TH and potential evidence

[Alyssa2013]

I would consider a "smoking gun" to be new evidence...a new DNA match...something that people missed before...not a rehashing of old evidence claiming to be new.

 

[reedus23]

But, that's never going to happen is it?

The 3 convicted who later plead guilty are the right ones and they will never be exonerated of this horrible crime against 3 children.

I don't think you understand. IF, and that's IF, a suspended imposition of sentence works in Arkansas as it does here, then it's not a question of whether it is going to happen. It already has. They were already given a 10 year suspended imposition of sentence and if those 10 years are served without incident then there is NO CONVICTION and NO GUILTY plea EVER on their record. It will not exist anywhere but in people's imaginations. After 10 years, you can run a criminal background check and it won't show up. After 10 years, you can ask them under oath if they've ever been convicted of or plead guilty to a felony and they can honestly answer no.

Their conviction already never exists. It was already overturned by the Court when it granted a new trial. So, frankly, the WM3 have NEVER had a legal conviction against them. If it were a legally sound conviction, a new trial would have NEVER been granted. So really, no one should ever be using the fact that they were convicted as an argument of guilt because it doesn't exist.

 

[reedus23]

Absolutely. It most certainly would warrant reopening the case and reinvestigating. Right now there is no smoking gun. From the prosecution stand point they have three people that plead guilty for this crime. The case is most certainly closed! Done! Prosecuted and convicted.

Its only still open in the minds of the supporters of these three.

Now, if a smoking gun is found, it should be reinvestigated. If they are innocent, unfortunately they will have to prove it themselves. It is not the prosecutions job to prove them innocent, they have already proved them guilty.

Should Terry Hobbs have been investigated at the time. Absolutely. Should Terry Hobbs be investigated by the police now, absolutely not. From their standpoint it is closed. You don't keep investigating people when you find the perpetrator.

Thanks NC. I wanted to make sure that the simple fact that they entered an Alford Plea wasn't the reason you were against an investigation. Correct me if I'm wrong, but what you are saying is that the evidence brought to light so far simply doesn't rise to the level of justifying an investigation, in this case of Hobbs. I might disagree, but I can respect that opinion.

I'd be curious as to what kind of evidence, in your opinion, would justify opening an investigation into Hobbs as an example.

 

[reedus23]

1. Hair with same mtDNA.
2. Mildred French incident
3. Child physical abuse
4. Child sexual abuse
5. No alibi for the night in question.
6. Inconsistent statements concerning the night in question.
7. Pocket knife found in his possession.
8. Never called LE to report missing until after picking Pam up.
9. The statements/affidavits concerning "The Hobb's Family Secret".
10. Inmate statements/affidavits
11. His avoidance of answering questions.
12. Potential lies (i.e. never saw kids that day though other witnesses say otherwise).
13. Fibers in knife that could be consistent with the shoe laces(read this somewhere I believe)
14. Questionable behavior following the murders.
15. No search to exclude TH in the first place (will include lack of investigation into Hobbs at all here instead of breaking out every thing the WMPD failed to do as it relates to TH).
16. Jackie Hicks Jr. incident.
17. Demeanor (separated this from inconsistent statements as it's a bit different and refers to how he reacts to different stimuli and his apparent belief that he is above the law by not answering questions posed).
18. Never informed Pam that Stevie could not be found.
19. Worked in a slaughterhouse.
20. TH places himself at the scene in and around the time the murders would have occurred.
21. Treasures or trophies?
22. Relation to the deceased.
23. Residence in proximity to murder scene.

Updated. If we're talking about reasons that would give reason to investigate Hobbs, I added the last 2. They've been discussed obviously, but I didn't have them broken out on the list.

 

[Alyssa2013]

The Mildred French incident, IMO, was really really creepy. And didn't she also claim that he killed her cat?

 

[reedus23]

The Mildred French incident, IMO, was really really creepy. And didn't she also claim that he killed her cat?

Ah, you mean the lady Hobbs later claims he never heard of. Yes, creepy, or worse IMO.

 

[Compassionate Reader]

That was my impression when I started looking into this case earlier this year, but I've since come to realize there's simply a smokescreen around the smoking gun, as detailed here.

I'm sorry, but continuing to abuse a grapefruit isn't really a "smoking gun" IMO. As someone else said, there is nothing new in the link you provided, just another opinion about things that have already been discussed.

