The Anthony Backyard *REVISITED*

[CHICANA]

Or Casey planned to chloroform her so she couldn't resist and drown her in the pool to torment Cindy. Convince Cindy she left the ladder up and her carelessness led to Caylee's death. She chloroforms her, no clue how much to use, Caylee dies and the drowning plan goes right out the window. Now she has a dead body and no plan on how to get rid of it or explain it (thus leading to the assanine story that obviously had no forethought).

I just remembered a post that sent chills down my spine when I read it. I don't really believe in the psychic mumbo jumbo although I'm sure there are some people that are very intuitive.

I remember a post (might have been on another site) where somebody had dreamed or had a vision that KC took Caylee to a park and let her play while she dug a hole then put Caylee in the hole and told her to go to sleep. When she fell asleep KC started covering her with dirt, Caylee woke up and KC hit her in the head with the shovel and finished burying her.
Chloroform would really come in handy if you didn't want any mess or didn't really want to watch someone die. She couldn't really bury her child alive, could she ?

 

[txsvicki]

No recent digging was noted in the yard except the spot in the corner by the pool showed a suspicious depression in the soil and had once had a bush there with no bamboo shoots growing or grass to have to dig out. I think that's where Casey put the body temporarily and may have done further digging the 3 days that she was backed up in the garage. Digging then cleaning out the vehicle until she was forced or decided to move the body elsewhere from the 23-27th.

 

[impatientredhead]

What we have to keep in mind here is that decomposition does not start immediately. So poor little Caylee had to be in the backyard for a certain period of time, if the hits are not from items that might have been in the trunk which had the decomp in it. It's frustrating that we don't know exactly what happened - and I don't think we ever will.

Decomp does start immediately. If the body was in the playhouse for a few hours or over night the dogs would still be able to pick up the scent.

 

[zadari]

I just remembered a post that sent chills down my spine when I read it. I don't really believe in the psychic mumbo jumbo although I'm sure there are some people that are very intuitive.

I remember a post (might have been on another site) where somebody had dreamed or had a vision that KC took Caylee to a park and let her play while she dug a hole then put Caylee in the hole and told her to go to sleep. When she fell asleep KC started covering her with dirt, Caylee woke up and KC hit her in the head with the shovel and finished burying her.
Chloroform would really come in handy if you didn't want any mess or didn't really want to watch someone die. She couldn't really bury her child alive, could she ?

omg how aweful!!! .. omg i hope that isnt how it happened .. being buried alive is my worst fear in the entire world nothing compares to it nothing :nerves::runaway::runaway:

 

[Balthazar]

I'm still suspicious about them searching the backyard for Caylee.

I snipped this from a letter purportedly from Mark Nejame to a websleuther, post 276 - Nancy Grace 10-10-08 thread:

"It is not within them though
to go on search teams that are looking to dig up a Caylee that is no longer
with us. For them to do this would be for them to surrender to themselves
and to the Universe that Caylee is no longer with us. Today they simply
cannot do this."

So he's claiming George and Cindy cannot search for a dead Caylee because they are not emotionally ready to do that. Yet they went poking around their backyard BEFORE the police came to search looking for a dead Caylee. Does anyone else see a CONTRADICTION here?

 

[TURBOTHINK]

What we have to keep in mind here is that decomposition does not start immediately. So poor little Caylee had to be in the backyard for a certain period of time, if the hits are not from items that might have been in the trunk which had the decomp in it. It's frustrating that we don't know exactly what happened - and I don't think we ever will.

Actually, decomp starts at the time of death. It is not visible except in livor mortis but it has started The instant when the heart stops beating the part of the body where the blood has settled discolors into a purplish red. The eyes flatten and the extremities turn blue. The body then putrefies, signaled by a greenish discoloration in the skin, starting in about two or three days in the lower abdomen and that is caused by the poliferation of bacteria from the intestines. This spreads throughout the abdomen then into the thighs and check. This is the point where the face swells and becomes unrecognizable.

