Taking Christ out of Christmas

[deanws]

He sure is a cutie, you go girl!! Live for you now!!:clap: :clap:

AWWLL..thank you Indy..you are so sweet.
:blowkiss:

 

[MREG2]

I will try very hard not to get locked out again. I need to learn just to walk away..LOL

LOL! Sometimes it's easier said than done. I for one need to learn to stay out of threads like these. :crazy:

 

[Indy Gal]

I think the "War on ho, ho, ho" is largely an urban legend.

I thought I read here somewhere they wanted Santas to say Ha Ha Ha instead?

 

[Nova]

I could have written that on all accounts.

Only a fool is offended at being excluded from something he/she wishes not be in involved in. People are offended today because it is fashionable and being angry and/or offended gives them the feeling of being deep or important on a level superior to the rest of us.

Rino, I probably shouldn't have used the phrase "being excluded" in my attempt to explain. That was my language, not theirs.

What such people have said to me is that they find it presumptuous when people assume they will--or even want to--experience special merriment on December 25. It isn't a question of taking offense so much as feeling distanced.

So I repeat: who are such wishes intended for, the wisher or the "wishee"?

 

[absinthe]

I thought I read here somewhere they wanted Santas to say Ha Ha Ha instead?

Let me see if I can dig up a snopes link for you. People have really grabbed hold of the whole "ho, ho, ho" thing because it smacks of the salacious. IMO.

 

[ember]

Ember can we just agree you dont believe what we believe. My intent with this thread really was how PC ppl are taking our Christmas away from us, nothing more

I know how you feel. Every one of our holidays were taken from us.

Ember, I don't think Dark Knight was arguing that pagan holidays and elements weren't incorporated into the celebration of Christmas. He knows that.

He just meant that ancient pagan associations are a poor excuse to ignore the greater truth of the occasion.

What is the greater truth of the occasion?

DK stated that it is usually non-Chrisitians that state the pagan origins...but the link I provided was to a Baptist church site.

 

[Indy Gal]

Let me see if I can dig up a snopes link for you. People have really grabbed hold of the whole "ho, ho, ho" thing because it smacks of the salacious. IMO.

This is the thread I saw this on, havent read in a while maybe I should see if they say this as well at the end.

http://websleuths.com/forums/showthread.php?t=56150

 

[Nova]

Here is my list I am thinking of when I say that
1. santa shouldnt be fat
2. Santa shouldnt say ho ho ho
3. Of course the topic here not saying MC
There are more but my mind is drawling a blank of course..LOL it just doesnt feel like the Christmas I knew as a kid and I am just scared that tradition will be long gone for my child.

And how many people made each of those charges? One? Two? But each time, media outlets everywhere picked up the story and commentators whipped themselves into a fury over something that never had any traction in the first place.

It won't surprise you to hear that I live in a very liberal town in a notoriously liberal state and that most of my friends are passionate progressives. "Merry Christmas" is heard all the time in such areas and among such people. Nobody considers it a significant transgression.

It's mostly corporations (including the one I work for) that want their holiday greetings to be inclusive of non-Christians rather than exclusive. For the most part, that's a marketing decision, not an assault on Christian theology.

 

[Indy Gal]

I know how you feel. Every one of our holidays were taken from us.

I really have no clue what you are talking of????

 

[absinthe]

http://www.snopes.com/politics/christmas/hohoho.asp

 

[Indy Gal]

http://www.snopes.com/politics/christmas/hohoho.asp

Thanks!!

 

[Nova]

...DK stated that it is usually non-Chrisitians that state the pagan origins...but the link I provided was to a Baptist church site.

You're right, DK did say "non-Christians" as well as lazy Christians. I took him to mean apostates looking for an excuse to reject their faith, not people who were never Christian in the first place. But I could be wrong. God knows, DK never actually designated me as his spokesperson.

 

[absinthe]

Thanks!!

No prob. Ho ho ho will never die!!

 

[MREG2]

I don't like you?! I am very, very sorry I gave you that impression. I promise you no such thing ever entered my mind.

I was just making a point about the temper of one remark. I certainly didn't mean to condemn you as a person or to question your faith.

