Syringe in bottle contained traces of chloroform

[JBean]

That is where there had to have been an error in the paperwork. In the results of the examination it states that item Q240.1.1 was INSIDE the gatorade bottle, retrieved from INSIDE the bottle.

In the list of the items from the scene when someone was typing that up they apparently made an error, as 240.1.1 is stated to have been inside of 240 when in fact it had to have been inside of 240.1 because 240 (the bag) is ALSO listed as having been INSIDE the gatorade bottle. Oh lord. Look at it and compare the numbers.

Oh GOD! It gets worse! Next it states that items Q238(the bottle) Q238.2(the piece of plastic) Q239(the cardboard rolls) Q240(the bag!)and Q240.1(the syringe) were NOT analyzed...

Oh so you think they made a mistake?

oh the heck with this report then.

 

[magic-cat]

yes. I am looking at pdf page 74 and 75.
what is the number for the liquid in the syringe? i see liquid in the plastic bag, liquid in the vehicle and liquid in the bottle.
I am assuming that there is another report that says that the liquid in the plastic bag is also the liquid in the syringe?

this report also says that the plastic bag was in the bottle.

Ok the report, the very one you provided the link for, plainly states that the syringe was not analyzed AT ALL. So if there is no error and the bag was inside the bottle and the liquid was in fact from the bag as stated, and NOT inside the syringe, then what we have here is a syringe that was never even analyzed per the report from this link:
http://www.cfnews13.com/uploadedFiles/11911-11987.pdf

So how on earth did we arrive at traces of anything inside the syringe when now I am seeing it was not even analyzed according to this report.
page 75 of 77.:waitasec::waitasec::waitasec:

 

[ynotdivein]

That's funny.
Here you go.
http://www.wftv.com/pdf/21540603/detail.html

Argh, computer I am currently using does not allow me to view this. Will check again ASAP, but in the meantime, many thanks. I don't want to contribute to misunderstandings here.

 

[JBean]

I was confused about that as well. page 11519 at this link
http://www.clickorlando.com/download/2009/1106/21540506.pdf
states that there was indeed a liquid substance in the syringe labeled 240.1.1

If you read a couple of pages up 11515 - 11519 it explains the blue gatorade bottle contained liquid, 2 cardboard rolls, a syringe (which also contained a substance), a piece of possible cotton (cotton and cotton type material is also used for drug abuse/injection)

HTH.

Got it! It was mismarked on the report just as magic cat surmised.

 

[JBean]

Ok the report, the very one you provided the link for, plainly states that the syringe was not analyzed AT ALL. So if there is no error and the bag was inside the bottle and the liquid was in fact from the bag as stated, and NOT inside the syringe, then what we have here is a syringe that was never even analyzed per the report from this link:
http://www.cfnews13.com/uploadedFiles/11911-11987.pdf

So how on earth did we arrive at traces of anything inside the syringe when now I am seeing it was not even analyzed according to this report.
page 75 of 77.:waitasec::waitasec::waitasec:

hahaha I asked that earlier.

carrie gave us some answers though. that is it for me, i am going to start all over on this tomorrow.

 

[magic-cat]

Oh so you think they made a mistake?

oh the heck with this report then.

Either they made a mistake and the liquid was in the syringe instead of the bag, there was nada in the syringe and unless there is another report about the syringe? then it was not even analyzed at least according to this report...:banghead:

 

[autumnlover]

I don't think casey had to hold her down or pin her or anything, because I think Caylee was in the carseat when this all went down. What better restraint is there for a child? I think she was trying to do something in the front seat, whether to call somone or what, I don't know. I think Caylee was in the back screaming and crying which frustrated the bejeepers out of Casey so she jumped in the back in a fit of rage, and taped her mouth shut. The she quickly drew up the chloroform from the bottle that she had prepared, at home, some time before, and shot the liquid into Caylees mouth so fast that she didn't have time to complain or spit it out before she had already swallowed it. Poor Cayle probably got stuck a little by the needle and that may be where the blood on her shirt came from. I think she meant to kill her, she planned it beforehand and she got so mad, she just finally did it. She never bothered to plead insanity because she knew it just would never ever fly that she could do all the prep work for this if she were really insane.