As rot spreads the foul odor develops. Bloating by the second week makes the tongue, breasts, scortum and eyes protrude, and it pushes the intestines out through the rectum.

Soon the skin blisters from the gasses, detaches from the hair, muscles, and bursts. The top layers of skin start peeling off. *this is where the hair evidence is indictive of death. If her body is in water, there will be a cheesy like substance called "adipocere" forms as fatty tissues harden and this will keep the body preserved. **This is what I am hoping has happened in this case. ANY body that has any tissues left can be used for toxicology analysis to determine cause of death.

I can go into the insects which start on a body within minutes of death if anyone would like the information.

I believe there is SO MUCH trace evidence which will be used in this case. People have NO idea how intricate these investigations can be.

 

[TURBOTHINK]

I just remembered a post that sent chills down my spine when I read it. I don't really believe in the psychic mumbo jumbo although I'm sure there are some people that are very intuitive.

I remember a post (might have been on another site) where somebody had dreamed or had a vision that KC took Caylee to a park and let her play while she dug a hole then put Caylee in the hole and told her to go to sleep. When she fell asleep KC started covering her with dirt, Caylee woke up and KC hit her in the head with the shovel and finished burying her.
Chloroform would really come in handy if you didn't want any mess or didn't really want to watch someone die. She couldn't really bury her child alive, could she ?

I had not read that but I have contended from the beginning she hit her in the head with a shovel and why I don't know.

 

[Macushla]

Actually, decomp starts at the time of death. .

Snipped the rest of your excellent post. What I was trying to get at, and evidently didn't say very well, is that the cadaver dogs would not have picked up on a decomp smell if she had drowned or had been killed and was then removed immediately from the house/back yard. I would think there would have to be some lag time between death and moving the body for the dogs to be able to pick up on the scent. Anyone know if what I am saying is correct or can a cadaver dog detect the elements of decomp immediately?

 

[impatientredhead]

Snipped the rest of your excellent post. What I was trying to get at, and evidently didn't say very well, is that the cadaver dogs would not have picked up on a decomp smell if she had drowned or had been killed and was then removed immediately from the house/back yard. I would think there would have to be some lag time between death and moving the body for the dogs to be able to pick up on the scent. Anyone know if what I am saying is correct or can a cadaver dog detect the elements of decomp immediately?

http://www.independent.co.uk/news/s...uth-behind-the-crimescene-canines-835047.html

One of the questions surrounding human cadaver dogs is how soon after death they can recognise a corpse, and how long a "fresh" corpse must remain in one place for a dog to detect that it has been there. In a study published last year, the forensic pathologist Lars Oesterhelweg, then at the University of Bern in Switzerland, and colleagues tested the ability of three Hamburg State Police cadaver dogs to pick out – of a line-up of six new carpet squares – the one that had been exposed for no more than 10 minutes to a recently deceased person.

Several squares had been placed beneath a clothed corpse within three hours of death, when some organs and many cells of the human body are still functioning. Over the next month, the dogs did hundreds of trials in which they signalled the contaminated square with 98 per cent accuracy, falling to 94 per cent when the square had been in contact with the corpse for only two minutes. The research concluded that cadaver dogs were an "outstanding tool" for crime-scene investigation.

 

[Macushla]

http://www.independent.co.uk/news/s...uth-behind-the-crimescene-canines-835047.html

One of the questions surrounding human cadaver dogs is how soon after death they can recognise a corpse, and how long a "fresh" corpse must remain in one place for a dog to detect that it has been there. In a study published last year, the forensic pathologist Lars Oesterhelweg, then at the University of Bern in Switzerland, and colleagues tested the ability of three Hamburg State Police cadaver dogs to pick out – of a line-up of six new carpet squares – the one that had been exposed for no more than 10 minutes to a recently deceased person.

