Syringe in bottle contained traces of chloroform

[momtective]

I don't think KC injected anything into Caylee, intravenously or otherwise. If she did then Caylee's DNA would have been on the needle. With liquid still in the container there should have been DNA in the liquid as well, from saliva from whoever was drinking it.
Now, if testosterone was detected in the syringe or the liquid...I think it was...then KC injecting herself with GHB isn't completely out of my realm of thought. I've been around people who take anabolic steroids and they are so on edge and angry. The slightest thing just makes them snap. I could see KC hitting up GHB but I just don't think she injected anything into Caylee. jmo

 

[RR0004]

We all live different lives. We all have different life experiences. More than a few times, I've personally witnessed the destructive power of a wrongful conviction. They simply crush a defendant or defendants and a family or families to the point of obliterating them.

Wrongful convictions come about in a lot of different ways. Sometimes an eyewitness makes an honest mistake. Sometimes, witnesses perjure themselves. Sometimes LE wrings a false confession out of some poor soul or souls -- they're often young or mentally a bit slow -- who cave in and give detectives what they wanted to hear. Sometimes (far, far too many times), prosecutors knowingly withhold exculpatory or exonerating evidence from the defense. Sometimes LE manufactures (plants) evidence. Sometimes (frequently) jailhouse snithches tell outlandish lies in a trade with the devil (D.A.'s office). Sometimes there was not even a crime; i.e., prosecutors simply guessed there was a crime and got a Grand Jury to agree. Sometimes juries make far more out of circumstantial evidence than comes close to existing -- see high profile cases. Sometimes jurors cave to community pressure. Sometimes the defense attorney is simply incompetent. Sometimes ... etc..

Regardless of why it came about, the effect of a wrongful conviction on the defendant or defendants and their family or families is ghastly. A jury is one of the last line of defense against a wrongful conviction, but few jurors see their role as a juror that way.

Some of the posts you have made have been truly superb, and I do not mean just this case. You have the capacity to be a critical thinker.

FWIW
FWIW

She doesn't just have the capacity...she IS a brilliant thinker. Everyone here has something brilliant to contribute IMO.

Sorry for the OT.

 

[RR0004]

The syringe and the bottle both had the steroid stack in them. The syringe had ethanol. But it did not register for chloroform.

But, the bottle did have chloroform, correct? TIA

 

[Woe.be.gone]

Now I am no doctor so I am hoping there is one on the boards who would be able to give their input on this. Based on what I know a child hates getting a shot and in some cases you literally have to hold the child down b.c they kick and scream.

I hate even bringing this up but do you think Casey could have had help in this? Someone that helped her hold Caylee down or do you think she maybe bound her up with tape or rope so she couldn't move. I would think it would be hard to inject a toddler b.c sometime even the parent has to help hold the child down when they get a shot.

Thoughts on this one?

ETA: Just talked to my mom and she told me with a chloroform injection you would have to put it into the vain b.c of the fact its an anesthetic. She told me you would have to have some medical knowledge into that.

CA is a nurse - just saying. (oops - I should read the thread before I post as this has been pointed out already.)

 

[panthera]

I first want to say that all of you amaze me. :applause: You are really GOOD at figuring things out. I don't post a lot cause you're always way ahead of me. LOL

Anyway, I was wondering... do you think KC put the needle through the duct tape and pushed in the chloroform in her little mouth, or do you think she injected it through a vein (sorry ?

Even though I mentioned the possibility of it going directly into her mouth, I really think this is the least likely since the tape would basically leave Casey having to shove the needle into her closed mouth. On the other hand, administering to a vein would require practice unless the person was already totally immobile. MOO

 

[2goldfish]

what is doing my head in about this is that I dont believe the plastic bottle would have held the chloro for very long. all sources say it must be mixed and kept in glass? am I wrong in understanding that? after reading every single one of these posts here I still dont feel sure there was chloro in the bottle/syringe, I cant understand the reports and no one else seems too clear either.


but it should have destroyed the plastic. the only thing I can think of with the knowledge I have is the possibility that she had chloro in the syringe and something else in the bottle, to kill evidence? to stay safe herself? otherwise, what else could cause some chroloform to appear chemically after time?

You guys said a lot about chloroform being illegal in household goods, I dont know, a makeup forum I use said that milk of magnesia was good for facial oil control :biglaugh: but has to be the plain kind, not mint or whatever due to the sugars, however I am in the UK and they only had boots brand, I check the ingredients and lo, it is milk of magnesia and ...chloroform. shudder! so far so good...and no, it doesnt help worth a [censored] for oil either

my point in that aside being obvs it can be used for other things than nefarious, but what breaks down to it? anything else that was in that bottle? is it random after all? sense says that it cant possibly be random but wudge's posts made me think of the film "the life of david gale"...that you cant always believe what you assume is correct. dont get me wrong, I am positive KC killed her baby but I dont know if the bottle/syringe is the smoking gun I assumed on first reading the news bits. .... because it shouldnt have been ok in plastic, if the assumption that the fluid in the bottle is chloroform is correct. which is cant be. argh. doing my head in.

 

[Friday]

Correct, no rotting food. Just fluids/wax from a decomposing Caylee on paper towels.

Many, many thanks.

 

[Macushla]

What is it going to be like for the jurors? Here at WS we have the luxury of poring over the documents, going back and forth on them, access to the internet to look up resources, etc. and last, but certainly not least, the fantastic input from everyone at WS.

I find myself worried that IF this evidence is brought into play at the trial, jurors are going to be confused as all get out BEFORE the defense has their own experts refute the findings or starts claiming contamination, etc.

