The Abduction October 22, 1989

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nmogren said:
The entire blog is me me I I me....the only other person she gives a drop of credit to is Jared. So tell me, do you believe that Joy single handedly solved Jacob's kidnapping?


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I don't think Jacob's kidnapping has been solved by anyone yet. Bickering isn't going to accomplish that either. But, to answer what I think your question was... no, I don't think Joy has singlehandedly accomplished anything, except maybe getting Jared to open up, which truly was helpful. I guess I just didn't read her blog post in that way.
 
Lurker here, usually don't post, but as someone in media and journalism I had to pipe up that it is indeed very unfortunate that Ms. Baker doesn't attribute. This is basic ethics, basic professionalism, basic courtesy. Additionally, she cuts and pastes entire articles from other publications/writers in her posts (or she used to: she did back when I went through and read all her Jacob posts, and I left a comment about it). Both are big ethical breaches, the latter being explicit copyright infringement. Many of her posts would have to be taken down if the sources she was taking from wholesale knew. She might not know her journalistic ethics, but she ought to know them, and I am saddened to see her popping up in mainstream news media to quietly take credit for things that are very clearly not the cause of movement on the case. Maybe it's ignorance, maybe it's ego, but it's unacceptable in this profession.

I do appreciate that Patty Wetterling appreciates her pushing to keep Jacob's name and fate out there, which is absolutely understandable. It never hurts to expect more from people, though, and I expect more from Ms. Baker if she's going to call herself a professional writer in any way. Not because I'm picking on her, but because it's the bare minimum in the profession, and it's always unfortunate when a writer's unprofessionalism becomes its own side subject. It shouldn't be: but it's not the fault of those bringing it up that it's been discussed. It's squarely on her, a "player" in the case at this point.

I very much appreciate ELOC Soul's approach as a researcher and producer. I do think this is the guy, and I think there might be a direct line between his work and the focus of the investigation, but it's hard to ever know. Credit doesn't matter in the end, and we producers know that very well!

May they find something to nail this guy.
 
How easy it is to sit in judgment of someone else's actions (or non-actions) and motives behind a computer screen. If you want my opinion (which I'm sure you don't, but I'm going to give it anyway) take up your issues with Joy instead of whining about it in Jacob's thread(s). It is not helping Jacob or the Wetterlings. And isn't that why everyone is here? Forgive me, but this is just getting old.
 
I have asked her to stop infringing on real reporters' copyrights, "taking it up with her" in blog comments. Anyway, once someone has made him/herself a kind of case player by appearing in mainstream news reports about their blogging, they have opened themselves up for scrutiny. And I think it's a good thing to hold people to basic standards. No harm comes of expecting people to be honest and fair. (Again: breaking copyright law, not fair; not attributing, not fair. It's a side issue, and again it's quite understandable why the Wetterlings appreciate her keeping the case in discussion. But no one is whining. It's about ethics, and expecting ethical behavior from people is not whining.)

Anyway, I personally thought I'd weigh in as a professional with a very strong background in media ethics and attribution. I myself don't really consider her a professional writer, but if she's going to present herself as such, she needs to meet the bare-minimum ethical standards we expect of each other and hold ourselves to.

I wouldn't bother with this discussion at all if it weren't something that had hopped from her blog into mainstream media outlets. No one's whining.
 
If people want to rave about how terrific she is, do it on her blog. This isn't the place for that either.


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Personally, I don't care WHO gets credit for what.
Seems a bunch of PETTY B.S. to me.
If my child were MISSING, I would take ALL of the resources AVAILABLE and if there were personality conflicts and pissing contests in the meantime, so be it.
If writings were being " copied " or laws being broken, there are proper channels to go through for such things I'm sure.
The rest is just either people like/agree with her or they don't.
Who cares?
If what she is doing helps find Jacob, or brings the Wetterling's Peace, leave it be.
 
KeepHopeAlive said:
Fine. Complaining.

http://www.merriam-webster.com/dictionary/complain

More can be done than just leaving comments on her blog. If you want something done about it, then take further action. But it doesn't need to be brought up and discussed in every thread on Websleuths every time an article mentions her name. It's just not productive and just causes a distraction from the reason we are all here: Jacob (not Joy).
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I have popped in to discuss this one time, and this is something that's in the MSM now as a side story to the case, so it's going to come up. It's not terribly important, but it's in the news as part of the Wetterling case now.

The onus is on the writer to meet the most basic ethical guidelines, not on readers to teach her how to do her job. One comment saying "you are infringing copyright and really should take down or alter those posts" is action. I'm not sure why action by me is more important than action on the part of the person calling herself a professional writer, an investigator, someone who is presenting herself to the press as such. Could I spend my day tracking down the proper people at each publication this blogger has cut-and-pasted copyrighted content from? Yes. (That's how this all would work: the copyright holder bringing a complaint.) Could I offer to teach her basic media ethics she could teach herself, as many of us (including bloggers outside of the MSM) do and have done? Is it reasonable to expect me to take any of this "action"? No. That's pure silliness. The onus is not on the reader to teach the journalist how to attribute properly. In journalistic terms, this is like someone not knowing their ABCs.

Again, I understand why the Wetterlings appreciate her work. And really, that's another reason I would expect more from her: she has their support, she has their ears. Do right by them by doing the right thing! Patty Wetterling is amazingly strong and created whole support networks out of will and work; follow her lead and learn the ropes, do what's right, attribute and respect. Everyone is ultimately after the same thing: justice. So be just in your approach!

I am among those who think it's very encouraging that the FBI held that presser in the manner they did--they were very much signaling that they believe this is their guy. They're usually far more circumspect.
 