I'm asking what is the "true" spirit of Christmas? Since God chose to incarnate through an unwed Jewish mother who found herself in greatly reduced circumstances in a foreign place (even for those who believe the story is a profound myth rather than historical fact), then I have to think the "true" spirit of Christmas has something to do with Good Will Toward All Mankind, not just those who are like us or those who believe as we do.

As such, a wish that celebrates whatever days are important to the recipient seems more sincere than one which merely asserts one's right to one's own beliefs (though I certainly support that right).

So if I know someone is Jewish, for example, I wish her a Happy Chanukah. But with strangers, I choose words that can apply to whatever the stranger finds meaningful and special.

And on that note, mreg2, I want to sincerely wish you (and Indy Law and Paladin and Dark Knight and Maral) a very, very merry Christmas indeed!

Ahhh Nova, we always bump heads when it comes to threads like these.

Yes, I went back and read my previous post and I realized I was a bit harsh. It's my mood today but that's for another thread. :boohoo: I do want to thank you for making me see the error of my ways. One day I'll learn.

I would like to think that I live in a world that when I wish someone a Merry Christmas with a smile on my face they see that I'm being sincere and not "rubbing" Christmas, Christ or my faith in their face. I'm not selective on who I wish a Merry Christmas too, hence my good will toward all mankind. But what I don't want to have to worry about is if I'm saying the right words. Adults should be able to reason that since I wish them a Merry Christmas, I am not gloating that Christ is THE man. They choose how they want to feel. Not me.

And thank you Nova for the Merry Christmas. I wish for you the same!

 

[Indy Gal]

But I could be wrong. God knows, DK never actually designated me as his spokesperson.

So funny you say that, I have had to say the same thing once or twice myself...LOL

 

[Indy Gal]

I would like to think that I live in a world that when I wish someone a Merry Christmas with a smile on my face they see that I'm being sincere and not "rubbing" Christmas, Christ or my faith in their face. I'm not selective on who I wish a Merry Christmas too, hence my good will toward all mankind. But what I don't want to have to worry about is if I'm saying the right words. Adults should be able to reason that since I wish them a Merry Christmas, I am not gloating that Christ is THE man. They choose how they want to feel. Not me.

Me too when I say it I dont even think of my faith I think I am being nice and wishing all a merry christmas

 

[MREG2]

I could have written that on all accounts.

Only a fool is offended at being excluded from something he/she wishes not be in involved in. People are offended today because it is fashionable and being angry and/or offended gives them the feeling of being deep or important on a level superior to the rest of us.

You bet. I have cut ties with my family. So when I hear of them having a party or some gathering, I can choose to be offended that I wasn't invited or I can go on with my life. It was after all my choice to have nothing to do with my sisters.

 

[Nova]

Ahhh Nova, we always bump heads when it comes to threads like these.

Yes, I went back and read my previous post and I realized I was a bit harsh. It's my mood today but that's for another thread. :boohoo: I do want to thank you for making me see the error of my ways. One day I'll learn.

I would like to think that I live in a world that when I wish someone a Merry Christmas with a smile on my face they see that I'm being sincere and not "rubbing" Christmas, Christ or my faith in their face. I'm not selective on who I wish a Merry Christmas too, hence my good will toward all mankind. But what I don't want to have to worry about is if I'm saying the right words. Adults should be able to reason that since I wish them a Merry Christmas, I am not gloating that Christ is THE man. They choose how they want to feel. Not me.

And thank you Nova for the Merry Christmas. I wish for you the same!

I promise you, I take your wish for my Merry Christmas in exactly the spirit you intend. Thank you!

(Although I stand by my reasoning on the inclusiveness of certain holiday greetings, I don't think this is an issue where we need to beat up on anybody over her choice of words. And I don't think that happens very often, though, as I said, some businesses may require employees to use inclusive greetings. As is their right, surely.)

 

[MREG2]

Honestly, IG, I don't think "PC ppl" are doing that (except for the ongoing conflict over religious displays on government property, as you know).

I am so often accused of being PC here, I assume I am empowered to speak for my "tribe."

hmm...

 

[Dark Knight]

Ember, I don't think Dark Knight was arguing that pagan holidays and elements weren't incorporated into the celebration of Christmas. He knows that.

He just meant that ancient pagan associations are a poor excuse to ignore the greater truth of the occasion.

Why thank you, Nova! You saved me a reply, lol! Well said!