The 90 minutes Terri spent driving around--Do you believe it?

[SmoothOperator]

A horrid theory I have, assuming TH harmed Kyron, would be that she left with him from the school, alive. That she planned this in advance but as with most criminals, the reality of the situation is different from what is imagined. So she had a plan that perhaps did not pan out as she thought it would. She either took him around with her to a couple of FM's, telling him to stay low in the car while she went in, or she left him at home alone or with a third party when she went to do errands. Then she reconnected with him, told him they were going to the doctors, and drove around looking for a good location. She found a nearby remote area, pulled over, took him out of the truck, either having left the baby with a third party or leaving the baby in the truck, strangled or suffocated Kyron outside of the truck and then dumped his body very close to where he was killed. I pray this is wrong, wrong, wrong. It chills me and makes me sick, the thought of someone actually harming another that way. But her story about driving around with a sick baby is hinky to me under the circumstances. I think this is when she harmed and/or hid Kyron.

1st portion Above BBM.I have VERY SIMILAR THOUGHTS OR POSSIBLE THEORIES..

Originally Posted By SmoothOperator
On 8/2/2010
Begin snip~
IMO Terri is involved in "whatever" happened to Kyron on June 4th and I too(as does DY and TY) think that it was a long time coming as far as Terri planning for Kyron's disappearance and deciding ahead of time that specific day[IMO most likely because of chaotic/hectic nature of an event such as science fair]is why she planned it for that specific day. As others have alluded its quite possible that there may have been 1 or 2 other "attempts" on other specific hectic or chaotic days of this school year, but any number of things could've gone wrong and made her have to wait for another opportunity. IMO she was desperate to make June 4th work. ~End snip

2nd portion Above BBM.. Again I have had VERY SIMILAR THOUGHTS as to your main parts of possible theory

Originally Posted By SmoothOperator
On 8/2/2010
Begin snip~
I think that Terri killed Kyron. I do not know nor does anyone except Terri and whoever she has involved(if even by just telling about it)BUT THATS AN IF Terri involved or told anyone.. There really is no way of even speculating how he died with what lil we know but I am leaning towards something such as strangulation for reasons such as its not something that would have left a whole lot of DNA as other manners would. IMO it would have taken place outside of the truck, at or near the pre determined location. near enough that she would not put Kyron back into the truck which would have lead to possible DNA(death band on the hair) and certainly enough scent for the cadaver dogs to pick up on (I believe it was butterfly1978 that found the data stating that dogs can pick up the scent of deceased person from after 2mins they have died) because of these things I do not think she ever placed Kyron at, in, or near the truck after she killed him. ~End snip

So, I too think it very well could be something similar in nature that took place that day..

Here are just a coupla other details about where Terri possibly chose to do this and hide Kyron's remains..

~Snipped from same post as above~
I think that Terri had already planned for this very much in advance. IMO she already had the majority of the "manual Labor" done prior to this day (Remember Kaine has stated that during those hours that Kaine worked on a daily basis that he could not tell you where or what Terri did, that before now there had been no reason to ever check to see) IMO Terri was able to get alot prepared and done during this time frame while Kaine was at work daily and Kyron at school.

Its IMO that she possibly dug a grave at a place that wouldn't be known to the family. I think that is somewhere not in the "near" vicinity of the home&school but not too far away either.(Although this could be anywhere within a fairly short driving distance due to the time restraints she had that day) I also think that it is INDEED Private Property that is owned by someone Terri either knows or knows of this place thru someone she knows (IMO quite possibly thru DD, that would make sense as to why DD relatives properties being searched).. But not necessarily thru DD and I think its important to add that whomevers property that she did use that they more than likely have NO CLUE WHATSOEVER that Terri did this. (Think about the vast areas of land, field, woods that some ppl have on their property. Areas that for months or even years are not even seen or walked on by anyone[ Morgan Harrington comes to mind&the huge acreage that her body was left for many many months unnoticed by anyone&only cause of major storms damaging the property was the area even looked at when she was found]... To me this more than possible to be a similar case for where Kyron is.. ~End snipped post

 

[goatman]

My Two Cents:

I was on the fence tumbling over to that witch is guilty and should fry in the beginning of this case. When it was "TH did this".

I believed then (and still do) that her actions were not what I would have done and were reprehensible, the sexting, alleged MFH plot, ect. made her a VERY odd person in my book and struck my hinky meter to "Guilty-fry her".

And then it was TH and DD, that DD somehow helped TH and that together they had knowledge of what happened to Kyron and how it happened. And that too was, while a bit more farfetched to me, was reasonable. Okay, they look slightly similar, and it is 'kinda' possible that two women can get together and 'keep their mouths' shut and WITHOUT REMORSE do this crime.