 

[missy_g]

LOL. abusing a grapefruit.


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

 

[reedus23]

1. Hair with same mtDNA.
2. Mildred French incident
3. Child physical abuse
4. Child sexual abuse
5. No alibi for the night in question.
6. Inconsistent statements concerning the night in question.
7. Pocket knife found in his possession.
8. Never called LE to report missing until after picking Pam up.
9. The statements/affidavits concerning "The Hobb's Family Secret".
10. Inmate statements/affidavits
11. His avoidance of answering questions.
12. Potential lies (i.e. never saw kids that day though other witnesses say otherwise).
13. Fibers in knife that could be consistent with the shoe laces(read this somewhere I believe)
14. Questionable behavior following the murders.
15. No search to exclude TH in the first place (will include lack of investigation into Hobbs at all here instead of breaking out every thing the WMPD failed to do as it relates to TH).
16. Jackie Hicks Jr. incident.
17. Demeanor (separated this from inconsistent statements as it's a bit different and refers to how he reacts to different stimuli and his apparent belief that he is above the law by not answering questions posed).
18. Never informed Pam that Stevie could not be found.
19. Worked in a slaughterhouse.
20. TH places himself at the scene in and around the time the murders would have occurred.
21. Treasures or trophies?
22. Relation to the deceased.
23. Residence in proximity to murder scene.
24. Alleged substance abuser.

Updated. If we're talking about reasons that would give reason to investigate Hobbs, I added the last 2. They've been discussed obviously, but I didn't have them broken out on the list.

Another that we didn't have on the list. I think by his own admission, he abused drugs. Well, I think he denied abusing drugs, I think it was more along the lines of admitting to the proper use of cocaine or whatever drug it was. Speaking of which, is there any clear indication of what, if any, drugs were his drugs of choice at the time of the murders?

 

[UdbCrzy2]

Terry Hobbs is not a suspect. Maybe to the supporters he is, but that's the only ones accusing him. He is considered a victim in this case, his step-son was brutally murdered by three who were convicted by two juries and who later plead guilty to Felony Murder.

I cannot believe supporters continue to bully a crime victim.

 

[kyleb]

I'm shocked this goes on in this forum given the [ame="http://www.websleuths.com/forums/showthread.php?t=91068"]rules regarding rumors[/ame]:

Many posters have been requesting Rumor Threads on several cases. We do have a Rumor Thread in the members only part of WS about Haleigh Cummings. The reason we did this was because an overwhelming amount of locals who knew both families wanted to post. The best way to handle that situation was to have a rumor thread in the private area. However, I don't want rumor threads on all the cases. Too much time is needed to moderate a rumor thread and it can get very weary.

It would be naive of me not to recognize the aspect of rumors in cases like Elizabeth Olten and Somer. Therefore we are going to try something different.

If you are a local and you have heard a rumor that is not ridiculous post it clearly as a rumor.

I won't check if you say you are a local. This is different than saying you know the family.

If this doesn't work out because people start relying on rumors or repeating rumors as fact we will change it back.

 

[ScarlettScarpetta]

Terry Hobbs is not a suspect. Maybe to the supporters he is, but that's the only ones accusing him. He is considered a victim in this case, his step-son was brutally murdered by three who were convicted by two juries and who later plead guilty to Felony Murder.

I cannot believe supporters continue to bully a crime victim.

The only reason that TH is not a legal suspect is because the DA can not stand to choke down the fact they got the wrong people. If they call TH a suspect they have to then admit they were wrong about The WM3 and clear them.

 

[UdbCrzy2]

The only reason that TH is not a legal suspect is because the DA can not stand to choke down the fact they got the wrong people. If they call TH a suspect they have to then admit they were wrong about The WM3 and clear them.

That's nonsense.

The three plead guilty and they could have had a new trial. They have claimed that they 'want to prove they are innocent' and 'have new evidence', but the truth is that it's just nonsense.

You have no proof of such a claim that you have made either do you?

 

[Cappuccino]

The only reason that TH is not a legal suspect is because the DA can not stand to choke down the fact they got the wrong people. If they call TH a suspect they have to then admit they were wrong about The WM3 and clear them.

