Susan Powell: Odd discovery in West Utah Desert

[PickieChickie]

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:waitasec:

Would it make sense for those who want to discuss this, to have a separate thread for it? It does seem to have a component of distraction. I tend to think it's a red herring that muddies the waters myself, but I'm very open to a discussion where the links in these cases can be clarified.

I believe Bartleby was giving his opinion, and his remark about his own position doesn't rise to the level of knickers in a twist.

I posted a new thread. Since I'm not familiar with the Steve Koecher case, you who are who want to add the details, feel free:
[ame="http://www.websleuths.com/forums/showthread.php?p=4978310#post4978310"]3/25/2010: Susan Cox Powell - Steve Koecher - Josh Powell - Connection? - Websleuths Crime Sleuthing Community[/ame]

 

[Bartleby]

Where I live, people who are innocent witnesses to crimes are often tracked down, threatened or killed by perpetrators. This is a major deterrent to solving crimes. Which is why it might be floated as a possibility in this case.

YMMV. No one needs to meet some burden of proof to "convince" you or any other poster in order to mention a possibility on a public board. And they shouldn't have to be ridiculed by someone with their knickers in a twist. If you can't read other's thoughts without disparagement, take it elsewhere.

The problem for me is there have to be two very unlikely events occurring here - first Steven witnesses Josh in the process of disposing of a body, and then Josh has to arrange for someone else to track Steven down and dispose of him. Also we have to assume Steven did not contact the Police in the days between witnessing the dipsosal and the time he vanished, or he'd have taken them straight to the disposal site and they wouldn't have wasted thousands of man hours searching.

If there are other theories please post a link to them, as I haven't been able to find them.

Like the WVP and St George Police departments, and Steven own father, I can't see a connection between the cases.

 

[hollyblue]

I don't believe Steven was a witness to anything. But you're absolutely right, everyone is entitled to their opinion. I believe the frustration when people attempt to connect Steven's and Susan's cases stems from the fact that Susan's case has received so much more national attention than Steven's. In addition, the attempt by a very few to connect the cases seems to be an effort to muddy the waters - in Josh's favor.

Next, someone will attempt to float the idea that Steven murdered Susan and then ran off to Mexico.

I am not in the habit of mudding waters in anyone's favor. I may be guilty of stirring the pot to get people to think?????? However, I want to get to the truth---ONLY-- and I was under the impression that's what we all want. I don't know if my theory is correct--like all of us---we'll have to wait and see what falls from the tree. Real facts that will make me say...nope, that's not it. But I have a possible theory I'm working on with the information that we have so far, and it works. Not wanting to share....obviously.
What 'given' info do we have that is or is not correct? You know it can't all be right/inclusive. The FACTS are very, very few right now.
Thanks Dovebar for reminding a few what the boards are all about...Love the analogy of twisted knickers. . Reminds me of a stuck thong!!!

 

[GrandmaTo4]

Okay, and since these questions have been asked and answered at least three or four times, we're outta here. If you can't be polite enough to read carefully and dignify other's comments with courtesy, just responding endlessly with hair-splitting and argumentativeness, this is a time waster for anyone interested in finding either of these people. No wonder the families and friends won't give you any information.

Please feel free to return to wild speculation and "facts."

"I heard he was gay."
"I'm sure he ran off somewhere."
"He's probably on a cruise!"
"Did you know he misspelled his mother's name!"

(bbm)

Gee dovebar, I must me missing a whole lot. I didn't see anyone being impolite -- or wildly speculating about:

"I heard he was gay."
"I'm sure he ran off somewhere."
"He's probably on a cruise!"
"Did you know he misspelled his mother's name!"

RayO's statement re: Steven and Josh was SPECIFICALLY STATED as a "Lifetime Network script version" -- which was obviously written in jest -- and was sarcastically poking fun at the "Lifetime Network" NOT Steven Koecher.

*Hair-splittling arguments* are pretty darn necessary if one has any hope of finding the truth.

Proven timelines - plus locations separated by approximately 300 miles are not very conducive for realistic, contrary theories with ZERO corroborating evidence.

With the facts, as known today, many of us agree with Bartleby:

Like the WVP and St George Police departments, and Steven own father, I can't see a connection between the cases.

In my opinion, laytonian is most sympathetic to BOTH missing person cases -- and said it by far the BEST:

The sad thing about the "Susan and Steven" theories are that they harm both cases, by taking time away from looking at facts.

Neither Susan nor Steven deserve to be accused of being in an illicit relationship.

I'm sure I can speak for ALL Websleuthers when I say we ALL desperately want both Susan and Steven found -- and also want whoever may have harmed them prosecuted to the full extent of the law!