Several squares had been placed beneath a clothed corpse within three hours of death, when some organs and many cells of the human body are still functioning. Over the next month, the dogs did hundreds of trials in which they signalled the contaminated square with 98 per cent accuracy, falling to 94 per cent when the square had been in contact with the corpse for only two minutes. The research concluded that cadaver dogs were an "outstanding tool" for crime-scene investigation.

thanks for answering my question. WOW - I am even more impressed with cadaver dogs now - and I was pretty darn impressed before.

 

[momtomany]

See the pavers with the white wooden frame around them in the pic? The playhouse was sitting on them, IIRC. Now, Caylee was getting bigger, so why put the white wooden frame down with the pavers on top of the soil because at some point she would have been too big to fit in there to play?

I still say that a hole could be dug, a container could be placed in there, then lime and even fertilizer and/or other chemicals placed as well to obliterate any odor.

IMO, George very well knows where little Caylee is buried - maybe deep under the playhouse, or maybe deep under the dirt where he moved the hibiscus bush.

I am just saying that if Tim Miller of TES cannot find Caylee's body in the areas he searches, then I hope and pray that LE can get a search warrant to look at the Anthony's backyard again. Tim Miller WILL find Caylee's body whether in the back yard, out by the airport, or J. Blanchard Park! I have great faith in them!

I agree that the backyard needs to be revisited. I've had a hunch about this since the taped interviews came out. I also had my own dream, I saw something with a pattern covering her burial site. What is weird is that in my dream the site is inside the A's house, middle of the house in somewhat of tight area... I started thinking that makes no sense unless they cut thru the slab. But now that I just read your post, maybe it meant that this was Caylee's play house and not the actual A's house. In that dream I also saw Cindy kneeling down at the burial site, moving the patterned pieces and blowing kisses, she had a loving smile and it felt like she was relieved to know where is Caylee. Casey was standing right beside her, but she was rather stoic. Anyway... I so hope maybe LE are waiting to see what is revealed during the GJ. The pavers under the playhouse are different from the others around the house.

 

[Voice4theSilent]

Actually, decomp starts at the time of death. It is not visible except in livor mortis but it has started The instant when the heart stops beating the part of the body where the blood has settled discolors into a purplish red. The eyes flatten and the extremities turn blue. The body then putrefies, signaled by a greenish discoloration in the skin, starting in about two or three days in the lower abdomen and that is caused by the poliferation of bacteria from the intestines. This spreads throughout the abdomen then into the thighs and check. This is the point where the face swells and becomes unrecognizable.

As rot spreads the foul odor develops. Bloating by the second week makes the tongue, breasts, scortum and eyes protrude, and it pushes the intestines out through the rectum.

Soon the skin blisters from the gasses, detaches from the hair, muscles, and bursts. The top layers of skin start peeling off. *this is where the hair evidence is indictive of death. If her body is in water, there will be a cheesy like substance called "adipocere" forms as fatty tissues harden and this will keep the body preserved. **This is what I am hoping has happened in this case. ANY body that has any tissues left can be used for toxicology analysis to determine cause of death.

I can go into the insects which start on a body within minutes of death if anyone would like the information.

I believe there is SO MUCH trace evidence which will be used in this case. People have NO idea how intricate these investigations can be.

That information is fascinating. I know absolutely nothing about decomposing bodies other than what I read above. Is there any information that can be gained regarding how long the body was likely in the car, what state of decomp. it was in, etc. by the fact that there were flies and maggots in it at the tow yard or is it impossible to say? :waitasec:

 

[TURBOTHINK]

That information is fascinating. I know absolutely nothing about decomposing bodies other than what I read above. Is there any information that can be gained regarding how long the body was likely in the car, what state of decomp. it was in, etc. by the fact that there were flies and maggots in it at the tow yard or is it impossible to say? :waitasec:

A little on Entomology as I know it. Don't take it as gospel, but I believe it to be as accurate as I can do it.

The arrival of insects in an outdoor location is inevitable and almost immediate. The progression of these events is more or less predictable. Investigators use them to determine the amount of time passed since death. It is called the post-mortem interval or PMI.