But then there was that presser almost 3 months after Kyron went missing asking for people to come forward about what they remembered 3 months previously. And that moved me right back to up the fence. To "hmm...maybe tunnel vision and now we have to go back and figure out what else might have happened".

I find the 90 minute drive entirely plausible and possible, just like I believe that a stranger/ someone NOT TH disappearing Kyron entirely plausible and possible.

 

[goatman]

I don't understand why this keeps coming up bold and first on my list of discussions.

I click on it and then realize that nothing new has been said since I posted.

Am I going mad here?

 

[Calliope]

I don't understand why this keeps coming up bold and first on my list of discussions.

I click on it and then realize that nothing new has been said since I posted.

Am I going mad here?

It's the poll. That's what keeps bumping it up.

 

[Blondie in Spokane]

So that's what was going on!! Thanks for asking the question, goatman. And thanks a bunch Caliope for answering....I noticed that happening all day yesterday and thought I was losing my mind. Too funny.....LOL

 

[Calliope]

So that's what was going on!! Thanks for asking the question, goatman. And thanks a bunch Caliope for answering....I noticed that happening all day yesterday and thought I was losing my mind. Too funny.....LOL

lol

There was another thread here with a poll, and it kept bumping to the top without new posts. I couldn't figure it out until I noticed the poll numbers had changed with each 'bump', so I guessed that was the reason. Only thing that made sense, anyway. I haven't paid attention to the poll replies on this one, but I suppose the same thing is happening.

 

[pufnstuf]

I wish we could have a thread to discuss this video #2. Looks like we discussed #1, then #2 was posted and then the thread was closed. Seems like there is a lot worth discussing in this video.

I so agree. I had not seen this video until tonight, as I was reading through old threads.

I think that Desiree is such a genuine person. And, as much as it pains me to say it, Kaine actually comes across as likeable instead of arrogant in this video, too.

From about 4:45 forward, when Kaine is talking about being very content with the job LE is doing.... says a lot.

And whoa, about baby K being a completely different child since she's been gone. I wonder what that child could tell--if she could.

Edit to add: And I'm sooo glad that he wants J's contact info, wants to continue a relationship with him, says he's always welcome in his house... that boy needs that.

 

[Lady Sleuth]

I wonder if she drove around for that lenghth of time waiting for a fatal dose she gave to Kyron to take full effect.

Lady Sleuth
jmho

 

[BeanE]

I wonder if she drove around for that lenghth of time waiting for a fatal dose she gave to Kyron to take full effect.

Lady Sleuth
jmho

If Terri is involved in Kyron's disappearance, then I've thought that was a likely scenario.

I have this personal little theory (lol) about perps that they get things on their mind, and even if they try to avoid talking about them, it comes through. That subconsciously, because things are on their mind so much, they can't help but having those things come through when they talk.

If I look at Terri in this sense, she seems to have talked a lot about "medicine" in regards to that day, and the timeframe that Kyron went missing. Although on the surface it was about "medicine" for the baby, if I envision Terri as perp, I have to think because of my little theory, that "medicine" has something to do with what Terri did with Kyron.

 

[Jo in Calif]

If Terri is involved in Kyron's disappearance, then I've thought that was a likely scenario.

I have this personal little theory (lol) about perps that they get things on their mind, and even if they try to avoid talking about them, it comes through. That subconsciously, because things are on their mind so much, they can't help but having those things come through when they talk.

If I look at Terri in this sense, she seems to have talked a lot about "medicine" in regards to that day, and the timeframe that Kyron went missing. Although on the surface it was about "medicine" for the baby, if I envision Terri as perp, I have to think because of my little theory, that "medicine" has something to do with what Terri did with Kyron.

Ah BeanE, I think you hit on it.
In the dateline interview, Desiree says 2 hours unaccounted for, correct? The second flier, the one with DeDe's picture on it, it askes for anyone seeing, Terri Horman, DeDe Spicher and a white Ford F250 anywhere in the area on June 4, the time on the Flier is between 9:45am and 1:00pm. Terri's check in time at the gym is 11:39, I believe. That puts her unaccounted time much closer to 2, hours, that's a lot of driving aimlessly about.
Can't quite figure where DeDe figures in, IMO she knows something or is involved somehow.

 

[BeanE]

Correction to my post above. Edit time has already expired. blah.

Should read "in the timeframe Kyron went missing", not "and the timeframe".

Sorry.

Jo in Calif, if you look at LE's flier from Aug 11, which was issued subsequent to the Dede flier, the timeframe for Terri is about an hour and 15 minutes.

Additionally, Terri is reported to have told LE about an hour, and when I did the math (never reliable when I do the math!), I came up with about an hour.

My personal current best estimate is about an hour.

Note that when Desiree said 2 hours unaccounted for it was prior to her having found out that Terri had gone to the Fred Meyer grocery stores. Reference 25 minute audio interview with the Oregonian. I think that's why she had previously said 2 hours.

