SURPRISE HEARING Friday 18th August

[Pensfan]

Here's a picture Compassionate reader linked to in the other thread.Made me cry.He'll be fine

Echols is not a malnourished puppy that just needs some TLC. Read about his wretched childhood and the extreme neglect he experienced. Realize that Echols' childhood history shows he likely has Reactive Attachment Disorder and he might have ASPD. Echols admits that he has Manic Depression. He has a documented history of becoming psychotic and less than half of bipolar patients are adherent with their medication directions. In addition, he was in a cage for the last 18 years.

Even if undeniable evidence was found that cleared his name, I would still be very concerned that he went directly from living in a cage to moving in with a woman and a child.

 

[UdbCrzy2]

Even after gaining new trials they decided they should take a plea deal that they devised. It was the defense's idea for this plea.

Glad they finally confessed to their guilt with the guilty plea.

I guess Arkansas is like Illinois that they get 'time off' for good behavior which cuts their time sometimes in half or more.

 

[Cazzie]

Echols is not a malnourished puppy that just needs some TLC. Read about his wretched childhood and the extreme neglect he experienced. Realize that Echols' childhood history shows he likely has Reactive Attachment Disorder and he might have ASPD. Echols admits that he has Manic Depression. He has a documented history of becoming psychotic and less than half of bipolar patients are adherent with their medication directions. In addition, he was in a cage for the last 18 years.

Even if undeniable evidence was found that cleared his name, I would still be very concerned that he went directly from living in a cage to moving in with a woman and a child.

Isn't his child from a pre-prison relationship with a different woman? I would presume that son lives with her.

Or does Lorri have a child?

 

[UdbCrzy2]

People are forgetting that the reason they were set free was not because they were proven innocent, but because they plead guilty, got time served (good time off) and are now on 10-years of parole.

You do know that they can be called back to serve an additional 21 years if they don't stay clean.

Just glad to see them take some responsibility for what they did by pleading guilty. That says a lot to me. They also saved the state a lot of money too.

 

[UdbCrzy2]

If he was that mentally ill, why was he released?

Damien was a troubled teen, no doubt, but he is not a murderer. Past psychiatric diagnoses, although they could be used to make Damien a person of interest in the case, in and of themselves are simply not proof that he is (or was) a murderer. You're a nurse. Do all of your psychotic patients kill people? Isn't it true that many times they direct their violence toward themselves? That's what Damien said he did - direct his violence against himself. And, turning that around, are all killers psychotic? The cause-and-effect relationship is simply not there without other evidence, and there is none.

Wouldn't that violate HIPPA to discuss his now mental state?

I know they used it in trial, but with the guilty plea received on Friday I would think that would violate his medical privacy.

I guess he/they will have supervision with having a parole of 10-year terms...

Also adding: We may not know what type of mental meds he is on right now and has been on due to HIPPA.

 

[Pensfan]

Isn't his child from a pre-prison relationship with a different woman? I would presume that son lives with her.

Or does Lorri have a child?

DE has a child from a previous relationship that visits him. I am uncertain about LDE's previous relationships and any previous children.

 

[UdbCrzy2]

I'm still trying to understand this plea deal. If Baldwin didn't want to go ahead with it, why did his lawyers advise him to take the deal? Couldn't they have let Echols & Misskelley plead guilty and go free and let Baldwin go ahead with the hearing and potential trial? Why was it all 3 or nothing? :waitasec:

That is troubling to me too. I think that since the plea was their (all 3) idea that they knew they were not going to fare well at trial.

I guess they decided to finally admit their guilt and take some responsibility in what they did. Why else plea guilty when a new trial had already been granted by the Supreme Court.

I thought the 3 had evidence that would exonerate them, but apparently they decided that wasn't that convincing.

 

[UdbCrzy2]

The state probably wouldn't have accepted the deal for the other two if they were still going to have to go through with a trial, and still have all the risk of being sued by Jason Baldwin afterwards. Ellington has already had to state publically that he believes these three are homicidal maniacs, but he's letting them go free to save the state money, so that already makes him look like a piece of crap. If he didn't even have the money incentive, there would be no reason for him to agree to it, he'd be better off losing at trial, at least that way he could say he tried to keep them in.

I think the victim's families are past the statute of limitation on a wrongful death suit. That's the only civil suit I see that could have happened.

