The Box From Hell (BFH) - #1

[Dr. Doogie]

Does L L = Lloyd's of London? I know it was mentioned earlier that the "L" on the "Plan" could refer to Lloyd's of London where GW had a policy. Now on pg 6 we have "Tentative Plan" [some symbol] and then "L / L". On pg 9 we have [symbol] "L L as to how B identifies B conclusively." and "reread pol. re procedure for notifying L L of D." [I think D is for death because the line above that mentions a D. Cert.]

Sorry, Gina, we kinda zoomed right past your questions and observations. The answer to all of them seem to be yes.

 

[Gina_M]

i think they wanted a picture of mk so they could send it off with whoever took anna this is your real mom sorta thing was it a picture of her when she was old or when she was young?

That makes sense to me that they would try to pass off Anna as Margaret's daughter. Margaret was deceased, and they could say that they obtained custody of Anna upon Margaret's demise, but could no longer care for Anna themselves, so they put her up for adoption. They may have had to fake some documents to pull that off, but it doesn't seem too far fetched for the 2 Georges.

 

[Dr. Doogie]

That does make sense, but remember that we have looked at the possibility that Anna was given "back" to the Kukodas to be raised. In this scenario, they would have been innocent victims also since they would have honestly believed that Anna was Margaret's daughter. The fact that the family was told by someone (Brody? The mysterious "Russell"?) that Margaret had died in an auto accident when in fact she died from cancer may have been part of the ruse - if she were known to have been in a coma or otherwise incapacitated for her last few months of life, then she would not have been able to carry a child to term during this period.

BUT...there are no Kukoda women who fit the age of Anna that cannot be accounted for in available information on the internet. However, this "daughter of Margaret" scenario could also have played out with the eventual receipients of Anna not being a Kukoda. It could have been that the Margaret angle was a good cover story for a third party who needed an explaination of where this little girl came from.

 

[laini]

In the final solution it sounds like Waters is going to LEAVE brody somewhere with food, parephenalia, etc... (maybe at their apt or maybe at some other location), and then Waters is going somewhere without brody and is to TAKE the photo. (just thinking out loud- I'm sure you have all figured that out LOL). Wonder where he was going without Brody.

Was the entire planner thought to be written several years before Anna disappeared? Or part of it closer to her disappearance?

Sherlock and Annasmom - thanks for posting these pages.

 

[Annasmom]

In the final solution it sounds like Waters is going to LEAVE brody somewhere with food, parephenalia, etc... (maybe at their apt or maybe at some other location), and then Waters is going somewhere without brody and is to TAKE the photo. (just thinking out loud- I'm sure you have all figured that out LOL). Wonder where he was going without Brody.

Was the entire planner thought to be written several years before Anna disappeared? Or part of it closer to her disappearance?

Sherlock and Annasmom - thanks for posting these pages.

The Forum's feedback is really helpful. Obviously, this notebook was something George used a lot for all sorts of memos. Most of the dates in the book seem to be from 1970, so it would be two full years and a little more before Anna disappeared in January, 1973.

 

[laini]

The Forum's feedback is really helpful. Obviously, this notebook was something George used a lot for all sorts of memos. Most of the dates in the book seem to be from 1970, so it would be two full years and a little more before Anna disappeared in January, 1973.

Thanks!

Here's a weird thought - do you think they attempted to kidnap Anna when she was younger, or planned it but never went through with it in 1970-71? It certainly sounds like brody was trying to keep GW from backing out of something big.

 

[smile22]

well what if loyds of london was contacted by le? they would have to give out any info they would have. the two Georges are no longer alive. also if she was taken into italy wouldnt she have stood out among others? i am a quarter italian and we all have dark hair/features. where as anna has blondish hair unless they had her hair died to match the family's hair color.

 

[Gina_M]

well what if loyds of london was contacted by le? they would have to give out any info they would have. the two Georges are no longer alive. also if she was taken into italy wouldnt she have stood out among others? i am a quarter italian and we all have dark hair/features. where as anna has blondish hair unless they had her hair died to match the family's hair color.

My dad is 100% Italian and has blonde hair and blue eyes. Some regions of Italy have lighter-colored people. Somehow the stereotype has become the dark hair/dark eyes but we're not all like that!

 

[iNTERESTEDWOMAN]

In the final solution it sounds like Waters is going to LEAVE brody somewhere with food, parephenalia, etc... (maybe at their apt or maybe at some other location), and then Waters is going somewhere without brody and is to TAKE the photo. (just thinking out loud- I'm sure you have all figured that out LOL). Wonder where he was going without Brody.

Was the entire planner thought to be written several years before Anna disappeared? Or part of it closer to her disappearance?

Sherlock and Annasmom - thanks for posting these pages.

Here's a weird thought - do you think they attempted to kidnap Anna when she was younger, or planned it but never went through with it in 1970-71? It certainly sounds like brody was trying to keep GW from backing out of something big.

Laini, I think your thoughts are very reasonable theories of what might have went down. After reading over the Bible/Monologue page about 100 times, I think that might have been GW trying to talk himself into actually doing what Brody suggested.

After seeing the Picture of baby Anna on her fathers lap, I have had a strong feeling this was planned for years. Something like this just doesn't happen over night. It was a very well thought out plan that took years to orchestrate. If it would have been a spur of the moment kidnapping, Anna would have been found a few days or weeks after her abduction.

 

[Annasmom]

Laini, I think your thoughts are very reasonable theories of what might have went down. After reading over the Bible/Monologue page about 100 times, I think that might have been GW trying to talk himself into actually doing what Brody suggested.

After seeing the Picture of baby Anna on her fathers lap, I have had a strong feeling this was planned for years. Something like this just doesn't happen over night. It was a very well thought out plan that took years to orchestrate. If it would have been a spur of the moment kidnapping, Anna would have been found a few days or weeks after her abduction.