BBM. Excellent point and very feasible. However, whichever way this went down, I believe it was an agonizing death for Caylee. The fact that her mouth and nose were covered by duct tape says enough, no matter how the chloroform was administered. The other fact, which I now believe is indisputable as per the latest doc dump, this crime was very premeditated. We may never know the exact chain of events but I think the closer it gets to trial the more telling the evidence will be. IMO, needles and syringes are used for injections and it's not a huge leap to believe the chloroform, perhaps along with testosterone, was injected into Caylee. I do not think KC had help. LE has cleared everyone in her orbit. KC planned and executed this horrific crime, IMO.

 

[magic-cat]

Got it! It was mismarked on the report just as magic cat surmised.

Thank GOD carrie to the rescue!

 

[ThoughtElf]

Page 54 (11527) (and onwards) not only shows the methodology used to extract the different substances, but also lists vendor & lot #'s of controls/test mixes used for the analysis.

The actual spec results for the chloroform retention value (from the ion tests) on 238.1 is in the other pdf on page 11641 and onwards.

 

[carrie]

Ok the report, the very one you provided the link for, plainly states that the syringe was not analyzed AT ALL. So if there is no error and the bag was inside the bottle and the liquid was in fact from the bag as stated, and NOT inside the syringe, then what we have here is a syringe that was never even analyzed per the report from this link:
http://www.cfnews13.com/uploadedFiles/11911-11987.pdf

So how on earth did we arrive at traces of anything inside the syringe when now I am seeing it was not even analyzed according to this report.
page 75 of 77.:waitasec::waitasec::waitasec:

Because on other pages it discusses the steps taken in the analysis of 240.1.1 (the contents of the syringe). Could they mean the actual syringe wasn't analyzed? IOW, the plastic and the needle part?

we probably need to wait for Dogs and Bond, lol

 

[magic-cat]

Yep there it is on page 909 of 1765 pdf page handwritten 11522:

pictures of the liquid from the syringe designated as Q240.1.1

 

[magic-cat]

Page 54 (11527) (and onwards) not only shows the methodology used to extract the different substances, but also lists vendor & lot #'s of controls/test mixes used for the analysis.

The actual spec results for the chloroform retention value (from the ion tests) on 238.1 is in the other pdf on page 11641 and onwards.

I think it is for the liquid from within the vial not the vial its self...Why can one never discover these things say at noon in the afternoon? Why is it always 1 or 2 in the morning when you are bleary eyed already? Must be Murphy's Law at its finest! lol

 

[lizzysf]

-----Original Message-----
From: Vass, Arpad Alexander
Sent: Thursday, September 04, 2008 8:31 AM
To: Vincent, Michael (OCSO)
Subject: RE: **Exempt**

Mike, I try very hard not to second-guess people since I am well aware that I know very little of what is really going on in an investigation, but I think the early release of the chloroform data was a mistake. Since I am saying nothing to anyone outside my group, I am now getting criticized for other reasons and feel that it might be time to back away from this work. I will of course get the next report out to you and Yuri as promised as soon as I can. On a final note, some of the products we have seen include Pinene and Limonene. This could point to a (possibly) shallow marshy area with decaying vegetation. Is there such an area anywhere near where the car was found? Is it possible to get a topo map of the area? Would it be possible to speak to the individual leading the search from Necrosearch? Arpad

Arpad A. Vass, Ph.D

BBM
I saw earlier posts that mentioned Citronella as the oil in the bag, citing these two substances. (sorry, looked but can't find the posts).. This says possible decaying vegetation. I do remember something about kissing a working mans arse..

 

[smart blonde]

I'm a bit late for the party on this particular thread, so forgive me, but...

I am still of the opinion that the chloroform was originally intended for use (by Casey) on her parents.

 

[magic-cat]

I'm a bit late for the party on this particular thread, so forgive me, but...

I am still of the opinion that the chloroform was originally intended for use (by Casey) on her parents.

Welcome to the party...You could be right about that...she may have had a few more plans up her sleeve besides murdering a little baby. Maybe that was her warm-up and the parents would be the grand finale-who knows with this chick?

 

[smart blonde]

Oh jeez...