The WM3 plead guilty because they wanted to. They were not forced into it and had all gained approval for new trials to use their new evidence.

I'm glad they finally took some responsibility in admitting the guilt. It's been a long time coming.

 

[claudicici]

They did not admit guilt and I'm sure you know that.I think you keep repeating it to convince yourself and others that they did.They did not.

 

[doubt]

Pensfan could be talking about the silly tweens that claimed to have heard Damien "confess" at the softball park. They seem a lot like Abigail of Salem Witch Trial fame to me. One of Damien's defense mechanisms before he was unjustly incarcerated was sarcasm, like many teens. That's what the tweens heard, nothing more. Not to mention the fact that they were eavesdropping on the conversation, not a part of it. They possibly heard nothing.

As to the "look" or whatever seen from Damien during the press conference, you've got to remember he'd just spent over 18 years in virtual isolation. He was probably unsure and uncomfortable with as many people around as there were at the PC. If's possible that you could have seen him licking his lips. It's an unconscious gesture. It's meaningless. Do you want someone observing your every mannerism and reading something nefarious into it? Just sayin' . . .

if i had just spent 18 years of my life on death row for crimes i did not commit, 18 years knowing full well that countless media outlets had profited by way of irresponsible, libelous, salaciously written "reports" on my case....ones i could do nothing about bc i was stuck in solitary confinement under the threat of death.....you can bet your bottom dollar that upon my long overdue release, and at the very first opportunity, i would flip those media outlets the bird, too. but i would do it with both hands raised above my head and a blinding smile and nobody would be left to speculate as to whether i'd done it or not. and no, flipping the bird is not customary for me. but honestly, i think all 3 of these men showed great restraint yesterday and it boggles my mind to see people bringing up a hand gesture as a reason to defend what happened to them.

for those who continue to insist they're guilty, please open your eyes. the state would not release 3 men that they honestly believed had brutally murdered 3 little boys. not in a million years. not ever. the state released them only because they knew they were wrong. period. if even one of those good-ole boys that makes up the joke of a legal system down there has a grain of morality or character, they'll man-up and admit the friggin' truth. sadly, i am not holding my breath....especially bc there are still so many members of the public willing to buy the baloney they're selling.

 

[HRCODEPINK]

Echols is not a malnourished puppy that just needs some TLC. Read about his wretched childhood and the extreme neglect he experienced. Realize that Echols' childhood history shows he likely has Reactive Attachment Disorder and he might have ASPD. Echols admits that he has Manic Depression. He has a documented history of becoming psychotic and less than half of bipolar patients are adherent with their medication directions. In addition, he was in a cage for the last 18 years.

Even if undeniable evidence was found that cleared his name, I would still be very concerned that he went directly from living in a cage to moving in with a woman and a child.

BBM
I do not believe that they were guilty but I have to agree with you that I am a little concerned. Having been there were someone was released after nearly 18 years, I think that eventually they will adjust just fine, but it is very stressful when a person is released, even when they have had counselling and knew they were going to be released for weeks in advance. The world to us is not as scary as it will be for people who have spent 18 years in a cage. I worry most about Jessie. I don't know that he was mentally prepared for the real world before prison, much less being thrust into it the way he was yesterday with it hanging over his head that it was his statements that landed them there in the first place. I think some intense counseling is due for all of them.

I think the victim's families are past the statute of limitation on a wrongful death suit. That's the only civil suit I see that could have happened.

The WM3 plead guilty because they wanted to. They were not forced into it and had all gained approval for new trials to use their new evidence.

I'm glad they finally took some responsibility in admitting the guilt. It's been a long time coming.

An Alford plea is not an admission of your responsibility in the crime. It is quite the opposite. And they were not granted new trials. They were granted the opportunity to present all of their DNA evidence and witness statements that contradicted with the statements of a step-father who denies that he even saw the boys that day and whose DNA and the DNA of a friend were found at the scene, along with all other evidence that they were able to uncover that they believe proves their innocence and then ask for a new trial. It literally could have been years before they were actually released. If it were me, I would rather continue that fight from the outside than from the inside. I think that it is very telling that less than 24 hours after release there is already discussion of the state destroying the evidence. Just my :twocents: as someone who has been there.

When the AR Supreme court unanimously decided that this evidence should be considered, their opinion repeatedly mentions wrongdoing on behalf of the circuit court. If it were me, I would not want to take my chances with a court which has already done the wrong thing repeatedly to the point that it had to be taken this far, for this long.

