Summary of Damien's Mental Health History

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ended up doing time for a felony, right? IIRC, it was extortion or fraud. Whatever it was, it kinda discredits him as a witness, wouldn't you say?
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If this is tru CR then why would we believe people that are in prison for murder ? Can't have it both ways.
 
This case bothers me so much because I seriouslly DO NOT KNOW what to believe . Once I start thinking one way I read something else that makes me go hmmm .
 
DNA IS not the end all be all for me as 30 years ago we didn't have it at all
 
Compassionate Reader said:
You do realize that Jerry Driver resigned from the WMPD, moved to Florida and ended up doing time for a felony, right?
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You're changing the subject, but that's ok. Supporters do that when they're backed into a corner.

So I'll ask again:

What evidence or documentation do you have to support the specific allegation that Damien has made against Jerry Driver, and that you agree with: namely, that Jerry Driver had teens committed to mental hospitals when they denied his sexual advances?

You must have something to support your allegation. Otherwise, why would you make up such a thing?
 
D, J & J are not going anywhere (except Damien going towards the execution table).

They will get nowhere with the hearings........ just like they have gotten nowhere in the last 18 years.

IF people would actually read read read all the documents at Callahan's and not go by what documentaries, books, TV shows tell you, you would finally realize you've been duped by three men and their defense attorneys and Damien's wife Lori etc.

The right three are in prison, they are not going anywhere.....
 
Silkprint said:
This case bothers me so much because I seriouslly DO NOT KNOW what to believe . Once I start thinking one way I read something else that makes me go hmmm .
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Are there certain questions you have that make you go from innocent to guilty or guilty to innocent?
 
Compassionate Reader said:
His "extensive history of mental illness" began in 1992? Like I said before, NONsense.

I've read this tripe before, and much of what they judged to be abnormal behavior is behavior that I have observed in students (who were not judged to be mentally ill, only teenagers). I'm not going to take the time to discuss this garbage item by item, but any intelligent person can see that this proves nothing.
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He is not a normal teenager.
I knew people into metal, goth and they never spoke about murdering their parents or even drinking blood.
The one that did went to jail for child molestation. The other was psychotic and attacked women.
 
Mary,

As I said, the only documentation about Jerry Driver is Damien's statements because mental health records are sealed. Damien was committed to a mental health hospital on two different occasions, so he did receive mental health treatment. He was released by the doctors who said he needed the treatment because they believed he was ready to return to society. Otherwise he would have remained in the hospital.

iluvmua,

I don't doubt that people are convicted on circumstantial evidence and no DNA. However, in the case you cited, was there DNA from other individuals at the scene? I don't think that Terry Hobbs was already in the woods. I think he followed the boys there at around 6:30 pm shortly after he left David Jacoby's house (when Hobbs stated that he and Jacoby were searching the woods for the boys and Jacoby stated that they were not together). Personally, I don't believe Jacoby is involved other than Hobbs' use of him for an alibi. I have read the documents on Callahan's. Furthermore, I have read additional documents pertaining to the trial that aren't yet on Callahan's, specifically relating to the Pasdar suit. The WM3 are innocent and need to be free.

x_files,

I taught high school for 25 years. I came in contact with literally thousands of teenagers during that time, many of whom dressed Goth, listened to heavy metal music, etc. I have heard statements similar to what Damien said (about killing a parent, etc.) from many of them as well as from many teens who dressed and looked "normal." None of them ever did anything that they threatened to do. It was all for show/attention.

Silkprint,

Jerry Driver never denied that he was guilty. Damien and the others have maintained their innocence over the years. To me, that's a big difference.

Puffin,

I'm not saying that a very troubled teen could not commit murder. However, not all very troubled teens commit murder. Damien was a very troubled teen that did not commit murder. Like I said before, although every square is a rectangle, not every rectangle is a square.
 
Compassionate Reader said:
Jerry Driver never denied that he was guilty. Damien and the others have maintained their innocence over the years. To me, that's a big difference.
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So have a ton of other convicts. Your argument is that they are credible because they can maintain a lie for years? Really? Are you gonna be a Casey Anthony supporter? She was just a young, troubled mom an all. I'm sure you saw TONS of pregnant teens in your vast years of teaching. And she does claim that she's innocent.

Compassionate Reader said:
I'm not saying that a very troubled teen could not commit murder. However, not all very troubled teens commit murder. Damien was a very troubled teen that did not commit murder. Like I said before, although every square is a rectangle, not every rectangle is a square.
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No one is maintaining that all teens with mental illness commit murder. But one could probably make a good argument that the majority of teens that commit murder are mentally ill or "troubled." You see, his mental illness only became relevant when he murdered those children.
 
Puffin said:
So have a ton of other convicts. Your argument is that they are credible because they can maintain a lie for years? Really? Are you gonna be a Casey Anthony supporter? She was just a young, troubled mom an all. I'm sure you saw TONS of pregnant teens in your vast years of teaching. And she does claim that she's innocent.

I believe that Casey Anthony is guilty. Shocked? However, she may get off as the prosecution IMO has failed to prove its case. The point here is that Jerry Driver didn't maintain innocence. IMO there is evidence against other people in the WM3 case. Driver's crime was more or less cut and dried. This case has many questions still swirling after almost 20 years.

No one is maintaining that all teens with mental illness commit murder. But one could probably make a good argument that the majority of teens that commit murder are mentally ill or "troubled." You see, his mental illness only became relevant when he murdered those children.
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Trying to use his mental illness to prove that he murdered the children is the problem here. As you said, not all teens with mental illness commit murder. In fact, I don't believe that it can be proven that all murderers were mentally ill as teenagers. I even question your statement that all teen murderers were mentally ill. All teens are "troubled." It is simply a part of being a teenager.