Flipping through some of the posts above, I can see I may need to get a degree in chemistry, just to get to the same point in the conversation as the rest of you, lol!

(I am now respectfully backing out of the room, with plans to silently read on my own)!

Carry on, my beloved Brainiacs!

 

[magic-cat]

What was the white cloth tested...like an undergarment?

Cuttings from the doll and stuffing from the doll.

Q244 = the doll

But it also lists all the chemicals found in the liquid in the bottle (Q238.1) and no chloroform is listed. Q240.1 is the syringe. It was not analyzed.

Can anyone tell me where it says there was any chloroform found?

I eat my own words! Here it is right here in black and white by the lovely ExpectingUincorns...

 

[magic-cat]

There's nothing in the bug report that proves premeditation, nothing whatsoever.

Maybe not but there IS something in there that proves that Caylee was IN the trunk and she was placed there either before she died or moments afterward...Whose car was that again? Oh yeah-Casey Anthonys.

I did not forget the aggravated child abuse and manslaughter charges. My focus has been on the huge void of inculpatory evidence needed to prove the murder one charge.

For the record, like the murder one charge, the bug report can't prove either aggravated child abuse or manslaughter. We don't know how Caylee died, nor do we know the circumstances surrounding her death.

Some people appear to think the law permits substituting guesses for evidence.

The duct tape on her face will take care of proving the child abuse part, since it was placed pre-decomposition. AND we may not know HOW she died, but we DO know who killed her and what she did with her afterward...:banghead:

<Snipped and BBM.>

http://www.clickorlando.com/download/2009/1106/21540506.pdf

pg 53

Q240.1.1 is the liquid in the syringe

QB tells us here also early in the thread that it was the liquid in the syringe...me...eating words again...

That would go against prior reports on the duct tape.

Perhaps a different testing method produced these results?

 

[DotsEyes]

I think it's interesting that long before Caylee's remains were found, LE was investigating chloroform, based on Casey's computer searches. Then when Caylee's remains were found, a Gatorade bottle containing chloroform and a syringe were found within a few feet of the remains. What are the chances of that being a mere coincidence?

Not just the computer searches, add in the chloroform in her car trunk.

I hear hooves, I think horses, not zebras.

So much evil planning. Who was really the intended target? That is all I can think. What kind of person hates their child so much that they would plot this hard, in advance, to kill their own baby? It makes me want to puke. When I think of her getting it together enough in her scrambled life to get the supplies together and all the while kissing on Caylee and posing for photo ops with her, I get ill.

Sad. All the way around, it is sad.

Looks like she dumped the body on "gas can" day with George. He almost caught her. I think he caught on as she was speeding away. She drove straight down the street, took the long way around, so George wouldn't see her turn into the dead end at the school on Suburban and follow her. Made a very quick stop, got her boots and pants all yucky and changed into shorts and flip slops in the car, tossing the boots and slacks into the back and hauled herself over to Tony's ASAP. That is the outfit we see her in later, isn't it? A couple of days later she had to wipe up some residue and left it in a bag in the trunk, then out of gas, out of money - car to impound.

The only reason the bag was still in the car is simple; she couldn't figure out a way to get gas into her car.

I don't understand any woman who sleeps with a man but is too shy to ask for gas money. What am I missing? But seriously, all this murder planning and she couldn't get one of her lovers to put gas in her car? So was this her plan to run out of gas at Amscot and leave a car full of evidence in a parking lot on a busy street? From schemer to dreamer.

 

[MvD]

Wouldnt a subcutaneous injection of chloroform be just as deadly in the long run as a IV injection? I dont think KC would have been able to give Caylee an IV injection... and it really doesnt make any sense to have a needle in the syringe.. if she was just using it as a "dropper"...
Its funny.. I automatically keep immediately thinking of scenarios that dont include premediated murder.. I guess its just nearly impossible for me to wrap my mind around that concept.. especially of a child by her own parent... I had wondered if KC was using the syringe as a measuring device.. in an attempt to just put Caylee to sleep... but Im giving her too much credit ... I know.. Besides, again, Im back to the fact that on the long shot that was the case.... there would be NO need for the needle to be in the syringe..