 

[Jo in Calif]

Correction to my post above. Edit time has already expired. blah.

Should read "in the timeframe Kyron went missing", not "and the timeframe".

Sorry.

Jo in Calif, if you look at LE's flier from Aug 11, which was issued subsequent to the Dede flier, the timeframe for Terri is about an hour and 15 minutes.

Additionally, Terri is reported to have told LE about an hour, and when I did the math (never reliable when I do the math!), I came up with about an hour.

My personal current best estimate is about an hour.

Note that when Desiree said 2 hours unaccounted for it was prior to her having found out that Terri had gone to the Fred Meyer grocery stores. Reference 25 minute audio interview with the Oregonian. I think that's why she had previously said 2 hours.

The flier on the 11th of Aug is the one I was referring to, it reads. On Friday, June 4, 2010, Skyline student Kyron Horman went missing. As part of the investigation, residents of your area are being asked if they noticed any of the people or the vehicle below on that day between 9:45 am and 1:00 pm.
I'm assuming LE has Terri's time leaving the 2nd. FM at 9:45, regardless of what she told them, if they have surveillance of her leaving at 9:45, that's what I believe they are going by.
If she checked in the gym at 11:39, that's 114 minutes, unaccounted for.

 

[BeanE]

The flier on the 11th of Aug is the one I was referring to, it reads. On Friday, June 4, 2010, Skyline student Kyron Horman went missing. As part of the investigation, residents of your area are being asked if they noticed any of the people or the vehicle below on that day between 9:45 am and 1:00 pm.
I'm assuming LE has Terri's time leaving the 2nd. FM at 9:45, regardless of what she told them, if they have surveillance of her leaving at 9:45, that's what I believe they are going by.
If she checked in the gym at 11:39, that's 114 minutes, unaccounted for.

That's what I refer to as the Dede Spicher flier. It was issued on or before Aug 9 from what I've been able to determine. (The earliest news report that refers to it being distributed in the past tense was Aug 9, a Monday.)

This is the Wed Aug 11 flier below. It says 10:15 to 11:30, which is an hour and 15 minutes.

THE THIRD FOCUS IS SEEKING ANY ADDITIONAL INFORMATION ABOUT THE TRUCK AT TWO FRED MEYER STORES (LOCATIONS AND TIMES PHOTOGRAPHED AND LISTED ON THE NEXT PAGE) AS WELL AS ON OR NEAR SKYLINE BOULEVARD BETWEEN APPROXIMATELY SPRINGVILLE
ROAD & NEWBERRY ROAD INCLUDING ON OR AROUND GERMANTOWN ROAD AND / OR OLD GERMANTOWN ROAD AT APPROXIMATELY 10:15 AM TO 11:30 AM ON JUNE 4.

(Sorry for the all caps - that's a copy/paste and they had it all in caps. I'm too lazy to retype it. )

http://www.mcso.us/public/newsroom/081110_PressConferenceFlier.pdf

Since this is the most recent info from LE, it tells me they've accounted for all but that 1h 15m period.

 

[Morag]

That's what I refer to as the Dede Spicher flier. It was issued on or before Aug 9 from what I've been able to determine. (The earliest news report that refers to it being distributed in the past tense was Aug 9, a Monday.)

This is the Wed Aug 11 flier below. It says 10:15 to 11:30, which is an hour and 15 minutes.

THE THIRD FOCUS IS SEEKING ANY ADDITIONAL INFORMATION ABOUT THE TRUCK AT TWO FRED MEYER STORES (LOCATIONS AND TIMES PHOTOGRAPHED AND LISTED ON THE NEXT PAGE) AS WELL AS ON OR NEAR SKYLINE BOULEVARD BETWEEN APPROXIMATELY SPRINGVILLE
ROAD & NEWBERRY ROAD INCLUDING ON OR AROUND GERMANTOWN ROAD AND / OR OLD GERMANTOWN ROAD AT APPROXIMATELY 10:15 AM TO 11:30 AM ON JUNE 4.

(Sorry for the all caps - that's a copy/paste and they had it all in caps. I'm too lazy to retype it. )

http://www.mcso.us/public/newsroom/081110_PressConferenceFlier.pdf

Since this is the most recent info from LE, it tells me they've accounted for all but that 1h 15m period.

Here's a link to a well-thought-out post and map created by cypress:

[ame="http://www.websleuths.com/forums/showpost.php?p=5565166&postcount=680"]Websleuths Crime Sleuthing Community - View Single Post - POLL ADDED Connect The Dots-Working theories thread #2[/ame]

[

I]Driving time alone between these three points is 1 hour and 8 minutes. This doesn't take into account the time it would take to kill Kyron, dump his body, get in and out of a vehicle, park, etc[/I].

