupid like a fox. I just don't happen to approve of people who show a propensity to ride morality and/or the law on the edge like a razor blade. That's my opinion, and mine only. I just would not be happy to call someone like him my friend. Someone who would knowingly put the mother of his defendant on the stand to lie, under oath, just to make him look like a good lawyer. Nope. Not me.

 

[Nova]

Thanks, Kat. :seeya: From the above Statute ..........
The underlying perjury must be proved under the standards required by the applicable perjury statute.

......... The State, imo, is NOT going to go forward with ANY perjury charges. Consequently, this becomes a moot point.

Exactly. States define "knowing" very strictly for purposes of charging perjury or subornation of perjury. It isn't enough that internet posters think it very likely that a witness lied.

And with SofP, TWO people have to "know" a lie was being told: the witness AND the attorney.

Remember the David Westerfield case? During the trial, Westerfield's lawyers claimed all sorts of things, including casting suspicion on the parents of the victim. After Westerfield was convicted, people were outraged to learn that Westerfield had been in negotiations for a plea bargain based on his ability to take authorities to the dead child's remains. The public was outraged that Westerfield's attorneys said the things they said, when they had to know Westerfield was guilty since he knew the location of the body.

Steven Feldman, Westerfield's lead attorney, wrote an editorial claiming that people falsely confess to crimes all the time. Therefore and even though Westerfield confessed to his own attorneys, they had no way of "knowing" whether he was telling the truth. Needless to say, the public was outraged at such a loose interpretation of perjury and suborning laws.

Yet Feldman was never charged.

 

[Chris_Texas]

Unfortunately, you are right. However, to some people (myself included) JB seems to represent the epitome of "slimy lawyer". Is he stupid? Stupid like a fox. I just don't happen to approve of people who show a propensity to ride morality and/or the law on the edge like a razor blade. That's my opinion, and mine only. I just would not be happy to call someone like him my friend. Someone who would knowingly put the mother of his defendant on the stand to lie, under oath, just to make him look like a good lawyer. Nope. Not me.

I have no complaint with this. I do have a problem with the many folks who seem unable or unwilling to separate the defendant from the people representing her, and all too willing to transfer or assign all the negative opinions they have of the defendant onto the defense team.

Baez devoted three years of his life to this case. He almost certainly knows ICA better than anyone on in the world, he likely has a very strong opinion on her guilt. But guilty or not, and however he might feel about her personally, Casey Anthony has a right the best most aggressive defense possible.

Someone has to do it, not for the guilty but for the innocent.

Baez knows this. He also knows that he is going to be hated and ridiculed for doing his job. He knows that if he wins or even does a decent job, in many people's minds he will be no better than ICA -- and if he loses his loss will be cheered and celebrated. Screw that.

I will stand up here and say the unpopular thing: Thank's Mr Baez, and all defense attorneys, for doing what you do. I think you did a good job of it and ICA got a fair trial and solid defense. I believe that when this is finished justice will have been served.

 

[Nova24]

I have no doubt that if convicted ICA will go after JB and said he made up the drowning and abuse. She will claim she was forced to go along with it. She will also claim he slept with her and threatened her. If I were JB I would protect myself and not be alone with her.

CA will say he made her testify as she did or set her up for perjury charges. She would throw him to the wolves in a second especially if daughter gets convicted. She needs to take personal accountability as well.

 

[realdeal]

I highly HIGHLY doubt it. And by far the most unprofessional conduct in the entire trial was JA's ludicrous behavior during the closing. He damn near caused a mistrial with his antics.

You must not have watched much of the trial. Nothing JA did came even close to Jose's antics during this entire circus. Ask 100 unbiased people, and 99 would tell you that.

 

[realdeal]

JB being rude to HHJP this morning won't help his case

Unfortunately, I missed a few moments today. Which incident are you referring to specifically? I've seen him be rude to HHJP scores of times during this trial. I'm curious what he did today though.

 

[MissJames]

Bottom line for me is, something needs to be done to protect others from hiring him as a lawyer. If JB is allowed to get away with skirting the law and giving the virtual finger to court orders ,he will continue to put his clients cases at risk.
Maybe he just needs a reality check or maybe he needs to be disbarred. I'm sure the legal eagles in FL can decide that,but this is not just about punishment,it's about protecting future clients.

 

[justthinkin]

In addition to SOP, I can't imagine that it wasn't JB who concocted including Roy Kronk in the defense's opening statement and theory of death. I don't believe for a minute that was that ICA's idea.