Flies will begin colonizing the orifices and any wounds present. The egg laying sends a strong signal to other flies in the area so a body can be swarmed quickly if not covered. Eggs are deposited continuously, producing varying stages and ages present at the same time. The most important specimen collected is the oldest life stage present on the body. ***(If GA had called LE when he opened the trunk and the flies came out, they could most likely have determined how long Caylee had been dead.)

This specimen acts as a stop watch so to speak that began ticking the moment the first egg was deposited on the body. If you have the local weather information and temperatures it can closely be determined the PMI.

The life cycle of the blow fly begins with the egg laying. The egg then turns into an immature fly or maggot, which hatched from the egg. It sheds it's skin three times during that stage each larger than the last. Then it stops feeding and moves several feet away from the corpse. Then it changes into the adult stage. This is also the same with a house fly, but what is known here is the blow fly or flesh fly which are in the same group but not the same exactly the same as a house fly.

The life cycle depends upon the temperature and they require a certain number of "degree hours" or "degree days" for the larvae to develop. It is somewhat complicated but any day about 50 degrees counts toward the degree days. Ex: @70 F degrees the eggs will hatch into larvae in about 12 hours. The larvae will pupate about 12 DAYS after that and adult flies will emerge after about 8 more days. At that temp, the complete cycle would take 3 weeks at a constant temp of 70 F. If there are higher temperatures (or lower ones) or if there are drugs or poisons in the body it will affect the rate. Ex: cocaine will speed up the process; but barbiturates or poison will slow it down.

The flies which came out of that car would have to have been at least 22 days old if my calculations are close. I don't have the exact temps so it could be a little less if it was real hot, but it also could have been more if there had been a lot of cool days.

I hope this makes sense.

 

[shadow of my mind]

A little on Entomology as I know it. Don't take it as gospel, but I believe it to be as accurate as I can do it.

The arrival of insects in an outdoor location is inevitable and almost immediate. The progression of these events is more or less predictable. Investigators use them to determine the amount of time passed since death. It is called the post-mortem interval or PMI.

Flies will begin colonizing the orifices and any wounds present. The egg laying sends a strong signal to other flies in the area so a body can be swarmed quickly if not covered. Eggs are deposited continuously, producing varying stages and ages present at the same time. The most important specimen collected is the oldest life stage present on the body. ***(If GA had called LE when he opened the trunk and the flies came out, they could most likely have determined how long Caylee had been dead.)

This specimen acts as a stop watch so to speak that began ticking the moment the first egg was deposited on the body. If you have the local weather information and temperatures it can closely be determined the PMI.

The life cycle of the blow fly begins with the egg laying. The egg then turns into an immature fly or maggot, which hatched from the egg. It sheds it's skin three times during that stage each larger than the last. Then it stops feeding and moves several feet away from the corpse. Then it changes into the adult stage. This is also the same with a house fly, but what is known here is the blow fly or flesh fly which are in the same group but not the same exactly the same as a house fly.

The life cycle depends upon the temperature and they require a certain number of "degree hours" or "degree days" for the larvae to develop. It is somewhat complicated but any day about 50 degrees counts toward the degree days. Ex: @70 F degrees the eggs will hatch into larvae in about 12 hours. The larvae will pupate about 12 DAYS after that and adult flies will emerge after about 8 more days. At that temp, the complete cycle would take 3 weeks at a constant temp of 70 F. If there are higher temperatures (or lower ones) or if there are drugs or poisons in the body it will affect the rate. Ex: cocaine will speed up the process; but barbiturates or poison will slow it down.

The flies which came out of that car would have to have been at least 22 days old if my calculations are close. I don't have the exact temps so it could be a little less if it was real hot, but it also could have been more if there had been a lot of cool days.

I hope this makes sense.

Ok, So by going with your calulations that would put the body in the trunk of the car on June 24th, the day Casey would not let GA into the trunk to get the gas cans. That does not mean that Caylee had to have been killed on that day but that she was just placed in the trunk. There is no way, IMHO, the girl road around from the 16th or 17th with a dead body in her trunk. It would have smelled a lot sooner than the 27th. This makes sense to me because Casey dumps the car 3 days later on the 27th becasue of the smell.

