The Case of JonBenet Ramsey-CBS Sept. 18 # 2

[Heymom]

What happened? Did someone figure out she was probably Scarlett Scarpetta?

I have no idea, I just logged on this morning and saw her as "Former Member." Yay.

 

[Sunny1378]

Thanks for the welcome and apologies for the delay.

John has a history of affairs and patsy I don't know about.

We all know that Patsy wrote the RN and in my mind the only people they would cover for are themselves, close family member or another third person that either were involved with.

 

[PositiveLight]

I don't think they were at the party on the 23rd, or at the house the day of the "kidnapping." I think the question was people the Ramseys socialized with in Boulder. "Social acquaintances on a friendly basis" is how the questioner put it. See the top of that page for context.

Oh I know what you mean by that. But! I read somewhere here (Not positive on how correct it is) But Dr. Beuf was supposedly at the house that day medicating Patsy to help calm her down. I wonder if anyone has an official list somewhere of who was in and out of the house that day?

 

[ThinkHard]

She told a very unlikely story (as usual) in her police interview. It went like this -

She came down the stairs and bent over to read the ransom note. She read the word daughter. Her first thought was that it referred to Beth (John's daughter who had been killed in a car accident a few years prior). She said that she only realised the ransom note was current when she got to the part that said 'if you want your daughter to see 1997...'

What a load of baloney!

I know why she said that. Because she was anticipating being asked 'why did you immediately think the letter addressed to John referred to JonBenet?'

John has another daughter, Melinda. Yet she never thought it could be about her, so her explanation doesn't make sense.

She is a liar to the core. So is John.

And that is why I didn't credit parts of the CBS special that discounted the parents as the killers. They said patsy (and John) gave credible denials of having killed JonBenet. Well hang on, they denied everything, even owning the cereal bowl on their breakfast table and torch in their kitchen and most things besides! They denied writing the ransom note in equally strong terms. They are born and practiced liars. So that part made no sense to me - it seemed to be making the evidence fit their theory in that part.

Other things have made me doubt their conclusion also. Like BR was strong enough to wield the head blow. Well so were the parents. BR's prints are on the pineapple bowl and JonBenet ate some. Yes but that was likely well over 30 minutes before she was killed, judging by where it was in her digestive tract. So a lot wrong with their theory if you look at it objectively.

It might be that he was the killer but the show didn't really advance the case conclusively.

Watching Burke's interviews and seeing his adult self, is what sealed it for me.

I'm trying to figure out the specifics, but what I don't doubt is Burke killed his sister, and his parents covered.

Burke's behavior strikes me as pathological, and he would have had the most motive.

Mom guilt about feeling totally responsible for your son and his actions...I honestly cannot think of a stronger motivator for covering up a crime.

 

[PositiveLight]

As I am re-reading Chief Kolar's book, it struck me that John and Patsy could not say that they had called for JonBenet that morning (assuming they didn't know she was already dead, which they did), because doing so would have woken up Burke, meaning Burke would now be questioned by police as a possible witness to the "abduction." No, no noise because Burke stayed asleep the whole morning.

Excellent point!!

 

[ThinkHard]

I totally agree! Tricia is simply amazing as well as all of the wonderful posters here! Love this site!
I too have cried many times over this case. To me, JonBenet and the justice she should have had, was swept under the rug to keep an elite family from having a tarnished reputation. Their reputation was so much more important than justice for their daughter. That breaks my heart. To think that precious child laid on that cold floor for that long in the position she was in, as her own parents sat right above her. She didn't look peaceful. She looked strangled and her little arms were tied above her head stiff from rigor mortis. She had duct tape over her mouth. I don't know how John could say she looked peaceful. I was shocked when I read and saw that. So many people want justice for this little girl. Loved ones of hers and family friends. Even strangers such as us. Why isn't the immediate family also seeking justice?

If the house had been in turmoil and he had known BUrke had been aggressive to JBR and it had caused way more issues in the home they we will ever know.....perhaps his comment was a kin to "she finally at peace"

 

[PositiveLight]

BBM ~ Wouldn't their lawyers have informed them that BR would not be charged?

