The case for murder

[bourne]

I do not assume that Dina/Nina were ever aware of Jonah/Luber involvement. Actually quite the contrary. That's the point.

That's an interesting angle. Can you expound for us? Thanks

 

[minazoe]

i feel like all these people say they went to bed, went to sleep...how do you do that when a child in your family lay dying? Jonah...went to sleep, nina, dina, adam...

they all just went to sleep?

Adam indicated he was bedside, he indicated that he looked at *advertiser censored*...he was the last to see Becky alive and the first person on the scene.

he had an inconclusive polygraph and he is a nautical professional.

he may have felt entitled????

 

[Inparadise]

Respectfully snipped, and BBM.

I do agree that Dina is the smarter, more sophisticated, and more educated of the 2 twins-- listening to the 2 interviewed makes that apparent. Nina likes to talk and ramble on. When given enough time, and enough opportunity to talk uninterrupted, she reveals quite a lot in her extended stream of consciousness.

JMO, but I think Nina has lived in Dina's shadow for many years, and may not be entirely content with that. However, I think she is very loyal to her sister. And clearly, they both loved Max, and both hated Rebecca. (Nina's vicarious hatred in support of Dina's, imo.) If there were any nefarious action on Dina's part, Dina may be counting on familial manipulation, and Nina may be agreeable to going along with the plan. Nina may really enjoy the perks of being associated with the wealthy Shacknai lifestyle that Dina married into.

Conspiracies are very difficult to hold together over time.

Dina also does her share of rambling......when she was at the Coronado City Council meeting, both before and after her 4 minutes of "floor" time, she was rambling for more than an hour (before & after) for the local media. If there is a camera and a mic, those are her cues...........

 

[Mr Spock]

"Anne discussed the pieces of the crime scene that were not thoroughly (or in some cases, not at all) investigated or analyzed at the scene, including a pair of black gloves, a pair of women’s underwear found in the guest house’s garbage, blood in the shower, “mixed DNA” in Rebecca’s fingernail clippings, and footprints in the kitchen. She also states that the computer in the house was used after Rebecca’s death, though Dr. Phil dismisses this as misinformation. Bremner considers the original investigation to be rushed and judged too quickly, with Zahau’s case closed after a short seven-week investigation. She has deemed Rebecca’s death to be a “staged homicide,” due to the fact that the crime scene was “too clean”."


On television I saw a picture of the muddy prints in the kitchen and Anne Bremmer said they were thru out the house, they showed a photo.

or I dreamt it, in which case....:cheer: I've gone completely nutso...

No muddy footprints were ever shown on TV nor were they shown at the PR event when they announce the suicide accident rulings. They mentioned her feet were "dirty" and then tried to say it must have happened from the dust on the balcony or when she walked to the garage to get the rope to hang herself. However you walk on a little concrete and stucco path from the back of the house to the garage.

The carpet in the "hanging room" is white, and if her feet were that dirty there would be mud and dirt on the carpet. There are plenty of photos of the carpet in the "hanging room". The carpet was clean, in fact there appeared to be recent vacuum marks. Having lived in a house with white carpet and can say from experience that it shows every little thing. There should have been dirt or mud in the hanging room and throughout the house. The mud on Rebecca's feet should have been tested and analyzed as well to see where it possibly came from. My guess is the mud/dirt was from grass in the courtyard where she was heard screaming for help from.

For the record I do not think Jonah/Luber or Adam were involved.

 

[*Lash*]

In my opinion, Dina was suspicious of Rebecca. Possibly even asked Nina to question Rebecca during the car ride. It is fair to assume Nina told Dina everything about the weird car ride with Rebecca from the airport to the hospital. I speculate Dina wanted Nina to share every single detail. Nina eludes in her interview she was suspicious of Rebecca, even including what Nina thought was an uncomfortable 'weird bear hug'. Nina says she got a 'weird vibe' from Rebecca. Nina was also under the impression Rebecca had already been to the hospital. I believe Nina sees this as another 'weird' piece of information. The conversation continues with Nina questioning Rebecca about Maxie's accident and where he fell? Allegedly, Rebecca tells Nina he fell from the bedroom. Nina becomes curious how Rebecca could know that because no one saw Maxie fall. According to Nina, Rebecca was utterly quiet. In fact, Nina goes on to say she thought this was really strange. Nina was thinking if I was Rebecca and I was picking up a family member of a boy that I was watching I would give full disclosure of everything I knew/did. Nina finishes by saying she didn't understand why Rebecca was not telling her anything. Now imagine how Nina's car ride was relayed to Dina? Nina's suspicion transferred to Dina. Nina describing her car experience with Rebecca only fueled Dina's existing fire of suspicion.