The three points are FM2, random Sauvie Island point, and Terri's gym.
Much of the unaccounted-for time must have been merely driving from place to place.

 

[Jo in Calif]

That's what I refer to as the Dede Spicher flier. It was issued on or before Aug 9 from what I've been able to determine. (The earliest news report that refers to it being distributed in the past tense was Aug 9, a Monday.)

This is the Wed Aug 11 flier below. It says 10:15 to 11:30, which is an hour and 15 minutes.

THE THIRD FOCUS IS SEEKING ANY ADDITIONAL INFORMATION ABOUT THE TRUCK AT TWO FRED MEYER STORES (LOCATIONS AND TIMES PHOTOGRAPHED AND LISTED ON THE NEXT PAGE) AS WELL AS ON OR NEAR SKYLINE BOULEVARD BETWEEN APPROXIMATELY SPRINGVILLE
ROAD & NEWBERRY ROAD INCLUDING ON OR AROUND GERMANTOWN ROAD AND / OR OLD GERMANTOWN ROAD AT APPROXIMATELY 10:15 AM TO 11:30 AM ON JUNE 4.

(Sorry for the all caps - that's a copy/paste and they had it all in caps. I'm too lazy to retype it. )

http://www.mcso.us/public/newsroom/081110_PressConferenceFlier.pdf

Since this is the most recent info from LE, it tells me they've accounted for all but that 1h 15m period.

Thanks for the link, I made copies of the other ones I have, but not that one. If LE could get the times together on all of them, I wouldn't get so confused, I'll have to have a little talk with them. Thanks again for the link.

 

[Billylee]

Here's a link to a well-thought-out post and map created by cypress:

Websleuths Crime Sleuthing Community - View Single Post - POLL ADDED Connect The Dots-Working theories thread #2

[

The three points are FM2, random Sauvie Island point, and Terri's gym.
Much of the unaccounted-for time must have been merely driving from place to place.

I keep thinking about the Logie Trail Rd. sighting. JMO, but that sounded like it really could have been a TH sighting. I know many, many times I will see a car that I think is a friend's and am "forced" to look inside to see if it's them. That sighting just made sense to me, I cannot remember what time that sighting was, but didn't the person say they thought they saw TH coming off a road just North of Logie Trail Rd? I wonder what happened to this guy, Chas?, and if LE somehow discounted his sighting. I've not heard another word about it, has anyone else? Anyway, I was wondering, where is that road in relation to this map?

 

[SacreBleu]

I keep thinking about the Logie Trail Rd. sighting. JMO, but that sounded like it really could have been a TH sighting. I know many, many times I will see a car that I think is a friend's and am "forced" to look inside to see if it's them. That sighting just made sense to me, I cannot remember what time that sighting was, but didn't the person say they thought they saw TH coming off a road just North of Logie Trail Rd? I wonder what happened to this guy, Chas?, and if LE somehow discounted his sighting. I've not heard another word about it, has anyone else? Anyway, I was wondering, where is that road in relation to this map?

Looks like round trip from FM#2 - Logie Trail - Terri's gym = approx 45 mins

 

[Dee10]

I keep thinking about the Logie Trail Rd. sighting. JMO, but that sounded like it really could have been a TH sighting. I know many, many times I will see a car that I think is a friend's and am "forced" to look inside to see if it's them. That sighting just made sense to me, I cannot remember what time that sighting was, but didn't the person say they thought they saw TH coming off a road just North of Logie Trail Rd? I wonder what happened to this guy, Chas?, and if LE somehow discounted his sighting. I've not heard another word about it, has anyone else? Anyway, I was wondering, where is that road in relation to this map?

Excellent point Billylee. It seemed credible to me too for the reasons you mentioned. Didn't the man say he was on his way to work and it was IIRC somewhere between 9:30 and 10? If so they may have ruled this out due TH was in a documented FM's location. I'll see if I can find that article to check the time.

 

[BeanE]

“I was on my way to work, driving down Highway 30,” said “Chas.”

It was Friday, June 4th, sometime between 9:15 and 9:45 in the morning. “Chas” was heading south on Highway 30, on his way to work when a white truck pulled out onto the road.

"It came out of one of these side streets, I am not exactly positive which one, but I am pretty much sure that it was north of Logie Trail road.”


http://webcache.googleusercontent.c...man+logie+trail+chas&cd=6&hl=en&ct=clnk&gl=us

 

[Donjeta]

According to Google Maps it would take 21 mins to drive from the first FM to Logie Trail Road and almost half an hour to drive from Logie Trail Road to the second FM, plus whatever it takes to drive "north of Logie Trail Road". It seems pretty hard logistically if Terri really was at the first FM at 9:12 and then Andrea saw her at the second one at about 10 am give or take.