I know what made me decide she was guilty - and that was long before any reports came out. However, jurors are required to take all the evidence presented into consideration. I do not want to get into a discussion of jurors and evidence in general, please. What I would like to know is what everyone's opinion is about how this will play to a jury IF it is introduced.

 

[2goldfish]

What is it going to be like for the jurors? Here at WS we have the luxury of poring over the documents, going back and forth on them, access to the internet to look up resources, etc. and last, but certainly not least, the fantastic input from everyone at WS.

I find myself worried that IF this evidence is brought into play at the trial, jurors are going to be confused as all get out BEFORE the defense has their own experts refute the findings or starts claiming contamination, etc.

I know what made me decide she was guilty - and that was long before any reports came out. However, jurors are required to take all the evidence presented into consideration. I do not want to get into a discussion of jurors and evidence in general, please. What I would like to know is what everyone's opinion is about how this will play to a jury IF it is introduced.

I believe the experts explain it in a way laymen can understand - the docs arent written this way. I wish I had some experts to dumb it all down for me

 

[Valhall]

But, the bottle did have chloroform, correct? TIA

Yeah, somewhere in the range of 10 ppb.

 

[2goldfish]

They had the prescription drug clonipin (sp?) on premises. She EASILY could have given this crushed to Caylee in her cup and got her to fall asleep. THEN she could have applied the duct tape and put the shot into her. I am still of the mind that she taped a rag under the duct tape and it was into that rag that she injected the deadly concotion.

Also, she COULD have taped Caylee's hands behind her back and then sat on her to put the injection into her fully conscious. If one is EVIL enough to inject ones child with chloroform and cleaning solution? I think one would figure out a method to restrain said child. Heck, she could have wrapped her tightly in the Pooh blanket for that matter and injected the chloroform right into her chest or her mouth. Who knows when one is dealing with a MONSTER!~!:furious:

I dont think the evidence we have supports her hands being bound - or a rag under the tape - or an injection because until this news I didnt know you could inject chloroform, I thought it was always via inhalation - and I am not stupid (I dont think :biglaugh: ) so wonder if KC could have known and made more work for herself...

I think at this point that if chloroform was used, it was by rag to knock caylee out THEN tape her mouth. starting to think she did these two and wrapped her, tossed her into the trunk....I expect KC wanted as little work as possible.

 

[RR0004]

What is it going to be like for the jurors? Here at WS we have the luxury of poring over the documents, going back and forth on them, access to the internet to look up resources, etc. and last, but certainly not least, the fantastic input from everyone at WS.

I find myself worried that IF this evidence is brought into play at the trial, jurors are going to be confused as all get out BEFORE the defense has their own experts refute the findings or starts claiming contamination, etc.

I know what made me decide she was guilty - and that was long before any reports came out. However, jurors are required to take all the evidence presented into consideration. I do not want to get into a discussion of jurors and evidence in general, please. What I would like to know is what everyone's opinion is about how this will play to a jury IF it is introduced.

Well, to be fair...we are just reading reports...has anyone found a summary of all the testing? That IMHO would make it much clearer for us...and no doubt will be presented in clearer terms to a jury. But, truth be told...science can be dry. It will take an artful prosecutor to guide the expert's testimony.

 

[Valhall]

Just to give an idea on this...

http://www.mmr.org/irp/genprog/riskinfo/chlorofr.htm

Massachusetts' limit for chloroform in drinking water is 470 ppb.

 

[RR0004]

I believe the experts explain it in a way laymen can understand - the docs arent written this way. I wish I had some experts to dumb it all down for me

I think you're my long lost twin!

 

[RR0004]

Just to give an idea on this...

http://www.mmr.org/irp/genprog/riskinfo/chlorofr.htm

Massachusetts' limit for chloroform in drinking water is 470 ppb.

So could the trace they found come from rainwater? Do we know how tightly sealed that bottle was?

 

[missyjane77]

I deleted this post because I don't feel like dealing with drama and know-it-alls. I know how I use chloroform in my lab. I know how it's been used in the past.

 

[ctipling]

I dont think the evidence we have supports her hands being bound - or a rag under the tape - or an injection because until this news I didnt know you could inject chloroform, I thought it was always via inhalation - and I am not stupid (I dont think :biglaugh: ) so wonder if KC could have known and made more work for herself...

I think at this point that if chloroform was used, it was by rag to knock caylee out THEN tape her mouth. starting to think she did these two and wrapped her, tossed her into the trunk....I expect KC wanted as little work as possible.

IMHO is CA first put the tape on Caylee's mouth, maybe made it a game with her as I well remember doing such as a child, then used a rag with the chloriform on it to knock her out.

 

[lisalei321]

What if it was injected in Momma Doll? Then handed to Caylee to "fall asleep with"?

 

[Valhall]

So could the trace they found come from rainwater? Do we know how tightly sealed that bottle was?

Yeah, it could. Or it could come from tap water that was the base fluid in the bottle. I have no idea about the "seal" question.

But I also know this - anabolic steroids are typically created using chloroform.

Citronella oil - and I'll kiss a working man's *advertiser censored** if that's not what is in there - is made using chloroform.

The only curious part of this whole gatorade bottle is the apparent citronella oil - considering George or somebody had been searching for ways to kill fleas around the same time as the chloroform searches.

Oh...and citronella oil kills toddlers. This 2 year old here was the son of a co-worker. His momma was busy fixing up the campground for his 2nd birthday and while she wasn't looking he drank some citronella oil - died 2 hours later.

http://oilcitronella.com/toddler-dies-after-drinking-citronella-torch-fuel

 

[Lynda Turpin]

Amen Sister...........Been thinking the same thing!