Understandably, Dina wanted to know every detail of what happened to Maxie. Dina did not trust Jonah's second hand information. Dina was most likely extremely upset with Rebecca. Even Rebecca made a comment "Dina's going to kill me" to XZ. I suspect Jonah and Nina may have attempted to calm Dina's fury. In my opinion, nothing was going to stop Dina from getting her answers. Did Dina leave her phone behind so she could not be bothered by anyone? Did Dina decide she was going to question Rebecca? Maybe Nina and Jonah became worried when they could not reach Dina? Could Jonah have given Nina his car so she could go check on Dina? In my opinion, Nina went to the mansion because that is where she believed Dina had gone. She was concerned about her sister.

All my opinion and the rest can be left to imagination. What did Nina walk into? Did Nina wake Adam for help? Did the twins interrogate Rebecca and Adam finished up? Maybe Adam slept the whole night with his Ambien? Maybe one day we will know what really happened in Coronado?

 

[time]

Lash - interesting ideas about it all! You made me think.

 

[minazoe]

Wish we knew if Mr Tugboat has a record....or any x girlfriends that could talk a little about him.

I've known some really mean girls, and I still think we would know if a fight went down.

unless

Dina went in there with a solid plan to catch Becky unaware and knock her out.this would be pre-meditation. It tells me she went there to render Becky helpless and kill her.

she hates this girl and thinks she killed her son, but I don't know....the t shirt under the noose and in her mouth, bothers me....it's so professional, and why the tenderness, why the effort to provide padding under the rope? It's all very, very studied. Really bugs me.

 

[minazoe]

it's almost like she brought a hit man with her...who ever killed her ( if this was a murder) I feel they enjoyed it.

 

[Gilgamesh]

Wish we knew if Mr Tugboat has a record....or any x girlfriends that could talk a little about him.

I've known some really mean girls, and I still think we would know if a fight went down.

unless

Dina went in there with a solid plan to catch Becky unaware and knock her out.this would be pre-meditation. It tells me she went there to render Becky helpless and kill her.

she hates this girl and thinks she killed her son, but I don't know....the t shirt under the noose and in her mouth, bothers me....it's so professional, and why the tenderness, why the effort to provide padding under the rope? It's all very, very studied. Really bugs me.

I prefer to think of him as Mr. Tugtug. Sorry. Couldn't resist:floorlaugh:

 

[Gilgamesh]

Poor Adam. He will always be associated with *advertiser censored* and, well, you know, wa%^*#+^ing off. The legacy. The jokes in his future.....

 

[KarenM]

I think the men were involved, with the women.

If the men were out of it, no way the former DA now defendant attorney Mr Pfingst would show up so quickly at the crime scene. No way the police's initial homicide conclusion was so quickly reversed. No way all the subsequent hardship in investigation and incompetence from LE. No way AS would text JS about the death of RZ. And JS would at least have come back to the mansion for ten minutes after he learned of RZ's death.

The twins might be able to pull off the murder, but not the cover up. The strong obstacles RZ's family and their expert team encountered were fueled by tremendous amount of money, power and political connection/influence. DS and her twin sister simply do not have them.

 

[Gilgamesh]

I think the men were involved, with the women.

If the men were out of it, no way the former DA now defendant attorney Mr Pfingst would show up so quickly at the crime scene. No way the policy's initial homicide conclusion was so quickly reversed. No way all the subsequent hardship in investigation and incompetence from LE. No way AS would text JS about the death of RZ. And JS would at least came back to the mansion for ten minutes after he learned of RZ's death.

The twins might be able to pull off the murder, but not the cover up. The strong obstacles RZ's family and their expert team encountered were fueled by tremendous amount of money, power and political connection/influence. DS and her twin sister simply do not have them.