I'm sure they found that out after the fact. But by then it was too late. That night/early morning IMHO they were only trying to cover the crime and THOUGHT something could happen to Burke and plus their perfect reputation would be soiled. They are a vain family in my opinion. Always have and always will be. Although, I hate to lump his other two kids into that assumption considering I haven't done much research on them. I DO wonder very often how they feel about all of this.

 

[PositiveLight]

But I guess she was implying that the larger the house, the harder it might be to keep up with basic maintenance? I think it reflects more on the state of chaos/confusion in the household itself, not nec. the size of the house.

What happened? Did someone figure out she was probably Scarlett Scarpetta?

:silly:

 

[PositiveLight]

If the house had been in turmoil and he had known BUrke had been aggressive to JBR and it had caused way more issues in the home they we will ever know.....perhaps his comment was a kin to "she finally at peace"

It very well could be. I wonder to this day if he was ever treated. IMHO regardless of his guilt or innocence, that kid had some major problems. (IMHO BDI)
I can imagine though that they probably thought they could "deal with it".
Hell if my kid did that to my other child I'd deadbolt my bedroom door at night. :scared:

 

[PositiveLight]

Listening to that Peter Boyle interview and something confirmed for me at least how vain PR was. Priscilla White was helping PR get ready for the interview because she was so drugged up, and Priscilla had to talk her out of wearing a mink coat and her big diamonds.... What in the absolute HELL would make a "grieving mother" want to put all that crap on? I'd be without makeup, snot on my face, hair messy and still be in my pjs. Probably requiring heavy sedation too. Even with the meds PR was getting dolled up for her interview. :notgood:
(Fleet and Priscilla state THEY DID NOT tell the Ramsey's to go on tv. Just in case anyone is curious to that.)
Apparently when they went over the next day in Atlanta after the funeral to eat again with the family, they walked in to the chaos of them getting ready to go do the interview. Very interesting listening!

 

[cubbeegirl]

Listening to that Peter Boyle interview and something confirmed for me at least how vain PR was. Priscilla White was helping PR get ready for the interview because she was so drugged up, and Priscilla had to talk her out of wearing a mink coat and her big diamonds.... What in the absolute HELL would make a "grieving mother" want to put all that crap on? I'd be without makeup, snot on my face, hair messy and still be in my pjs. Probably requiring heavy sedation too. Even with the meds PR was getting dolled up for her interview. :notgood:
(Fleet and Priscilla state THEY DID NOT tell the Ramsey's to go on tv. Just in case anyone is curious to that.)
Apparently when they went over the next day in Atlanta after the funeral to eat again with the family, they walked in to the chaos of them getting ready to go do the interview. Very interesting listening!

Very interesting listening ....I'm wondering how in the world I have gone all this time and missed this gem?
The part about Patsy and her BIG diamond and her mink left not much to the imagination as to how Priscilla felt about that !

 

[MaryMac250]

You're assuming they had lawyers they could call in the early hours of 12/26? I'm assuming no such thing. Even if they did call a random, say, tax lawyer, (they would have had no reason to have contact with a criminal defense lawyer before that morning), there are other consequences when one of your children has killed another of your children, and it's obviously NOT an accident. Burke would have been removed from them, they would have been investigated, Burke could have been institutionalized for years. Their social standing was in jeopardy, as was John's business. The prior sexual abuse is one huge key to the outcome of this case. I believe that at least Patsy knew that JonBenet was being abused, and they were protecting (as they saw it) the family from certain implosion if that was brought out.

Wonder if they could call family friend and former DA employee, Mike Bynum in the early hours of the morning? From what I have read MB advised the family early on. Somehow, I am under the impression he also recommended the Ramsey law team.

 

[Brendon]

The boys were 10.

So Jonbenet was supervised when she was having her hymen damaged previously? She was supervised at night, all night, every night, like when she got killed? How do we know what Burke had in his mind? If he had a secret, he wouldn't tell us, because it wouldn't be a secret. (his quote.)

A mother who wakes up to a dead daughter likely killed by her son in the middle of the night would not logic it out like that. If Patsy's logic that night were firing on all cylinders, where she could differentiate between crime cases, she'd know a three page ransom note has never existed in the history of the universe, and that no ransom note has ever been left where the subject was left behind dead.

You are assuming a lot.