As I have said before, his past mental illness should have made him a person of interest, but the mental illness is not proof of anything other than he has had mental problems in the past. The prosecution needed to present some sort of evidence (other than the ramblings of a mentally challenged youth) to show Damien's guilt. They relied on the "Satanic ritual killing" (which was not proven) and a lot of innuendo, including bringing up his past mental health issues.

Therefore, using his past mental illness as proof of his crime is faulty logic to say the least, and IMO is unethical. That's my problem with the continued harping on his past mental health issues - that and the fact that, because he was a minor at the time, the records should not have been released. They should have remained sealed.
 
FYI, CR, Echols was no minor when the murders took place. He turned 20 on Dec. 11, 1994.

He was 18 at the time of the murders.
 
However, when he was hospitalized, he was a minor, but that's not really important. Hospital records are private, between the patient and the doctor. That is true regardless of the age of the patient. The fact that Damien was a minor when he was hospitalized simply further adds to the unethical nature of the release and publication of the records.

Do you think that supporters don't support Chris, Michael and Stevie? We most certainly do. I posted a thread earlier about remembering them on the anniversary of their murders. Supporters work for justice for six people who have not received justice: Chris, Michael and Stevie as well as Damien, Jason and Jessie.
 
Compassionate Reader said:
Mary,

As I said, the only documentation about Jerry Driver is Damien's statements

Yes, that's what I thought. I was hoping maybe you could give me documents proving that Jerry Driver had teens committed to mental hospitals when they wouldn't have sex with him. But I guess that's not going to happen.

Btw, who said, "It is our opinion that Damien needs mental health treatment."?

It wasn't Jerry Driver.

Who accompanied Damien to his first commitment to a mental institution?

It wasn't Jerry Driver.

What was the name of the Oregon officer who escorted Damien to a hospital, after he'd threatened to cut his father's and mother's throats and eat his father?

It wasn't Jerry Driver
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Btw, who said, "It is our opinion that Damien needs mental health treatment."?

I believe it was a social worker. I can't remember the name. However, I know of cases (I'm not saying that it's true here, just that it's a possibility) where social workers strive to get someone committed just so that they can eat regularly and sleep in a bed. They think that they're helping. Also, the social worker was there because Jerry Driver had been saying that Damien was a devil worshiper.

"Who accompanied Damien to his first commitment to a mental institution?"

I believe his family accompanied him the first time. Jerry Driver took him the second time, though.

"What was the name of the Oregon officer who escorted Damien to a hospital, after he'd threatened to cut his father's and mother's throats and eat his father?"

I don't remember his name, but Jerry Driver had called the Oregon authorities to "warn" them about Damien. Did Damien actually cut either of his parents' throats or eat his father? Seriously, I've heard similar statements from teens when they are angry. The threats are hardly ever followed through. In this case, Damien was missing all his friends in West Memphis and wanted to "go home" as he put it. So, he did.

Let's face it, Jerry Driver had it out for Damien. Whether it was because Damien resisted his sexual advance or because Driver just didn't like Damien because he was different doesn't really matter. Driver was on a mission against Satanism, and, with absolutely no evidence other than his dislike of Damien, he targeted Damien and saw to it that his life was very uncomfortable.
 
Hmmm I have never heard my kids or any of their friends tell any of us they were going to cut our throats or anyone elses .
Lots of teens DON'T say that !!!
I have a hard time believing that every single person involved with these boys is lying .
 
In my experience as a high school teacher, I heard quite a few teens make statements along those lines. One boy, in a parent-teacher conference (with both parents present) said, "I wish both of you were dead. I think tonight I'll just take care of that problem while you're asleep." He was diagnosed as ED (emotionally disturbed). Another student, this one a diagnosed manic depressive, said in the hearing of both parents, "You are both idiots! I want to chop off your heads and drink the blood from them." I could go on. I'm not saying that these types of statements are made by all teens; I'm only saying that many teens, in anger and/or frustration, make such statements. They are not said seriously, and most people don't take them that way.

Personally, I think that the mental health professionals that agreed to Damien's hospitalization did so because they thought the hospital would provide him with "three hots and a cot" which he was not getting at home. I'm not saying that I agree with such action; I'm just saying that it's possible that the professionals who recommended his hospitalization (at the request of Jerry Driver) might have done it for reasons other than a serious mental condition. After all, he was only in the hospital for a few weeks. If he had been seriously mentally ill, it would have taken longer than that to stabilize him, wouldn't you think?
 
Troubled kids sometimes strive to set themselves apart from a society that they don't feel accepts them to begin with. What I see in DE's mental evaluations is a kid who had felt powerless for so long, that he internally gave himself "powers" he didn't really possess, either by convincing himself of them, or going out of his way to convince others of them.

When I was 17, aliens visited me and made me eat fish bladders so that I could breathe underwater. Did I really believe that? I dunno...maybe. I had several dreams about it (heh), but the important thing is that I told people these aliens came to me at night and made me eat the fish bladders (I was very convincing, believe me). It made me feel special...it set me apart...it gave a trouble kid with no control over her life/environment a strange sense of control.

That's where I see DE in these evaluations. Some things he might have actually believed, but most things I'm guessing he embellished and amplified in order to shock people. That's control to a kid who feels powerless.

JMO

P.S. For the record, I grew up to be a perfectly rational, well balanced adult. The aliens hardly ever invite me to dinner any more. ;-)
 
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