Terrible Thought

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Did John and Lucinda experience exactly everything in their marriage as he and Patsy experienced in their marriage? Was Lucinda a former Miss America contestant? Did Lucinda have that which made her a woman destroyed by stage 4 ovarian cancer? Did Lucinda enter Beth and/or Melinda in child beauty pageants and make them look older than what they really were?

It's also a good idea to look into John's business and its dubious connections and dealings. Supposedly computer software - but did it really deal in *advertiser censored* and money laundering?
 
Did John and Lucinda experience exactly everything in their marriage as he and Patsy experienced in their marriage? Was Lucinda a former Miss America contestant? Did Lucinda have that which made her a woman destroyed by stage 4 ovarian cancer? Did Lucinda enter Beth and/or Melinda in child beauty pageants and make them look older than what they really were?

It's also a good idea to look into John's business and its dubious connections and dealings. Supposedly computer software - but did it really deal in *advertiser censored* and money laundering?
 
This is a terrible thought, however, how many mothers are willing to sexualize their daughters at the age of 3 or 4 or 5, etc.? What if Patsy "pimped out" her daughter? What if something happened that night with a "night time visitor"? Patsy did the pimping and then she had to cover up for the terrible damage done to her daughter because of Her actions. I know it sounds terrible, but.....

Hi Dutch, I'm sorry how I responded to you. To answer your question (and I am anti-*advertiser censored*, anti-prostitution, and anti-sexual exploitation). I think I was upset at how you only blamed the mother, and not the father.

I am not so sure if all those stories about the sexual predators getting near JB are true. That does NOT mean that they did not harm other children or adult women. Yes, I think they did harm other children and perhaps adult women.

Regarding Santa - I definitely do consider him to be a sexual predator. However, he is not a suspect because he was recovering from heart surgery. Plus he had several witnesses. Remember that just because there were LOTS of other sexual predators in the neighborhood doesn't mean that they necessarily hurt JB - but we also have to be concerned ABOUT THE OTHER VICTIMS, WHETHER THEY ARE OTHER CHILDREN OR ADULT WOMEN.

There are several issues with your assumptions: 1) John was very controlling, so if they were pimping out JB, we would also have to hold John the father also responsible. Surely, he would know what was going on. John masterminded everything, so he would have to be held responsible; 2) It's unlikely that Patsy could chase a sexual predator out of the house. It would be more likely that he would flee once he saw an adult women. Patsy was a fairly small woman. 3) A routine "sexual predator" would not have interest in framing the mother. He would have interest in framing the father.

Also, due to John the father being very controlling and masterminding everything, he would have to also be held accountable, if your suspicions were true.

Now, I am very anti-*advertiser censored* and anti-prostitution. But pedophile rings and *advertiser censored* rings and human trafficking do TARGET upper-middle class women and children, but not generally children from WEALTHY families. Maybe I should NOT mention this, since there are always exceptions. But my assumptions is that the neighborhood had a lot of sexual abusers (of both children and adult women), but they did not necessarily target either JB or Burke. Maybe I am saying that just because they did NOT abuse JB or Burke, that we should still hold them accountable for crimes against other children?

Lastly, John's business had very dubious connections and dealings. Supposedly the company dealt in computer software, but that may have been a front. Was it involved in *advertiser censored* rings and money laundering? And if so, those would have ties to drug dealing and organized crime. But it's also possible that what I have read about the company is totally false. Maybe it's part of John's narrative to shift blame somewhere else.

One of the problems with shifting the blame onto pedophile rings and child *advertiser censored* and human trafficking is this: John the father and John Andrew are purposely promoting these scenarios. They want to shift the blame onto pedophile rings, *advertiser censored* rings, prostitution rings - plus also onto Pasty, the mother, and Burke (JB's 9-year-old brother). Could Burke have committed sexual assault and murder? Yes, but he would not be mature enough to frame the mother.

So, we must always be aware that John the father is pushing this narrative.

I'm in Canada and a Liberal (social democrat actually). Politics in Canada are far less polarized than in the United States and Canada. So this provides me with a balanced perspective. I am able to oppose child exploitation without a political agenda.(We do NOT have the Qanon theory in Canada. In fact, conspiracy theories are NOT popular in Canada.)

An example of a balanced perspective is that I do think pedophile rings and human traffickers (of adult women as well) did circulate in the Ramseys circle (not so much from the beauty pageants, though they do attract pedophiles, but FROM JOHN'S BUSINESS CONNECTIONS AND DEALINGS), but I doubt that Epstein and Ghislaine Maxwell were involved. It would be a mistake to not acknowledge other evil individuals as well.