 

[hollyblue]

IMO, that's not necessarly true OR ridiculous, hollyblue.

Did you follow the first Phil Spector trial? :banghead:

Josh Powell is not Phil Spector. The defense would have to show evidence and not just speculation....for any jury with common sense to let this get in the way. With today's technology, it should be simple to show a connection if there was one.

 

[hollyblue]

(bbm)

Gee dovebar, I must me missing a whole lot. I didn't see anyone being impolite -- or wildly speculating about:

"I heard he was gay."
"I'm sure he ran off somewhere."
"He's probably on a cruise!"
"Did you know he misspelled his mother's name!"

RayO's statement re: Steven and Josh was SPECIFICALLY STATED as a "Lifetime Network script version" -- which was obviously written in jest -- and was sarcastically poking fun at the "Lifetime Network" NOT Steven Koecher.

*Hair-splittling arguments* are pretty darn necessary if one has any hope of finding the truth.

Proven timelines - plus locations separated by approximately 300 miles are not very conducive for realistic, contrary theories with ZERO corroborating evidence.

With the facts, as known today, many of us agree with Bartleby:



In my opinion, laytonian is most sympathetic to BOTH missing person cases -- and said it by far the BEST:
I'm sure I can speak for ALL Websleuthers when I say we ALL desperately want both Susan and Steven found -- and also want whoever may have harmed them prosecuted to the full extent of the law!

I snipped these 'comments' from stories The Trib had on Steven Koecher---

Maybe we should practice what we preach, ey? And yes, I would say there is a 'frustration' with less media coverage and interest in Steve's case. Sad.

laytonian: 1/9/2010 2:37:00 PM

crimsondove:
Never rule out anything.


laytonian: 2/26/2010 6:03:00 PM

This, to me, is a much more compelling case than others which have had much more publicity.

Certainly, someone knows something:

Proven timelines ----Really? Proof=Conjecture??? It is a fine timeline, but not proven.

 

[TallCoolOne]

I'll add they both had lived in WVC at one time, both disappeared within a week of each other, the one no longer living in WVC was back in the immediate area of SLC a few days after Susan's disappearance and tho he had talked to a person in Ruby Valley for a brief visit and luncheon, he did not tell anyone about the trip...even tho he spoke to relatives during that time and did not visit relatives or other friends in that time. No one knows 'why' he made that trip. Spending lots of money on gas...and lots of time....for someone sooooo broke they could not pay their rent for 3 mos. And no one has come forward to explain his income or other expenses in that time. Not much info coming forward. I watch and listen to all the input, but pay full attention to what LE has output.

While that's a well and fine, it doesn't help explain the wet spot drying with fans, the sudden move by Josh after her disappearance, his total lack of cooperation in the entire matter, his sudden need to rent a car and disappear for a whole day, and some other things. I really hate to see rumors get started. You have to remember, many people go missing in just a 24 hour period. Until I see something that actually connects these two missing people I am going to consider this just rumor and speculation.

 

[grayjay]

I am not in the habit of mudding waters in anyone's favor. I may be guilty of stirring the pot to get people to think?????? However, I want to get to the truth---ONLY-- and I was under the impression that's what we all want. I don't know if my theory is correct--like all of us---we'll have to wait and see what falls from the tree. Real facts that will make me say...nope, that's not it. But I have a possible theory I'm working on with the information that we have so far, and it works. Not wanting to share....obviously.
What 'given' info do we have that is or is not correct? You know it can't all be right/inclusive. The FACTS are very, very few right now.
Thanks Dovebar for reminding a few what the boards are all about...Love the analogy of twisted knickers. . Reminds me of a stuck thong!!!

When the cement shape was found, it was supported and debated around all sorts of possibilities on this list. I'm sure that just a single plausible fact can get people thinking and sleuthing and conjuring more relationships.

I'm hoping you'll share your work at some point and then your idea can be more fully explored by those who have missed what you have found. I can't wait to hear, in fact. In the meantime, I can't make it work even if I wish it could break both cases wide open and find both missing people.

 

[TechWriter797]

... his sudden need to rent a car and disappear for a whole day, and some other things...

Do we know why he rented a vehicle? Was his van impounded?

 

[PickieChickie]

Do we know why he rented a vehicle? Was his van impounded?

Yes, his van was impounded three days after Susan disappeared. Josh left the two boys with his sister, Jennifer Graves, then disappeared for 24 hours during which time, according to the WVC police department, drove several hundred miles.