 

[Pensfan]

if i had just spent 18 years of my life on death row for crimes i did not commit, 18 years knowing full well that countless media outlets had profited by way of irresponsible, libelous, salaciously written "reports" on my case....ones i could do nothing about bc i was stuck in solitary confinement under the threat of death.....you can bet your bottom dollar that upon my long overdue release, and at the very first opportunity, i would flip those media outlets the bird, too. but i would do it with both hands raised above my head and a blinding smile and nobody would be left to speculate as to whether i'd done it or not. and no, flipping the bird is not customary for me. but honestly, i think all 3 of these men showed great restraint yesterday and it boggles my mind to see people bringing up a hand gesture as a reason to defend what happened to them.

Respectfully shortened:

DE stated that he expressed his anger by blowning a kiss to the victims' families.



Q. Mr. Price has asked you about your feelings about being arrested. You said you had good days and bad days. Was it a bad day the day after you were arrested when you blew a kiss to the victims' families? Was that a bad day when you did that?

A. That was one of the times I lost my temper.

Q. You lost your temper is why you blew a kiss to the victims' families?

A. Yes.

http://callahan.8k.com/wm3/damien1.html

 

[doubt]

imo, those who continue to claim that the 3 pled guilty yesterday are choosing to engage in libel. they did not plead guilty and this has been explained dozens of times on this board alone during the last 24 hours.

libel is a crime.

 

[doubt]

Respectfully shortened:

DE stated that he expressed his anger by blowning a kiss to the victims' families.



Q. Mr. Price has asked you about your feelings about being arrested. You said you had good days and bad days. Was it a bad day the day after you were arrested when you blew a kiss to the victims' families? Was that a bad day when you did that?

A. That was one of the times I lost my temper.

Q. You lost your temper is why you blew a kiss to the victims' families?

A. Yes.

http://callahan.8k.com/wm3/damien1.html

since you quoted me, i have to ask what the intent of your post was? maybe i'm missing something (cleaning with the kids in between posts so totally possible) but i do not see the link between the two.

 

[Kaybug]

imo, those who continue to claim that the 3 pled guilty yesterday are choosing to engage in libel. they did not plead guilty and this has been explained dozens of times on this board alone during the last 24 hours.

libel is a crime.

:gthanks:

 

[Cappuccino]

since you quoted me, i have to ask what the intent of your post was? maybe i'm missing something (cleaning with the kids in between posts so totally possible) but i do not see the link between the two.

There is no connection, its just the same old "give a dog a bad name and hang him" attitude that has dogged the prosecution and their supporters right from the start. The truth is that even if Damien had full on mooned to the victims families, it wouldn't make his DNA magically show up at the crime scene.

Its sad to see so many fall for Ellington's blatant face saving exercise. The authorities do not release people from Death Row just for pleading guilty, and the prosecution would not have accepted the offer of an Allford plea if they hadn't already been backed into a corner.

 

[deelytful1]

They did not admit guilt and I'm sure you know that.I think you keep repeating it to convince yourself and others that they did.They did not.

:yes: :clap:

 

[Cazzie]

DE has a child from a previous relationship that visits him. I am uncertain about LDE's previous relationships and any previous children.

Thanks for the clarification.

 

[UdbCrzy2]

Three weeks ago defense attorneys approached prosecutors seeking the Alford plea option, Prosecutor Scott Ellington of Jonesboro said.

“At no time did we make an offer,” Ellington said. “The offer was made to us.”

Arkansas Attorney General Dustin McDaniel was contacted by defense council, and a meeting was arranged, Ellington said.

http://www.paragoulddailypress.com/articles/2011/08/20/top_story/doc4e4fd25dc7d29058784712.txt



____________________________

In light of these circumstances I decided to entertain plea offers that were being proposed by the defense. I NEVER considered ANY arrangement that would negate the verdicts of those two juries. Guilt or Innocence was NEVER ON THE TABLE.

Today’s proceeding allows the defendants the freedom of speech to SAY they are innocent, but the FACT is, they just plead GUILTY. I strongly believe that the interests of justice have been served today.