In this case, I doubt the beauty pageants had anything to do with JB's sexual abuse and murder. (Remember that Burke was not in beauty pageants, and I suspect that he was also sexually abused.)

Though I do oppose beauty pageants, and they are NOT a part of Canadian culture. (We have a Miss Canada pageant, but most Canadians are not aware of this.)

So, given the two motives of 1) silencing JB so that she could not report PRIOR abuse; and 2) framing the mother:

John the father and John Andrew had those two motives. Perhaps they worked together? If so, John the father probably gave the mother a sedative so that she would sleep soundly that night.

It's also important to acknowledge that this was a premeditated murder, not an accident.

Don't worry: John and/or John Andrew will be arrested, charged and convicted! Remember that John Ramsey is getting older now. What if he has an operation and is given anaesthesia? He might let the truth out. Please correct me if I am wrong about anaesthesia, and letting the truth slip out.
 
Did John and Lucinda experience exactly everything in their marriage as he and Patsy experienced in their marriage? Was Lucinda a former Miss America contestant? Did Lucinda have that which made her a woman destroyed by stage 4 ovarian cancer? Did Lucinda enter Beth and/or Melinda in child beauty pageants and make them look older than what they really were?

Nedra and Don Paugh were weird, no doubt.
I knew Melinda. I can tell you about her strong values and her sweet shyness. I think she had deep hurts related to the tragedies surrounding her father.

I never met Patsy. I did meet John, and my husband knew him better than I did.
I'm not sure what your point is, but I NEVER said John or Lucinda were responsible for JonBenet's death, and likely, not for an unhappy day in her life.
I believe John adored his children.
I believe Patsy loved her two children dearly as well, but the Paugh family was likely not an extremely healthy family. This didn't make her a murderer, but does influence how she responded to stressors/ disasters.

NO one factor means everyone living and coming and going in the Boulder house were emotionally healthy or fell within the nomenclature of " normal behavior for age", either.

Human behavior is self- directed after adolescence. Every person in prison was someone's little boy or little girl!
 
It's also a good idea to look into John's business and its dubious connections and dealings. Supposedly computer software - but did it really deal in *advertiser censored* and money laundering?
NO. When it was " Access Graphics" in Boulder, John was a wholesaler to Lockheed Martin for their employee workstation personal computers, and possibly other companies as well, as I understand it.
 
Did John and Lucinda experience exactly everything in their marriage as he and Patsy experienced in their marriage? Was Lucinda a former Miss America contestant? Did Lucinda have that which made her a woman destroyed by stage 4 ovarian cancer? Did Lucinda enter Beth and/or Melinda in child beauty pageants and make them look older than what they really were?

LUCINDA was destroyed by Beth's death. I know this.
I had a working relationship with a family member.
Death touched her as well as Patsy, but in different ways.
 
Guess this is directed to Seeking Jana:

And John Andrew may have committed premeditated murder to keep JB from talking? And to get back at John and Patsy?

So, John Andrew did the blow to the head? And then Patsy assumed JB would die anyway, so she did the garrote? (Whereas a more sensible person might pretend that the little girl slipped and hit her head against the bathtub.)

Patsy killed the daughter with the garrote? Or John and/or Patsy found JB almost dead from the head injury? And then AFTER they staged the garrote?
 
Nedra and Don Paugh were weird, no doubt.
I knew Melinda. I can tell you about her strong values and her sweet shyness. I think she had deep hurts related to the tragedies surrounding her father.

I never met Patsy. I did meet John, and my husband knew him better than I did.
I'm not sure what your point is, but I NEVER said John or Lucinda were responsible for JonBenet's death, and likely, not for an unhappy day in her life.
I believe John adored his children.
I believe Patsy loved her two children dearly as well, but the Paugh family was likely not an extremely healthy family. This didn't make her a murderer, but does influence how she responded to stressors/ disasters.

NO one factor means everyone living and coming and going in the Boulder house were emotionally healthy or fell within the nomenclature of " normal behavior for age", either.

Human behavior is self- directed after adolescence. Every person in prison was someone's little boy or little girl!

I do trust you will be able to point out where I said that you said that John and Lucinda were responsible for JonBenet's death.

1. Was Lucinda a former beauty queen/Miss America contestant, yes or no?
2. Did Lucinda have that which made her a woman and a mother destroyed by stage 4 ovarian cancer, yes or no?
3. Did Lucinda make Beth and Melinda look older than what they really were?
 