Nobody knows why he rented the car or where he went. When he returned, he was reported by Tim Peterson, a fellow ward member and friend of the Powell's, to have "the worst case of wind burned hands" Peterson had ever seen and that Josh kept putting lotion on them.

 

[DomCasual]

Yes, his van was impounded three days after Susan disappeared. Josh left the two boys with his sister, Jennifer Graves, then disappeared for 24 hours during which time, according to the WVC police department, drove several hundred miles.

Nobody knows why he rented the car or where he went. When he returned, he was reported by Tim Peterson, a fellow ward member and friend of the Powell's, to have "the worst case of wind burned hands" Peterson had ever seen and that Josh kept putting lotion on them.

If I'm not mistaken, you have the timing on this mixed up. Didn't Peterson say he noticed that after he had picked up Josh from the police station, before he would have actually rented the car?

 

[PickieChickie]

If I'm not mistaken, you have the timing on this mixed up. Didn't Peterson say he noticed that after he had picked up Josh from the police station, before he would have actually rented the car?

Searching for Susan Powell: Neighbor describes husband's odd behavior
Missing mom » Friend says man seemed indifferent to wife's disappearance.
By Sheena Mcfarland
The Salt Lake Tribune
Updated: 12/24/2009 09:08:38 AM MST

When Joshua Powell showed up at Tim Peterson's door with extremely wind-burned hands two days after his wife went missing, asking for a ride to the police station to get his van, he seemed "pretty unfazed."


CONTINUED AT SOURCE: http://www.sltrib.com/news/ci_14058397

 

[hollyblue]

While that's a well and fine, it doesn't help explain the wet spot drying with fans, the sudden move by Josh after her disappearance, his total lack of cooperation in the entire matter, his sudden need to rent a car and disappear for a whole day, and some other things. I really hate to see rumors get started. You have to remember, many people go missing in just a 24 hour period. Until I see something that actually connects these two missing people I am going to consider this just rumor and speculation.

Your entitled. That's all we have to really go on now isn't it? Speculation....very few facts. So any theory would fall into that realm of thinking. Maybe it's just my being raised in a scientific environment---maybe I should change my sig to: Nothing is impossible.....only not probable.

To call it a rumor tells me more of how you rationalize information.

the·o·ry   /ˈθiəri, ˈθɪəri/ Show Spelled[thee-uh-ree, theer-ee] Show IPA
–noun,plural-ries.
1.a coherent group of general propositions used as principles of explanation for a class of phenomena: Einstein's theory of relativity.
2.a proposed explanation whose status is still conjectural, in contrast to well-established propositions that are regarded as reporting matters of actual fact.
3.Mathematics. a body of principles, theorems, or the like, belonging to one subject: number theory.
4.the branch of a science or art that deals with its principles or methods, as distinguished from its practice: music theory.
5.a particular conception or view of something to be done or of the method of doing it; a system of rules or principles.
6.contemplation or speculation.
7.guess or conjecture


Wet spot- Could be a number of things. Vomit, pee, spilt milk, juice??

Josh moving- He did not have the finances to live there. I originally thought it was a good move for the children--put them closer to the Coxs', but the AH has worked his manipulations in that scenario too.

Lack of co-op- He's an AH with a strong control need... that has a smart lawyer. Like it or not, he still has control of the situation. He's in AH paradise.

Rent-a-car.- He didn't know how long he would be w/o one. Why he couldn't use someone else's vehicle is a ponder; but, I really don't think he used the rental to go back anywhere and finish the job. I don't think he was that stupid---and I'm sure the father would have advised otherwise. I know if my car is having work done and I don't have it available --I'm a mess...even for the normal hours it may not be here. What to do in an emergency?? Just me. Worrier.

I'm not a supporter of Josh...I think he and the father both have personality disorders that need psych repair and worry about the boy's emotional and mental health. Why DCS is not checking on them is beyond me.

 

[laytonian]

Searching for Susan Powell: Neighbor describes husband's odd behavior
Missing mom » Friend says man seemed indifferent to wife's disappearance.
By Sheena Mcfarland
The Salt Lake Tribune
Updated: 12/24/2009 09:08:38 AM MST

When Joshua Powell showed up at Tim Peterson's door with extremely wind-burned hands two days after his wife went missing, asking for a ride to the police station to get his van, he seemed "pretty unfazed."