TH should have been a suspect in the first place. If he had been maybe he would have been cleared and we wouldn't be talking about him now. But the fact that LE never even looked at him leaves a cloud of suspicion hanging over his head, and probably always will.

 

[ScarlettScarpetta]

That's nonsense.

The three plead guilty and they could have had a new trial. They have claimed that they 'want to prove they are innocent' and 'have new evidence', but the truth is that it's just nonsense.

You have no proof of such a claim that you have made either do you?

No. That is reality. TH has a link to a hair found at the crime scene. in the KNOT of the ligature. Not the WM3. TH.

He should have been a suspect from the beginning but they had bigger more exciting suspects. Devil worshippers to parade around.

TH is not a legal suspect now because it would just bring more disgrace to an already disgraced Prosecution.

 

[kyleb]

TH should have been a suspect in the first place.

Because he was a creep over a decade before the murders to Mildred French? I mean that's all there at the was at the time to even consider him a potential suspect, eh? Have I overlooked something notable, or is the rest of what's posted here just a few allegations and and a bunch of rumors which didn't surface until long after the murders?

If he had been maybe he would have been cleared and we wouldn't be talking about him now.

Seeing as how being investigated and cleared didn't stop Byers from being the victim of a decade and a half long effort to scapegoat him for the murders, it's absurd to imagine that it would've kept the cloud of suspension from being cast on Hobbs when the witch hunt against Byers finally petered out. Perhaps Diana Moore will be next. After all, her timeline has plenty of holes of opportunity in it too, and many of the hairs found at the murder site are consistent with her mtDNA.

 

[Cappuccino]

TH should have been a suspect for no other reason that he was one of the victims' step father. All the other parents had their alibis checked, even Ricky Lee Murray who lived in another state. The other two victims' homes were searched for exclusionary fibres. The neighbours of the other two also seem to have been more carefully canvassed, because the WMPD missed the neighbours three doors down from the Hobbs home.

Terry Hobbs was never questioned, his main alibi witness was never questioned and his home never searched. If that had been done 20 years ago, and if he'd been eliminated from suspicion then, anyone who was accusing him now would be taken about as seriously as the nons who accuse Domini Teer of involvement, ie, a small minority who nobody really takes any notice of on either side.

As it is, 14 years had passed before his movements that night were questioned, before David Jacoby was questioned, before the neighbours came forward with their story about seeing Hobbs with the three children that evening. And memories get fuzzy after 14 years, so his chances of clearing himself now are very low. If Hobbs is innocent, he should be very annoyed with the WMPD over that.

 

[Mrs G Norris]

This is the kind of nonsense being discussed around 'potential new suspects' ...

A witness says several years after the killings, Buddy Lucas admitted he and the three others took part in the murders.

The paperwork says Hobbs and Jacoby invited Lucas and Hollingsworth, who were teens at the time to go with them and get high.

It says the four were drinking and smoking pot when Hobbs saw several kids spying on them.

The affidavit claims Jacoby grabbed one of the children and beat him severely while Hobbs ordered Lucas and Hollingsworth to grab and hold the other two boys.

The witness says Lucas told him Hobbs killed the boys with a pocket knife and mutilated their bodies.

Lucas, who is described as being mentally ‘slow,’ was reportedly sent away from the area for several years immediately after the incident.

The witness states once he learned what happened he contacted the West Memphis police but no one returned his call.

I'd love to know who this 'witness' is. The list gets ever longer though.

http://wreg.com/2013/03/27/hearing-held-today-about-west-memphis-3-evidence/

 

[Cappuccino]

What you don't seem to understand, Mrs G Norris, is that none of that has anything to do with the wm3, their defense, or even the large majority of wm3 supporters. That was merely Ken Swindle's attempt to prove to a court that the investigation was closed, and therefore his clients should be allowed to view the evidence.

 

[reedus23]

Terry Hobbs is not a suspect. Maybe to the supporters he is, but that's the only ones accusing him. He is considered a victim in this case, his step-son was brutally murdered by three who were convicted by two juries and who later plead guilty to Felony Murder.

I cannot believe supporters continue to bully a crime victim.

I'm assuming you're talking about someone else. I am neither a supporter nor a non. Suspect is probably too strong of a word, but investigated or potential suspect I would agree with, as is the case in nearly every murder. Look into and investigate those close to the victim and work your way out.