Summary of Damien's Mental Health History

[NCSleuth]

I guess I will just have disagree and move on.

I do see his behavior as unusual and troublesome. Nothing usual about getting suspended 7 times in one semester. Nothing usual about trying to set your science class room on fire, even if only one time. Nothing usual about sucking blood out of peoples arms. Nothing usual about threatening to kill yourself, a police officer, and your parents.

IMO these behaviors go way beyond anything normal or a teenager seeking attention. How many normal teenagers have a 500 page mental health record?

Oh well.

 

[Ina Cognito]

I guess I will just have disagree and move on.

I do see his behavior as unusual and troublesome. Nothing usual about getting suspended 7 times in one semester. Nothing usual about trying to set your science class room on fire, even if only one time. Nothing usual about sucking blood out of peoples arms. Nothing usual about threatening to kill yourself, a police officer, and your parents.

IMO these behaviors go way beyond anything normal or a teenager seeking attention. How many normal teenagers have a 500 page mental health record?

Oh well.

My main question for those of you it applies to is this; Why are you equating mental illness with criminality?

 

[ScarlettScarpetta]

Well as long as they're happy to sit by or even join in on Echols denying the simple and well documented fact that he lived in West Memphis at the time of the murders they can't rightly be expected to respect the character evidence regarding him, let alone the evidence regarding the murders themselves.

IT does not matter where he lived.

This is where you lose me.

The ship has sunk. The prosecution offered them freedom because they know they are not guilty. There is no other reason when you have people already in jail to let them out unless you know they are not guilty.

The evidence of them murder shows it was not Echols, Or the other two either. There is nothing that connects them. So to try and build a case based on a crazy adolescence and the attitude of a grunge metal youth.

It seems to me that this sort of stuff is like a hangnail.

 

[NCSleuth]

My main question for those of you it applies to is this; Why are you equating mental illness with criminality?

I am not! If you read my post I say I am not referring to his guilt or innocence. Thread is on his mental health history. That is the only thing I am discussing.

My issue is the supporters that try to minimize his mental health history. IMO to minimize this 500 page mental health history causes non supporters to ignore the rest of your argument as to his guilt. When I say "your argument" I am referring to anyone that minimizes the history, not necessarily you in particular.

To minimize or trivialize his mental health history and attribute it to seeking attention or teenage angst completely under minds any other argument you might have.

IMO it is clear to anyone with an open mind that he had serious, yes serious, mental health issues as a teenager. Not saying now. Not saying he was guilty. but it is not normal to try to set your school on fire! it is not normal to get suspended 7 times in one semester. It is not normal to drink the blood of others. It is not normal to threaten to kill yourself, your parents, and a police officer. It is not normal to have a 509 page mental health history.
How many teenagers do you know that has one? 509 pages?

 

[Ina Cognito]

I am not! If you read my post I say I am not referring to his guilt or innocence. Thread is on his mental health history. That is the only thing I am discussing.

My issue is the supporters that try to minimize his mental health history. IMO to minimize this 500 page mental health history causes non supporters to ignore the rest of your argument as to his guilt. When I say "your argument" I am referring to anyone that minimizes the history, not necessarily you in particular.

To minimize or trivialize his mental health history and attribute it to seeking attention or teenage angst completely under minds any other argument you might have.

IMO it is clear to anyone with an open mind that he had serious, yes serious, mental health issues as a teenager. Not saying now. Not saying he was guilty. but it is not normal to try to set your school on fire! it is not normal to get suspended 7 times in one semester. It is not normal to drink the blood of others. It is not normal to threaten to kill yourself, your parents, and a police officer. It is not normal to have a 509 page mental health history.
How many teenagers do you know that has one? 509 pages?

While I quoted your post I WROTE "to those of you it applies to." I wasn't pointing a finger at you in particular but, I am seeing a common vein appear over and over again. Just as you explain your use of the word "your" being a general reference to people that are "minimizing" Damian's mental health at the time I did specify that my question was for those people that are equating mental illness with criminality.