This is a very well thought out point. Kudos to you.. There are other ways of looking at it. ( just playing devil's advocate here. I'm not invested in either point of view) A possibility here is that Dina ( and whoever else) did all of this evil and was attacking Jonah by making a lot of trouble and bad publicity for him at the same time she murdered Rebecca. Jonah wanted it to go away. Shares in Medicis fell drastically right after this happened. There was speculation in msm of him getting ousted because of the bad press. Perhaps he wanted the mess to just go away. He could also be protecting his brother from rightfully or wrongfully being accused. Who knows?? Your last paragraph is absolutely right on, though. I completely agrees with you on it.

The twins might be able to pull off the murder, but not the cover up. The strong obstacles RZ's family and their expert team encountered were fueled by tremendous amount of money, power and political connection/influence. DS and her twin sister simply do not have them.[/QUOTE

 

[time]

I think the men were involved, with the women.

If the men were out of it, no way the former DA now defendant attorney Mr Pfingst would show up so quickly at the crime scene. No way the police's initial homicide conclusion was so quickly reversed. No way all the subsequent hardship in investigation and incompetence from LE. No way AS would text JS about the death of RZ. And JS would at least have come back to the mansion for ten minutes after he learned of RZ's death.

The twins might be able to pull off the murder, but not the cover up. The strong obstacles RZ's family and their expert team encountered were fueled by tremendous amount of money, power and political connection/influence. DS and her twin sister simply do not have them.

I believe that LE/DA often make decisions based on resource use and closing cases. There may have been strong motivation in this case that doesn't involve Jonah to call t his a suicide - pursing it as a homicide would take enormous resources AND there was a huge possibility they could never convict anyone for the crime. I still think it was a coin toss since LE/DA knew they could possibly get away with calling it a suicide.

So, you are talking about cover up in the sense of LE and media only, not at the murder scene by the perp(s)?

I do not think all four were involved in the murder. I do believe that Jonah may have tried some damage control in the media. This strikes me as typical big CEO behavior for the most part. I think that somewhat backfired with the PR people (Strick?) going too far. I also think that it is not unusual that someone acting for Jonah hired a lawyer to represent Adam. Whether Adam is guilty of anything, IDK.

 

[KarenM]

This is a very well thought out point. Kudos to you.. There are other ways of looking at it. ( just playing devil's advocate here. I'm not invested in either point of view) A possibility here is that Dina ( and whoever else) did all of this evil and was attacking Jonah by making a lot of trouble and bad publicity for him at the same time she murdered Rebecca. Jonah wanted it to go away. Shares in Medicis fell drastically right after this happened. There was speculation in msm of him getting ousted because of the bad press. Perhaps he wanted the mess to just go away. He could also be protecting his brother from rightfully or wrongfully being accused. Who knows?? Your last paragraph is absolutely right on, though. I completely agrees with you on it.

When AS texted JS about the death of his two year girlfriend RZ. He never bothered stopping by his mansion. This was very abnormal. I doubt he's thinking about his company's share price, the publicity or damage control at that time.

JS is a person who values his family very much. His CEO contract even specified he needed to have a significant amount of time off to be with his family. When the doctor at the hospital initially suspected Max's death was no accident and there was suffocation involved prior to the fall, how well could he sit with that? We all know DS's rage and her blame on RZ because she's very vocal about it. Sure DS is a smart person. But a smarter person would have kept quiet.

RZ's journal showed JS was never that into her, contrary to some media or JS's friend reported. That's why she even pondered whether it's the price she had to pay for leaving Ethan.

 

[KarenM]

So, you are talking about cover up in the sense of LE and media only, not at the murder scene by the perp(s)?

Yes.
The coverup at the murder scene was so bad that even a layman can see through. The coverup later on was done through much smarter media and political manipulation. Weren't for the latter, the case would have been blown open like a popcorn. And you and I won't be here talking about it before the holidays.

 

[bourne]

When AS texted JS about the death of his two year girlfriend RZ. He never bothered stopping by his mansion. This was very abnormal. I doubt he's thinking about his company's share price, the publicity or damage control at that time.

JS is a person who values his family very much. His CEO contract even specified he needed to have a significant amount of time off to be with his family. When the doctor at the hospital initially suspected Max's death was no accident and there was suffocation involved prior to the fall, how well could he sit with that? We all know DS's rage and her blame on RZ because she's very vocal about it. Sure DS is a smart person. But a smarter person would have kept quiet.

RZ's journal showed JS was never that into her, contrary to some media or JS's friend reported. That's why she even pondered whether it's the price she had to pay for leaving Ethan.