On behalf of the State I have preserved the verdicts of those juries and averted more prolonged and costly trials and appeals in this case.

http://www.arktimes.com/ArkansasBlo...ecutors-statement-on-west-memphis-3-plea-deal

 

[HRCODEPINK]

my snip

riley fox's father falsely confessed to her murder which set me straight forever to believe a confession of any sort, especially when the evidence doesnt match up.

I never thought these three were guilty as charged, a terrible miscarriage of justice all this time, worse even than the pinellas 12 letting FCA go. I am SO HAPPY for them. may they enjoy the rest of their lives free with as little bitterness as possible (I believe I would be very bitter myself!!)

I have a very tough on crime stance and always have. Even with my IP work. The only things that have changed in all of that is that I no longer support the death penalty--and not because I am soft, but because from personal experience with multiple people who were taken off of death row and given life with recommendation for a new trial that never happened, all have told me separately, without having spoken to each other, that if they had known they wouldn't get the new trial they would have refused the deal and been executed because of how awful it is in there. The other thing that has changed was my stance on false confession. I never EVER would have believed that it happened or that people would ever confess to something that they didn't do, but it does happen. And WAY more often than I would have ever imagined. In a link I posted upthread, the IP said that 1/4th of the people who had been released through their services had falsely confessed. It happens. All the time.

imo, those who continue to claim that the 3 pled guilty yesterday are choosing to engage in libel. they did not plead guilty and this has been explained dozens of times on this board alone during the last 24 hours.

libel is a crime.

I totally agree. And if this statement is really from the prosecutor, then I would think that would be clear. The plea was "guilty" without an admission that they did anything. The very definition of the Alford plea is that you admit that they have something but you do not take responsibility for the crime. Period. And having worked innocence cases in the past (17 total, with only one left unresolved (a false confession, no less) and only one I was wrong about--my first, I started working it when I was 16 years old) I can assure you that no prosecutor with a solid case is going to let someone walk free that they already have convicted and on death row--especially when it is high profile.)

"Today’s proceeding allows the defendants the freedom of speech to SAY they are innocent, but the FACT is, they just plead GUILTY."

http://www.arktimes.com/ArkansasBlo...ecutors-statement-on-west-memphis-3-plea-deal

Why would you work a deal that you admit gives them the "freedom of speech to say that they are innocent" when you supposedly already have them and you are certain that the right people are behind bars?

The news that they want to destroy the evidence already tells me that they are not open to looking into anything that comes up, as Ellington pretends. How can you look when you have destroyed everything to compare it to?

Three weeks ago defense attorneys approached prosecutors seeking the Alford plea option, Prosecutor Scott Ellington of Jonesboro said.

“At no time did we make an offer,” Ellington said. “The offer was made to us.”

Arkansas Attorney General Dustin McDaniel was contacted by defense council, and a meeting was arranged, Ellington said.

http://www.paragoulddailypress.com/articles/2011/08/20/top_story/doc4e4fd25dc7d29058784712.txt




In light of these circumstances I decided to entertain plea offers that were being proposed by the defense. I NEVER considered ANY arrangement that would negate the verdicts of those two juries. Guilt or Innocence was NEVER ON THE TABLE.

Today’s proceeding allows the defendants the freedom of speech to SAY they are innocent, but the FACT is, they just plead GUILTY. I strongly believe that the interests of justice have been served today.

On behalf of the State I have preserved the verdicts of those juries and averted more prolonged and costly trials and appeals in this case.

http://www.arktimes.com/ArkansasBlo...ecutors-statement-on-west-memphis-3-plea-deal

Not being snarky, just asking, if you have time, to please look at this situation from a different perspective for a second. Pretend for a minute that the WM3 don't exist and that none of the stuff you believe even exists. Try to separate yourself from the case completely just for a minute.

Now say you were convicted of a crime that you didn't commit. Part of the reason that you were convicted was due to misconduct on the part of jurors, prosecutors and LE in a small town. You went through appeal after appeal and were repeatedly denied the opportunity to present evidence that proves your innocence due to procedural rules and misinterpretation and errors on the part of the courts. You finally get to the Supreme Court in the state and they look at the evidence and unanimously agree that the evidence has merit and should be considered....but unfortunately, because of the process, the only court you can go to and submit this evidence for review to plead not only for a new trial, but also your life is the court that has already made all of those mistakes in the past.

Can you honestly say you would want to wait any longer and put your life and future back in the hands of the original court that has already made all of these mistakes?