Now my question is this: If Casey moved Caylee on the 24th from one hiding place to the trunk and on the same day hide her again, could some leaking fluids [Yuk] from the body end up in the trunk result in the same result of 22 days for full adult fly to come out of the trunk on July 15th?

Or is the Blow fly only attracted to the flesh [Yuk, Yuk] of a dead body?

Of course Casey may have kept Caylee in the trunk from the 24th to the 27th [early AM] and becasue of the smell moved her at that time and dumped the car.

 

[Thinaire]

I too, thought the bamboo digging was weird and this was before we knew anything else about her. Now knowing what we do, that bamboo thing is BS. jmo

My guess on the shovel was "leverage." Also the distance factor...as in Casey did not want to touch a deceased Caylee.

If Caylee was placed or hidden outside near the sandbox/playhouse...then its possible that KC used the shovel to roll her/leverage her onto a blanket or tarp.

I have always wanted to know if the shovel was pointed or flat....bamboo removal would call for pointed, though I think the story is BS.

I know I'll be trying to find PLENTY of distractions for myself this long weekend! Gads...cannot wait til the hard evidence comes rolling out!

 

[Cher352]

My guess on the shovel was "leverage." Also the distance factor...as in Casey did not want to touch a deceased Caylee.

If Caylee was placed or hidden outside near the sandbox/playhouse...then its possible that KC used the shovel to roll her/leverage her onto a blanket or tarp.

I have always wanted to know if the shovel was pointed or flat....bamboo removal would call for pointed, though I think the story is BS.

I know I'll be trying to find PLENTY of distractions for myself this long weekend! Gads...cannot wait til the hard evidence comes rolling out!

The idea of the shovel being used as leverage is a good one. :clap:
Hope LE had the dogs sniff it!!

 

[Voice4theSilent]

A little on Entomology as I know it. Don't take it as gospel, but I believe it to be as accurate as I can do it.

The arrival of insects in an outdoor location is inevitable and almost immediate. The progression of these events is more or less predictable. Investigators use them to determine the amount of time passed since death. It is called the post-mortem interval or PMI.

Flies will begin colonizing the orifices and any wounds present. The egg laying sends a strong signal to other flies in the area so a body can be swarmed quickly if not covered. Eggs are deposited continuously, producing varying stages and ages present at the same time. The most important specimen collected is the oldest life stage present on the body. ***(If GA had called LE when he opened the trunk and the flies came out, they could most likely have determined how long Caylee had been dead.)

This specimen acts as a stop watch so to speak that began ticking the moment the first egg was deposited on the body. If you have the local weather information and temperatures it can closely be determined the PMI.

The life cycle of the blow fly begins with the egg laying. The egg then turns into an immature fly or maggot, which hatched from the egg. It sheds it's skin three times during that stage each larger than the last. Then it stops feeding and moves several feet away from the corpse. Then it changes into the adult stage. This is also the same with a house fly, but what is known here is the blow fly or flesh fly which are in the same group but not the same exactly the same as a house fly.

The life cycle depends upon the temperature and they require a certain number of "degree hours" or "degree days" for the larvae to develop. It is somewhat complicated but any day about 50 degrees counts toward the degree days. Ex: @70 F degrees the eggs will hatch into larvae in about 12 hours. The larvae will pupate about 12 DAYS after that and adult flies will emerge after about 8 more days. At that temp, the complete cycle would take 3 weeks at a constant temp of 70 F. If there are higher temperatures (or lower ones) or if there are drugs or poisons in the body it will affect the rate. Ex: cocaine will speed up the process; but barbiturates or poison will slow it down.

The flies which came out of that car would have to have been at least 22 days old if my calculations are close. I don't have the exact temps so it could be a little less if it was real hot, but it also could have been more if there had been a lot of cool days.

I hope this makes sense.