CONTINUED AT SOURCE: http://www.sltrib.com/news/ci_14058397

Here's the detail we need:
Larry King Transcript

"MICHELLE SIGONA, INVESTIGATIVE REPORTER: Well, Jane, let`s talk about that evidence. I can confirm to you that five search warrants have been executed: three inside the Powell home, one for Josh Powell`s DNA. Also one for the family minivan.
I can also tell you that investigators at this time are working on a sixth warrant which will go towards that rental car. Police do tell me that he did drive for hundreds of miles, the Tuesday after Sunday went missing, that Sunday. That Tuesday evening Josh Powell was gone. They cannot account for his whereabouts. They have no clue where he went."

Extrapolating:
Sunday was Dec 6th, "Tuesday after Sunday" was Dec 8th, so the rental car was returned no later than sometime on the afternoon/evening of Dec 9th.

That matches the timeline in the article you posted, about JP needing Peterson to him to help pick up his minivan "two days after Susan was reporting missing" (which that article calculates as the 7th).

Thank you. Whether you calculate it as "three days" or "two days", both articles give us the same ending date for that rental car...even though it's not mentioned in the article you posted.

On the evening of Dec 9th, Steven Koecher was in St George, performing temple sealings in the LDS temple there.

 

[hollyblue]

When the cement shape was found, it was supported and debated around all sorts of possibilities on this list. I'm sure that just a single plausible fact can get people thinking and sleuthing and conjuring more relationships.

I'm hoping you'll share your work at some point and then your idea can be more fully explored by those who have missed what you have found. I can't wait to hear, in fact. In the meantime, I can't make it work even if I wish it could break both cases wide open and find both missing people.

To share a theory that is not viewed seriously, but with ridicule is moot in my opinion. If it's proven wrong and either Susan or Steven is found....I'll share it. Until then, I will explore other "theories" and while doing so, try to find ways to disprove mine.

LE has more info than we do.

 

[hollyblue]

Here's the detail we need:
Larry King Transcript

"MICHELLE SIGONA, INVESTIGATIVE REPORTER: Well, Jane, let`s talk about that evidence. I can confirm to you that five search warrants have been executed: three inside the Powell home, one for Josh Powell`s DNA. Also one for the family minivan.
I can also tell you that investigators at this time are working on a sixth warrant which will go towards that rental car. Police do tell me that he did drive for hundreds of miles, the Tuesday after Sunday went missing, that Sunday. That Tuesday evening Josh Powell was gone. They cannot account for his whereabouts. They have no clue where he went."

Extrapolating:
Sunday was Dec 6th, "Tuesday after Sunday" was Dec 8th, so the rental car was returned no later than sometime on the afternoon/evening of Dec 9th.

That matches the timeline in the article you posted, about JP needing Peterson to him to help pick up his minivan "two days after Susan was reporting missing" (which that article calculates as the 7th).

Thank you. Whether you calculate it as "three days" or "two days", both articles give us the same ending date for that rental car...even though it's not mentioned in the article you posted.

On the evening of Dec 9th, Steven Koecher was in St George, performing temple sealings in the LDS temple there.

This is the last post re: SK I will make on this thread---everything should be moved there for other's to ponder.

Below is the link to the PC given by SK's parents. Beginning at the 8:15 mark, his mother states "He worked on Tues. Wed & Thurs. in central Nev/N. Utah. Friday in St. George". If this was bad info, don't you think LE being right there would correct her? or Mr. K? The news of the temple ward sealing had been discussed prior to this PC taking place and a close relative was aware of it...so how can this be explained? The mother had to have these facts from somewhere, no?

I do find it interesting that although they (parents) must have had SK's possessions sometime in Dec., the discovery of the passport was not made until late Feb. As was the mention of the temple ward sighting. Two months...after his disappearance. Possible...but hinky. If it were my child missing, I would have torn everything into bits ----looking with a fine tooth comb for anything and everything for a hint of the same in trying to find him.
But that's me.....JMO


http://www.lasvegasnow.com/Global/c...578357&topVideoCatNo=undefined&autoStart=true

 

[humwhatsup]

Where did everyone go on this thread??

 

[PickieChickie]

Where did everyone go on this thread??

Since it was determined the cement slab was just a clean out pour from a cement truck, nobody is interested in discussing it anymore.

Click here then click on "Forum tools" and subscribe to the entire Susan Powell thread so every time someone posts in the Susan Powell category, you get notified with an e-mail. You can get one immediately, once a day or once a week I think. Here: [ame="http://www.websleuths.com/forums/forumdisplay.php?f=378"]Susan Powell - Websleuths Crime Sleuthing Community[/ame]

 

[Bartleby]

Where did everyone go on this thread??

Since the odd discovery has now been investigated by LE and is not covering a body, the thread is dying a natural death.

 

[ProdigalSonReturns]

There is something funny going on out in Henderson Nevada. I'm telling you right now you aren't getting the truth.