No, Becky's journal did NOT "showed JS was never that into her". All we have is one or two paragraphs in her journal speaking of one isolated incident. That doesn't mean JS was not into her or that she believed he wasn't into her. Don't exaggerate.

What we do know is that Becky did consider leaving JS, that she felt she was not being treated with the kind of respect she'd like and expect from a man. That is all we know. Not that "JS was NEVER that into her".

If JS thought Becky suffocated Max, he would have publicly joined Dina on Dina's continual vengeful PR campaign about Max's assault and homicide against Becky. The fact is, Js, did NOT. That speaks volume that he did not believe Dina's crazy, hateful, unsubstantiated talk in an effort to slander posthumously an innocent woman.

 

[Inparadise]

When AS texted JS about the death of his two year girlfriend RZ. He never bothered stopping by his mansion. This was very abnormal. I doubt he's thinking about his company's share price, the publicity or damage control at that time.

JS is a person who values his family very much. His CEO contract even specified he needed to have a significant amount of time off to be with his family. When the doctor at the hospital initially suspected Max's death was no accident and there was suffocation involved prior to the fall, how well could he sit with that? We all know DS's rage and her blame on RZ because she's very vocal about it. Sure DS is a smart person. But a smarter person would have kept quiet.

RZ's journal showed JS was never that into her, contrary to some media or JS's friend reported. That's why she even pondered whether it's the price she had to pay for leaving Ethan.

I think that you meant to say "leaving Neil".

 

[bourne]

This is a very well thought out point. Kudos to you.. There are other ways of looking at it. ( just playing devil's advocate here. I'm not invested in either point of view) A possibility here is that Dina ( and whoever else) did all of this evil and was attacking Jonah by making a lot of trouble and bad publicity for him at the same time she murdered Rebecca. Jonah wanted it to go away. Shares in Medicis fell drastically right after this happened. There was speculation in msm of him getting ousted because of the bad press. Perhaps he wanted the mess to just go away. He could also be protecting his brother from rightfully or wrongfully being accused. Who knows?? Your last paragraph is absolutely right on, though. I completely agrees with you on it.

The twins might be able to pull off the murder, but not the cover up. The strong obstacles RZ's family and their expert team encountered were fueled by tremendous amount of money, power and political connection/influence. DS and her twin sister simply do not have them.[/QUOTE

There appears to be two separate cover ups. One is the cover up of the murder at the crime scene. The second is the cover up done by LE.

The first cover-up, IMO, is either done by the twins or with Adam, though I tend towards Adam not being involved as he doesn't appear smart enough to not divulge the truth, no matter what remunerations he was given.

The second cover-up by LE was initiated by Dina likely having shown up on Wed morn at crime scene behind crime barricade tapes, setting the false story into motion that Becky killed her son and out of guilt killed herself. Adam's "she hung herself" certainly added to that scenario. Then Jonah stepping in with Pfingst as Adam's lawyer sealed the deal. Jonah wanted no bad PR and he paid Pfingst to close down the investigation ASAP. But I don't believe Jonah premeditated Becky's murder. IDK if he were involved with crime scene cover-up but he may have inadvertently set into motion LE's cover-up of Becky's homicide.

 

[time]

Yes.
The coverup at the murder scene was so bad that even a layman can see through. The coverup later on was done through much smarter media and political manipulation. Weren't for the latter, the case would have been blown open like a popcorn. And you and I won't be here talking about it before the holidays.

Thanks for your POV... however, I'm really not following exactly who you are saying did what here.

 

[time]

When AS texted JS about the death of his two year girlfriend RZ. He never bothered stopping by his mansion. This was very abnormal. I doubt he's thinking about his company's share price, the publicity or damage control at that time.

JS is a person who values his family very much. His CEO contract even specified he needed to have a significant amount of time off to be with his family. When the doctor at the hospital initially suspected Max's death was no accident and there was suffocation involved prior to the fall, how well could he sit with that? We all know DS's rage and her blame on RZ because she's very vocal about it. Sure DS is a smart person. But a smarter person would have kept quiet.

RZ's journal showed JS was never that into her, contrary to some media or JS's friend reported. That's why she even pondered whether it's the price she had to pay for leaving Ethan.

BBM - where did you get this info? And, what does the next sentence mean?