It may also be worth noting that for quite some time in 1971-72 we were on the road on our big bus trip, having our mail forwarded to my mother's, so they couldn't have acted on any abduction plan at that time, not knowing where we were.

 

[iNTERESTEDWOMAN]

It may also be worth noting that for quite some time in 1971-72 we were on the road on our big bus trip, having our mail forwarded to my mother's, so they couldn't have acted on any abduction plan at that time, not knowing where we were.

Did Waters have an itinerary of your trip? I know times have really changed over the last 35 years, so I don't know what kind arrangements you would have had to make to take Anna on such a long trip back then. Though within the last 10 years things have gotten pretty strict regarding travel. My sister can't take her daughters anywhere without their fathers permission, (joint custody) He really doesn't want anything to do with the girls, he just wants to make my sisters life miserable...:angel:

Anyway, the note of Waters that says take pic of M on vacation, I have thought maybe it ment to take a picture of you while you where on your vacation. Of course all of this is a moot point if Waters had absolutely no idea where you where going, when you where leaving or how long you would be gone.

 

[Annasmom]

Did Waters have an itinerary of your trip? I know times have really changed over the last 35 years, so I don't know what kind arrangements you would have had to make to take Anna on such a long trip. Though within the last 10 years things have gotten pretty strict regarding travel. My sister can't take her daughters anywhere without their fathers permission, (joint custody) He really doesn't want anything to do with the girls, he just wants to make my sisters life miserable...:angel:

Anyway, the note of Waters that says take pic of M on vacation, I have thought maybe it ment to take a picture of you while you where on your vacation. Of course all of this is a moot point if Waters had absolutely no idea where you where going, when you where leaving or how long you would be gone.

He had no connection with the family other than the monthly support checks, which while we were traveling were sent to my mother's address. Although he had insisted on joint custody, he had not visited his daughter since early 1968. The possible significance of the dates is that no abduction could have been planned when he didn't know where we were, but once we had an address within an hour or so of where he lived (November, 1971), the plan--if any--could have gone forward. I still am not saying that he did it, only that the dates might have been significant.

 

[iNTERESTEDWOMAN]

I find Sherlocks post #136 strange. On image squibb 26 (Tuesday 26) There is a mention of DAMRON. There is also the word passport next to it with other words I cannot make out. If you Google DAMRON there is a very popular travel guide listed. The company, (guide turned travel agency) was founded in 1964.
http://www.damron.com/about_us/our_history.html

If the above travel guide is what GW is referring to, this would explain many courious things, I suppose it also opens a new can of worms...Though it could be just another test Brody was pushing him into.

 

[dellemma]

I find Sherlocks post #136 strange. On image squibb 26 (Tuesday 26) There is a mention of DAMRON. There is also the word passport next to it with other words I cannot make out. If you Google DAMRON there is a very popular travel agency listed. It was founded in 1964.
http://www.damron.com/about_us/our_history.html

If the above travel agency is what GW is referring to, this would explain many things, it also opens a new can of worms...Though it could be another test Brody was pushing him into.

I had the exact same thought as I googled Damron and passport. I wasn't sure what to write here so I PM'd the info and links to Dr. Doogie this morning.

 

[Dr. Doogie]

There may be other DAMRON's, but the fact that it appears in reference to the passport office and near mentions of a vacation, I believe that it is the travel guide that this refers to. The shocking thing is that DAMRON is a travel guide catering specifically to the Gay/Lesbian travelers. It lists resorts that were "gay-friendly".

Needless to say, this discovery and its implications is going to take some time to mentally sort out. :waitasec:

 

[iNTERESTEDWOMAN]

I had the exact same thought as I googled Damron and passport. I wasn't sure what to write here so I PM'd the info and links to Dr. Doogie this morning.

I'm sorry, I should have done the same thing. :slap:

BUT, if this where the case, it would certainly explain much of their secretive behavior...and in many ways make them seem more normal. It was not exactly something you went out and shared with your co-workers and ex-wife in that era...ya know what I mean. In todays world, it's not a big deal at all.

 

[dellemma]

I'm sorry, I should have done the same thing. :slap:

BUT, if this where the case, it would certainly explain much of their secretive behavior...and in many ways make them seem more normal. It was not exactly something you went out and shared with your co-workers and ex-wife in that era...ya know what I mean. In todays world, it's not a big deal at all.

Actually InterestedWoman, I was very impressed with your post! I was sitting here last night debating on posting and couldn't come up with any way of writing that I was sure would come across tactful! When I saw your post my thought was....well there you have it!

 

[Gina_M]

I was wondering if maybe they were just "posing as a gay couple" in their travels. We know they shared a room at the hotel they lived at, so they would probably share one while traveling too. Maybe they thought that someone would be more willing to adopt Anna from a "couple" than from a single man. Not really sure, just throwing ideas out!

 

[SherlockJr]

The red outline was George's. I have not added anything. The only pages we didn't include in the posts were those of a letter GW was drafting to tell GB how much he admired him. Note that the reference to Bruckner isn't in the red box, and the words "to God" (not within the red box) seem to refer to Bruckner's dedication which you mentioned. I don't know if they had any sound equipment in the hotel room. The thought came to me that GW might have been planning the scene of his own demise, background music included. The music listed on that page seems to go from the somewhat sublime to the fairly ridiculous (Fannie Brice?), as if the two Georges had been discussing music.

Could this be a connection with Damron?

 

[Cubby]

I'm wondering if Damron has any connection to GW's draft status issues. Wasn't he at one time trying to convince the military, or have someone convince the military he was homosexual in order to get out of the draft?