 

[SmoothOperator]

IT does not matter where he lived.

This is where you lose me.

The ship has sunk. The prosecution offered them freedom because they know they are not guilty. There is no other reason when you have people already in jail to let them out unless you know they are not guilty.

The evidence of them murder shows it was not Echols, Or the other two either. There is nothing that connects them. So to try and build a case based on a crazy adolescence and the attitude of a grunge metal youth.

It seems to me that this sort of stuff is like a hangnail.

Well, this prosecution did NOT offer these three guilty men their "freedom" because they know they are not guilty of the murders of Christopher, Stevie, and Michael..<<---This is not even remotely accurate at all..

It has been repeatedly sourced/cited via posts in the majority of the threads that have posts from any point after August 2011 when the Alford Plea came to light.. This prosecution did not seek out, offer, or come to any of the three guilty men or their attys with the Alford Plea.. It was sought out, proposed, and came to fruition due to members of the defense team(who are named and quoted in the many sourced/cited posts since August 2011)..


**Please forgive the limitations that come w/my posting via mobile ATM**

 

[gheckso]

So the prosecution simply agreed to it and let three potential child killers walk free? absolving themselves of responsibility because, hey, we didn't bring it up they did.

 

[Ausgirl]

I personally think the potential for millions of $ in law suits greased the wheels there...

Back on topic! I actually do think Echols was a seriously disturbed young man, and that he can look back on himself with regret shows what a long way he has come from there, so obviously something has helped him between there and here.

 

[Compassionate Reader]

Just so we're all clear here (and this thread can die the death it deserves), I'm not saying that Damien's "mental health issues" were non existent. I'm not saying that every teenager went through the same thing. I am saying that, whatever issues Damien had, his "issues" are not evidence that he murdered Christopher, Michael and Steven. As has been pointed out, the defense brought up his history during the punishment phase of the trial in an effort to mitigate his punishment. Of course, they sought to exaggerate every little thing in an attempt to save his life. The death penalty was still imposed, so their strategy didn't work - which means that the judge didn't think he had mental health issues severe enough to take the DP off of the table.

I have had to evacuate school because of a fire that was set by a student. In fact, I have had to evacuate on more than one occasion because of one student who was setting fires. I have heard students threaten their parents in much the same way that Damien did. I have heard students threaten other students with pretty bizarre consequences. I have seen student fights that left a puddle of blood on the floor. None of the students that I know that threatened their parents or others ever killed anyone. None of the students that fought ever killed anyone. So, these types of behaviors are apparently part of the teen years for some people. Therefore, IMO, these behaviors are, for some teenagers, an expression of teen angst.

 

[UdbCrzy2]

My main question for those of you it applies to is this; Why are you equating mental illness with criminality?

I think his acts are criminal. Setting a fire to a school building is a felony and a terrorist act and that's just one of the acts.

 

[UdbCrzy2]

So the prosecution simply agreed to it and let three potential child killers walk free? absolving themselves of responsibility because, hey, we didn't bring it up they did.

In our justice system defendants can and often do plead guilty and any jail/prison time they were serving for that crime can be applied to the current sentence.

So, that's what happened. They plead guilty, got out because they served their time. They are on parole, I thought it was for 10-years.

As horrible as the crimes were, yes they eventually got to walk out of prison and it happens everyday.

 

[missy_g]

So DE lied about living in WM. I guess he killed the 3 kids.

 

[gheckso]

As horrible as the crimes were, yes they eventually got to walk out of prison and it happens everyday.

Respectfully snipped.

Guilty Inmates on Death Row are released from prison everyday? Remind not to visit America.

Anyhow I guess we've strayed long enough from the OT.

 

[Ina Cognito]

I think his acts are criminal. Setting a fire to a school building is a felony and a terrorist act and that's just one of the acts.

That is not what I meant. Can people with mental illness commit criminal acts? Sure, just like anyone else. Is someone more prone to committing criminal acts because they have mental illness? no, not necessarily.