Nedra and Don Paugh were weird, no doubt.
I knew Melinda. I can tell you about her strong values and her sweet shyness. I think she had deep hurts related to the tragedies surrounding her father.

I never met Patsy. I did meet John, and my husband knew him better than I did.
I'm not sure what your point is, but I NEVER said John or Lucinda were responsible for JonBenet's death, and likely, not for an unhappy day in her life.
I believe John adored his children.
I believe Patsy loved her two children dearly as well, but the Paugh family was likely not an extremely healthy family. This didn't make her a murderer, but does influence how she responded to stressors/ disasters.

NO one factor means everyone living and coming and going in the Boulder house were emotionally healthy or fell within the nomenclature of " normal behavior for age", either.

Human behavior is self- directed after adolescence. Every person in prison was someone's little boy or little girl!
Can you comment on your thoughts around Melinda's finance (now husband) saying that John told him he "found the body around 11"?
 
Can you comment on your thoughts around Melinda's finance (now husband) saying that John told him he "found the body around 11"?

Was it that Stewart said that John said to him "I found the body around 11"? Or was it that Stewart converted the time John told him (10 a.m. MT) to Duluth time (11 a.m. CT)?
 
Was it that Stewart said that John said to him "I found the body around 11"? Or was it that Stewart converted the time John told him (10 a.m. MT) to Duluth time (11 a.m. CT)?
It doesn’t make any difference which time zones or if converted even to eastern time. It is all way before they actually found the body.
 
Can you comment on your thoughts around Melinda's finance (now husband) saying that John told him he "found the body around 11"?

No. I know nothing about the provenance of the alleged quote, nor why or if it was made.
Sometimes, the police will put out a tiny bit of disinformation to try to get to the heart of the whole truth.

I know Melinda from before her marriage to Dr. Long, but not since she married and left to start married life.
 
I do trust you will be able to point out where I said that you said that John and Lucinda were responsible for JonBenet's death.

1. Was Lucinda a former beauty queen/Miss America contestant, yes or no?
2. Did Lucinda have that which made her a woman and a mother destroyed by stage 4 ovarian cancer, yes or no?
3. Did Lucinda make Beth and Melinda look older than what they really were?

This is an unsubstantiated line of repetitious and salacious questions about PATSY RAMSEY and you know it.

Lucinda was a most gracious lady, and from what I knew of one of her daughters, was a beloved mother.
I don't understand your GAME, so I'm not going to take any more of this comparing Lucinda to Patsy.

NO ONE has said Patsy was innocent of all things, or that she was an even- tempered person. Doesn't mean she killed her precious little girl, though. Most people I know treat their children like they are royalty anyway. There's never a question whether the child is loved and well treated.

Leave Lucinda alone and if you have something to say about PATSY as all your shallow rhetoric is about, then stand up and talk about PATSY. Do not have a strawman argument putting Lucinda in Patsy's place.

I will not be answering you again. What you are doing is not mentally healthy or normal, IMO.
 
Guess this is directed to Seeking Jana:

And John Andrew may have committed premeditated murder to keep JB from talking? And to get back at John and Patsy?

So, John Andrew did the blow to the head? And then Patsy assumed JB would die anyway, so she did the garrote? (Whereas a more sensible person might pretend that the little girl slipped and hit her head against the bathtub.)

Patsy killed the daughter with the garrote? Or John and/or Patsy found JB almost dead from the head injury? And then AFTER they staged the garrote?

Remember JBR's tiny size. She weighed 30 pounds. It is no stretch to believe that the person who abused her, did so again the night of the murder. There are many elements of this crime. It's the crazy quilt of murders if there ever was a jumbled up mess.

Has the murder been solved? Nope. Was there a stranger in the house? I certainly believe that if there was, the person would have stayed out of the basement. Basements trap the perp. in. A person has to have an escape route as well as an entrance point, unless they live in the house and come and go at will anyway.

I do not believe John or Patsy abused or killed their daughter. I believe they came upon a horrific scene, figured out who was responsible ( or he may have confessed in a confrontation) and they tried to save their LIVING family members at that time. A life in prison is like a death to many people, including parents.

Food for thought: Some people lack the ability to organize their thoughts and actions well under pressure.
Did you know that Patsy and John left 3 year old Burke in their home alone when Patsy went to the hospital in Atlanta to deliver JonBenet? She was in labor, she said " GO".
Her sister was " on her way" to stay with Burke or take him to her house, but she had not arrived when they left.