Hmmm, have you asked what she used it for? Maybe she may just come right out and say, who knows?
Trackergd said:
She got tracking and print evaluation information from me as well. Not sure what she did with it.
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The Dec. 13th Blog?
How??
nmogren said:
Read her latest blog post. She takes credit for everything even if it was known 26 years ago or if she had nothing to do with the discovery.


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For Patty Wetterling, the direction that the Jacob Wetterling Foundation had been taking at the time, boiled down to a one simple question.

“Is this helping to find any missing kids?” she asked. “The office was not interacting with the board, and it was not interacting with the family. It means that we're not working together, and we need to work together to go forward.”

- Behme, T. J. (1992, May 31). Wetterling Foundation Tries To Douse Internal Fires. St. Cloud Times , pp. 1A, 7A.
 
This is kind of o/t. Kevin Collins' father spoke at a symposium that Patty had. He looked at least 100 years old.

On WS here there is perhaps a new devolopment listed. Search Kevin Collins.
 
dexter75 said:
Hmmm, have you asked what she used it for? Maybe she may just come right out and say, who knows?
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I really don't care what she did with it as it is pretty much what I have said here. I offer track evaluation assistance to anyone who asks as I am not looking for credit as much as solving the case and bringing closure to the families of the missing. At 60, I really don't much care about making headlines of any sort.
 
As I have started to research the wetterling case after many years here are some questions: 1. What information did Kevin give to authorities to dismiss him as a suspect and did any police speak to the Marshall who he met through a friend at some party that encouraged him to go to authorities in 2004? 2. Why would Kevin go back to the scene the next day and claim to have turned in and backed out of DR driveway when all pictures I have seen show there being police tape blocking the front of driveway not making it impossible to even pull in driveway to back out? 3. Is this the same Kevin who claims to have been told by an inmate in prison that he and his son and others were involved in the abduction? 4. There is a photograph which says it is a picture DR took with a friend of his who is a piolet flying above his property. Did any police question DR's friend who was flying the plane to see where he was the night of the abduction? Are there any landing areas around DR property where a small plane could land and take off?? 4. Did police check for horse prints or anything like that? I do remember seeing a picture of Jacob riding a horse online. 5. I can't remember the guy's name who was from St Johns Abby and was on that same road as the abduction within an hour of the boys being abducted? Years after he was found guilty of molesting kids and believe he is in jail now. 6. Remember reading about some kid and his dad I believe who lived by Jacob and witnessed seeing a father/son in the ditch when they went into town shortly before abduction. This father/son, and I appologize for not having names, both are convicted pedophiles and believe the dad has now died. I could go on and on but I have come to the conclusion that there were more than 1 sick person involved in this. The more I research the more I think that Kevin is somehow involved and has been used as a smokescreen to throw authorities a curveball on the abduction
 
Slugbug said:
As I have started to research the wetterling case after many years here are some questions: 1. What information did Kevin give to authorities to dismiss him as a suspect and did any police speak to the Marshall who he met through a friend at some party that encouraged him to go to authorities in 2004? 2. Why would Kevin go back to the scene the next day and claim to have turned in and backed out of DR driveway when all pictures I have seen show there being police tape blocking the front of driveway not making it impossible to even pull in driveway to back out? 3. Is this the same Kevin who claims to have been told by an inmate in prison that he and his son and others were involved in the abduction? 4. There is a photograph which says it is a picture DR took with a friend of his who is a piolet flying above his property. Did any police question DR's friend who was flying the plane to see where he was the night of the abduction? Are there any landing areas around DR property where a small plane could land and take off?? 4. Did police check for horse prints or anything like that? I do remember seeing a picture of Jacob riding a horse online. 5. I can't remember the guy's name who was from St Johns Abby and was on that same road as the abduction within an hour of the boys being abducted? Years after he was found guilty of molesting kids and believe he is in jail now. 6. Remember reading about some kid and his dad I believe who lived by Jacob and witnessed seeing a father/son in the ditch when they went into town shortly before abduction. This father/son, and I appologize for not having names, both are convicted pedophiles and believe the dad has now died. I could go on and on but I have come to the conclusion that there were more than 1 sick person involved in this. The more I research the more I think that Kevin is somehow involved and has been used as a smokescreen to throw authorities a curveball on the abduction
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These have all been asked, answered and covered to death here, I would suggest reading through the threads.


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B
Trackergd said:
RBBM

I agree with you, however I cannot figure out how an expert abductor would know when the boys would pass that spot, and that one or more would meet his "criteria". What was special about Jacob? In what way did he meet the abductor or customers criteria? Was this a chance encounter while the abductor was out hunting, or had he followed the boys for a day or more?

I am 99% that a car was involved. I am about 75% that they boys did not know the abductor. Stranger on stranger crime is the hardest to solve.
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What if the abductor was targeting Jacob all along. Remember the funny feeling Jerry had at the arena? What if Jacob had been stalked for a while? I am sure in such a small place, it wouldn't be difficult to find out where the boy with WETTERLING across his hockey jersey lived.
Perhaps the abductor was lurking around that night and found his perfect opportunity when the boys biked to the store. I know there has been speculation he was even at the store.
If he wanted Jacob specifically, I shudder to think why, the abduction was probably planned.
It's possible that the perp planned to take him right from his house, and that evening's course of events made it easier for him.

JMO
 
What has LE gone and done? We had a poi, maybe he was getting railroaded, or maybe he wasn't. Now we have two poi's and somebody now is definitely getting railroaded. How much more pain can the public endure? Everyday I wake I expect this problem to be resolved snd it is just not happening. Let us have fairness back and pay the debt we owe to anyone who is now getting railroaded in this case. It's Heinrich or DR, lets go.
 
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