This pointing at Damian's "mental illness" (which no one will name on this thread for some reason) as proof of his likelihood to have committed not only a crime but the crime of murdering 3 boys is a false premise. Just because Damian committed previous acts does not make him guilty of the one we are mostly discussing. A mental illness of course does not make him innocent of course but what I am seeing over and over again on numerous thread here is this mental illness of Damian Ehols being pointed at as if it is proof of him committing murder when it is not. Lets explore that even a bit more, the idea of a mentally ill Echols being capable of performing such a murder in such an organized way without mistake really argues against that premise.

Now, there are a number of things written in Damian's mental health records. They vary and are written in differing forms and can be attributed to different disorders or diagnoses. I'll ask again, what do those on this thread citing the significance of those records and forming that premise claim is Damian's diagnosis or diagnoses and how do they support the premise that it displays criminality and leads to the premise of him having killed these children simply cased on mental illness alone?

Hope this is worded properly as I'm falling asleep...

 

[MissJ]

There is something called a sociopathic or psychopathic triad. Don't believe me...look it up.
It has to do with predicting children/teens who may have this personality disorder. (most murderers have this disorder). This triad is: bedwetting, starting fires, and cruelty to animals. Like I said, don't believe me look it up. There is a BIG difference in treatable mental disorders and sociopathic/psychopathic personality disorders. The latter are not treatable with medication. Yes, prisons are full of people with these disorders...think Drew Peterson, Scott Peterson and on trial currently Martin MacNeill.

 

[reedus23]

Well, this prosecution did NOT offer these three guilty men their "freedom" because they know they are not guilty of the murders of Christopher, Stevie, and Michael..<<---This is not even remotely accurate at all..

It has been repeatedly sourced/cited via posts in the majority of the threads that have posts from any point after August 2011 when the Alford Plea came to light.. This prosecution did not seek out, offer, or come to any of the three guilty men or their attys with the Alford Plea.. It was sought out, proposed, and came to fruition due to members of the defense team(who are named and quoted in the many sourced/cited posts since August 2011)..


**Please forgive the limitations that come w/my posting via mobile ATM**

It matters not who started the conversation. Bottom line, and it's not debatable, is that the prosecution would NEVER allow 3 individuals, who they were convinced were guilty AND for whom they already had convictions over and were sitting in jail, to go free. It doesn't matter who approached who, if they thought there was any evidence of guilt, they would NEVER allow them to walk free.

 

[reedus23]

I personally think the potential for millions of $ in law suits greased the wheels there...

That is absolutely a reason they insisted on an Alford plea, or rather refused to simply release the 3. But I think the potential for millions of $ in law suits had one of those 3 gone out and harmed someone else matches or exceeds the amount the State of Arkansas would have faced for wrongful imprisonment.

 

[reedus23]

I think his acts are criminal. Setting a fire to a school building is a felony and a terrorist act and that's just one of the acts.

Was there a police report for this. Serious question. I don't remember seeing it.

 

[reedus23]

As horrible as the crimes were, yes they eventually got to walk out of prison and it happens everyday.

I'm going to guess you say everyday for dramatic effect so I won't hold you to it but can you show me 20 occasions (1 for each year since their arrest) in which a defendant was convicted, imprisoned and then the prosecution subsequently consents to a new trial being granted and then enters a plea that allows those defendants to walk free in a situation where there is a continued insistence by the prosecution that those defendants were guilty?

I understand what you're saying. Pleas are entered all the time at prior to trials. The situation involved here? Might be the only time I've seen it.

 

[Ina Cognito]

There is something called a sociopathic or psychopathic triad. Don't believe me...look it up.
It has to do with predicting children/teens who may have this personality disorder. (most murderers have this disorder). This triad is: bedwetting, starting fires, and cruelty to animals. Like I said, don't believe me look it up. There is a BIG difference in treatable mental disorders and sociopathic/psychopathic personality disorders. The latter are not treatable with medication. Yes, prisons are full of people with these disorders...think Drew Peterson, Scott Peterson and on trial currently Martin MacNeill.

I know what a sociopath is and do not believe that Ehols is one at all.