 

[Brendon]

You are pulling this stuff out of your posterior. WE DON'T KNOW if anyone called a lawyer before the police were called that morning because the records were deleted and never subpoena'd thanks to Alex Hunter. No, adults don't know "instinctively" that a child cannot be charged. People who have had no contact with law enforcement don't "instinctively" know anything, as was evident from the staged crime scene JR & PR created that morning.

Keep it polite, thanks.

We know that the Ramseys got lawyered up early. Within days. Stop putting things in my post. I never said they called the lawyer BEFORE the police were arrived. Normal people generally have an instinctive feel for culpability with age. I don't judge a small child's actions the same as a teen. And I don't judge a teen's actions the same as an adult. I don't know what took place between the Ramseys and their lawyers, I was speculating. Not like you haven't on here.

 

[ThinkHard]

Question....does anyone remember the name of the school Burke started attending the school year before the murder?

Patsy wrote of it in the 1995 Xmas letter.

Also what year did the Ramsey's move to CO?

 

[johnjay]

Oh No, even poor Jacques didn't get a happy ending, OMG!

PB: Jacques the dog, again, JonBenét's dog, but the dog was given to the people across the street. A lot of people have talked
about where was the dog that night. The dog had been given to the neighbors because the neighbors quote, liked the dog and so the
dog lived there. What can you tell us about the dog?


LW: Well, first of all, Patsy didn't want a dog. And, she didn't want JonBenét to have a dog. This particular dog didn't get the potty
training thing down very well, he tended to leave puddles. He was pretty much relegated to the wood floor at the bottom of the
spiral staircase and out the side door off the patio. However, they had, John told Patsy to get JonBenét a dog. It was John's
decision to get a dog and Patsy chose a Bichon. She got it from a pet store, and I came there one day, his name was Jacques, a
little guy, cute little furball. Well, one day the dog went to the vet and came back. But the dog that went to the vet was smaller than
the dog that left. I had said something to Patsy, the next week I walked in and I asked Patsy what happened to Jacques. She's like,
"What?" And I said, this isn't Jacques. And she's like, SHHHH, don't tell anyone, no one else knows. Turns out the first dog had
something wrong like some kind of liver disease or something and it was dying. It was a bad dog, so she called the pet store and
made a switch before anyone knew.

Hmmmmmm ??? ....

 

[PositiveLight]

Very interesting listening ....I'm wondering how in the world I have gone all this time and missed this gem?
The part about Patsy and her BIG diamond and her mink left not much to the imagination as to how Priscilla felt about that !

I know! I am like Right now I'm reading this in regards to this http://www.westword.com/news/jonben...got-derailed-and-why-it-still-matters-6053856

"By the end of the session, Ramsey was assuring the Whites that he and Patsy would return to Boulder. Far from being incensed, the Ramseys invited the couple to brunch at the Paughs' on New Year's Day. The Whites arrived and learned that John and Patsy were scheduled to appear on CNN later that day. Priscilla helped Patsy, who was still heavily medicated, get ready for her close-up, urging her to not to wear her diamond ring and mink coat. John Ramsey would later claim that it was Fleet White's idea for the parents to appear on national television and defend themselves; Fleet denies it, saying he was intent on getting the Ramseys to cooperate with the police. Priscilla remembers the two men sitting together on a couch that morning, talking earnestly and holding hands for several minutes before the Whites left for the airport."

 

[PositiveLight]

Oh No, even poor Jacques didn't get a happy ending, OMG!



Hmmmmmm ??? ....

Holy crap!

 

[TexMex]

Question....does anyone remember the name of the school Burke started attending the school year before the murder?

Patsy wrote of it in the 1995 Xmas letter.

Also what year did the Ramsey's move to CO?

Was it High Peaks Elementary?

 

[ElleElle]

I know a lot of you were not in open chat the two nights the show aired but we had a discussion about a pillow on kitchen counter. When the kitchen was shown (flashlight on counter) we saw a bed pillow on the counter. I have never read or heard anything about a pillow on the kitchen counter and wondered if any of you have. I was reminded about it when I watched a clip of the CBS show and Clemete addresses the pillow on the counter and it possibly being from JonBenet's bed. I'm off to look at crime scene photos but right now I don't recall seeing a pillow on JBR's bed.

Yes! I was in that chat! I saw the pillow on the counter but NOT on JBRs bed. I will hunt for the photos.

This makes me believe she went downstairs with her pillow.