3 years old, left alone in a house in a suburb of Atlanta, a major city.
How do I know? The Ramseys wrote about it in " Death of Innocence" like that evening was ALL about JonBenet's coming into the world, with no thought to the little boy left behind. At 3 years old, they left their little boy was all by himself as they hurried to the hospital.

I could be wrong, but I believe that most people, if faced with an impending delivery of a baby, would have called 911 for the mother, and followed in the car WITH THE 3 YEAR OLD in his car seat!!!
One of them lacked good judgment and got her way about most things. Doesn't mean she killed her daughter, though.
 
This is an unsubstantiated line of repetitious and salacious questions about PATSY RAMSEY and you know it.

Lucinda was a most gracious lady, and from what I knew of one of her daughters, was a beloved mother.
I don't understand your GAME, so I'm not going to take any more of this comparing Lucinda to Patsy.

NO ONE has said Patsy was innocent of all things, or that she was an even- tempered person. Doesn't mean she killed her precious little girl, though. Most people I know treat their children like they are royalty anyway. There's never a question whether the child is loved and well treated.

Leave Lucinda alone and if you have something to say about PATSY as all your shallow rhetoric is about, then stand up and talk about PATSY. Do not have a strawman argument putting Lucinda in Patsy's place.

I will not be answering you again. What you are doing is not mentally healthy or normal, IMO.

To claim that just because John didn't sexually molest his daughters from his first marriage means he didn't sexually molest JonBenet is very naïve.
 
This is an unsubstantiated line of repetitious and salacious questions about PATSY RAMSEY and you know it.

Lucinda was a most gracious lady, and from what I knew of one of her daughters, was a beloved mother.
I don't understand your GAME, so I'm not going to take any more of this comparing Lucinda to Patsy.

NO ONE has said Patsy was innocent of all things, or that she was an even- tempered person. Doesn't mean she killed her precious little girl, though. Most people I know treat their children like they are royalty anyway. There's never a question whether the child is loved and well treated.

Leave Lucinda alone and if you have something to say about PATSY as all your shallow rhetoric is about, then stand up and talk about PATSY. Do not have a strawman argument putting Lucinda in Patsy's place.

I will not be answering you again. What you are doing is not mentally healthy or normal, IMO.

Sorry because I don't think the post was for me. But I think Icedtea was suggesting that John may not have been so innocent with JBR (and he may have harmed Burke as well?). I don't think Icedtea was going after Patsy.

Just tell me to shut up if you want.

And why the garrote and strangulation? Assuming that they found JBR dead or almost dead from head trauma? Why not claim the little girl went up to go to the bathroom, and hit her head on the bathtub?

Even Susan Smith did NOT stage a "sexual crime."

As for: they came upon a horrific scene - the person may have confessed? Can I assume that we are talking about premeditated murder? Because I think whoever did the murder, did it to 1) stop JB from reporting PREVIOUS sexual abuse.; and 2) maybe to frame Patsy. He would want to get Patsy out of the way.

He may have also abused Burke, but Burke may not be taken seriously if he said he was abused. I'm pretty sure autistic children are not taken as seriously if they report abuse.
 
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This is the first theory that does not have a lack of sense for me.

Are we referring to the prostitution issue?

Okay, because I am anti-*advertiser censored*, anti-prostitution, and anti-sexual exploitation - I certainly have considered this.

And it does seem to fit into the Grand Jury equation. Stephen Singular in his book hinted that it was John Ramsey who did this, and that he hid it from Patsy. (Keep in mind that I believe John composed the ransom note.) I think Singular's rough draft or notes may have been admitted to Grand Jury evidence.

1) Why is Patsy always blamed? Could have been John. (John's business - many have suggested that it served the digital end of *advertiser censored* rings; Subic Bay - stronger evidence of its links to prostitution, both of adult women and children)

2) Ramseys were wealthy - did not need the money.

3) Assuming the crime happened at the Ramsey's evidence: why use Patsy's paintbrush? (part of staging?). And personally, I do not believe this element of the crime scene was staged.

4) *advertiser censored* rings and prostitution rings do not generally target children of wealthy families; therefore, this suggests that at least one parent granted access/permission to the abuser(s)

5) More likely to be John who granted access/permission to the abuser(s), since he put JB to bed. (And as per Stephen Singular.)

6) Would explain why murder not yet solved: *advertiser censored* and prostitution have ties to organized crime. Law enforcement and district attorney may be fearful to arrest.

7) Explains why the Ramseys appear to NOT want the killer(s) found.

Just raises more questions than it answers. Anyone have any thought. By the way, I am JDI and tend to belive John cast suspicion on Patsy, Burke and John Andrew.
 

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