Thank you SO very much for that information. It is amazing you know so much. I am impressed! I have another question, if you don't mind. What would have had to have been "left" in the trunk for those flies to still be in there after the body was removed? A lot of mass, just a small bit of something on the back trunk or is it impossible to say? I guess I am asking is if the flies would continue to lay eggs in a tiny bit of decomposing matter in the trunk or would it have to have been more substantial? Also, in order for the smell to have "stuck around" in the car the entire time it was at the tow yard there would have to have been something left behind in the car from the body, correct? Just having a dead body in a car without leaving anything behind (fluid, decomposing matter, etc.) wouldn't necessarily result in the car smelling as bad as it did when it was picked up from the tow yard, correct? (Sorry if my questions don't make sense...) I appreciate your input!

 

[Voice4theSilent]

My guess on the shovel was "leverage." Also the distance factor...as in Casey did not want to touch a deceased Caylee.

If Caylee was placed or hidden outside near the sandbox/playhouse...then its possible that KC used the shovel to roll her/leverage her onto a blanket or tarp.

I have always wanted to know if the shovel was pointed or flat....bamboo removal would call for pointed, though I think the story is BS.

I know I'll be trying to find PLENTY of distractions for myself this long weekend! Gads...cannot wait til the hard evidence comes rolling out!

The only problem I have with the roll/leverage theory is that I think she could have found something else around the house to use for that which wouldn't have made it necessary for her to ask a neighbor to borrow a shovel (which to me was a last resort type of move.) I can't tell you what she used the shovel for but I think it would have to be for something that she could only do with a shovel and not with something else around the house (broom handle, knife, heavy object, hammer, etc...) The only thing that comes to mind is digging. I can't think of anything else around the house that I could possibly use to dig a hole that wouldn't take me 10 times as much time and 10 times as much effort as using a shovel. I have heard theories or her wanting the shovel to break the lock on the shed door...but again, that is something she could have surely found something else around the house to do it with. I did think the idea of her using it to pry up the pavers was logical, as I have had to use a shovel to do that in the past as I couldn't come up with any other tool that would do the trick. I saw a picture somewhere of the shovel that was removed and I don't think it would have been big enough to scoop up a 30 pound body. (I am sure they have done a bunch of tests on the shovel...when I saw the picture of it...perhaps in the first document dump....it was wrapped up by LE and being removed delicately as to not disturb any evidence that might be on it.) I definitely agree she was NOT concerning herself with gardening! I, too, can't wait to hear about all the evidence against her that we have yet to lay eyes on!

 

[Thinaire]

The only problem I have with the roll/leverage theory is that I think she could have found something else around the house to use for that which wouldn't have made it necessary for her to ask a neighbor to borrow a shovel (which to me was a last resort type of move.) I can't tell you what she used the shovel for but I think it would have to be for something that she could only do with a shovel and not with something else around the house (broom handle, knife, heavy object, hammer, etc.) I saw a picture somewhere of the shovel that was removed and I don't think it would have been big enough to scoop up a 30 pound body. I definitely agree she was NOT concerning herself with gardening! I, too, can't wait to hear about all the evidence against her that we have yet to lay eyes on!

Oh lawd...now I am going to try and not get too graphic here!

Not scoop up....leverage. A stick, tool, household item (mop/broom) would not be strong enough...though long enough, not wide enough at the base.

A shovel would be strong enough, long enough and wide enough to leverage 30 pounds over/out and onto something without lifting. Like picture moving a heavy fireplace log.

I am also REALLY interested in the hibiscus (?) they moved...I am a gardener too. Course where I live you would not move a plant that large that late in the season...but I know at my mothers house in CA. I could transplant almost anything-anytime and it grew like a weed.

The thing that is keeping me from posting alot on other threads is: Nothing IMO that the Anthony's have stated can be taken as fact...and its driving me bonkers :crazy:

I am sooo ready for this to see the bright light of justice!

 

[Theonly1]

respectfully snipped...

I am also REALLY interested in the hibiscus (?) they moved...

Me too! And then we see the hibiscus photo she made or uploaded with all the poetry writing around it. It's weird.