The Case of JonBenet Ramsey-CBS Sept. 18

[just the facts pls]

Is it at all possible that LW might be doing this intentionally as the result of a guilty conscience?

I think he is as slimy as a defense attorney can get, and I realize that sabotaging the case might create some damage to his reputation, but what are his motives now? He's older, extremely wealthy (thanks in large part to this case), and I'm hearing that JR's wealth has dwindled to a shadow of what it was back then (thanks in large part to LW). Could LW have a heart after all and be trying to expose what really happened while still appearing to be on JR's side? That sort of acting and manipulation is not at all far from character. Just a thought!

Unfortunately I think LW is a "what you see is what you get" kind of person. Going on Dr Phil and boasting about threatening to sue the city of Boulder screams bullying and grandstanding to me. IMO

 

[Tortoise]

Let's see, "Oh, Jonbenet is staying with friends."

So where was she kidnapped from then, the friends' house? Is that what they would tell the police you mean?

 

[HarmonyE.]

Burke was already mentally unstable. Placing feces in the bed of his six year old little sister? That's serious. That should have been an immediate sign that Burke needed help. He 'accidentally' hit her hard enough to scar her.

Horrible enough to be murdered in your home at 6, but its also so sad to think about how difficult her short life was. Between her mother pushing her into the non-stop performing and her brother terrorizing her, a child who appeared to have it all in reality lived a nightmare. Poor baby.

 

[Lamima]

Oh I see what this theory is. I was confused. It could be that JR was planning to fly JBR, in suitcase, to Michigan after the police left. That's the theory?

 

[bodester413]

Hi guys!
I am pretty new to this case, having been aware of it for years, but never really digging too deep. I read the note years ago, did a small bit of reading, and that was it. My knowledge is limited.

There was something BR said during the Dr. Phil show that really bugged me, and to hear similar phrasing from JR on the CBS show last night stuck out like a sore thumb. I went back and found the bit from BR, and a couple more things jumped out... taken from Tadpole12's post # 78 on the Dr. Phil thread:

DP EP 3
@ 34
I think your dad had said he used
the flashlight that night to put you to bed
Then you snuck downstairs to play
BR: Ya I had some toy that I wanted to put together
I remember being downstairs after everybody
was kind of in bed and wanting to get this thing out
DP: Did you use the flashlight so you
wouldn't be seen?
BR: I don't remember -
I just remember
being downstairs, I remember this toy
**********************************************
DP: Did you hit your sister over
the head with a baseball bat or flash light?
BR: Absolutely not
DP: If someone in your house did,
do you think you
would have heard it?
BR: probably... ya (bites lip?)

The thing that bothered me initially was BR's distancing himself from the identity of the toy he snuck downstairs to assemble. 'Some toy', 'this thing', 'this toy'. I know that sounds a bit silly, as it has been so long, but for goodness sake, this was the night your sister was murdered, I'd think details would be etched into your mind forever. I would expect something like 'I got this new Lego set, and I couldn't wait to play with it'.

And then last night, JR says that he stayed up to help BR put together a plastic toy he had gotten for Christmas.

Again. A toy. Now a plastic toy, but still.

I found that very odd.

But THEN! Keeping JR's statement in mind.... how did it actually go? Did JR stay up to help him assemble, or did BR sneak down? With all the coaching they had to have had...why would BR say he snuck down now?

(I know it's likely he received more than one gift that required assembly)

What I am wondering is if a) there either was no toy requiring assembly, or it was the kind of toy that could have been used for nefarious purposes, has been disposed of, and thus has no identity, and b) if BR and JR are now trying to intentionally muddy already very murky waters.

That is odd when you think about it. Would make sense that if that toy was somehow part of what happened that night they would have thrown it out or hidden it. Like if the toy was broken as part of an argument or something. I can't remember if any of the crime scene photos showed that toy or if it disappeared. Like you said it seems like Burke would have a better description of it if it was that important that he had to have it together that night.

 

[just the facts pls]

Have any of you ever heard another lawyer talk this way? It's so unprofessional, as are his tweets.


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

No, and I agree his tweets are ridiculous. I am also dubious as to whether he can actually sue a city to move the investigation of a case. Granted, I am not from Colorado so I do not know what the laws are there. In my state, police departments out of county are out of jurisdiction, meaning that they can't get involved even if they wanted to. So what possible "third party" could investigate JBR's murder other than the FBI which from what I gather (if memory serves correctly) was already involved to a certain extent?

A professional lawyer would state the specific statutes giving him ground and reason to sue. His appearance on Dr Phil seems to be boasting and grandstanding about his ability to legally threaten others into getting what he wants. His tweets are just icing on the cake.

 

[MaryMac250]

So where was she kidnapped from then, the friends' house? Is that what they would tell the police you mean?

No. I was working from a different scenario, where they are leaving at 7 a.m. As scheduled, and just buying time with lying to the pilot to get out of town without too many questions...at that point. You know, for all the help police and investigators did not get from the neighbors, JR and remaining family could have left JB's body in the basement, gone to Atlanta for who knows how long, and the returned to get rid of the body.

 

[Katrina1978]

Or maybe PR is on the cord phone in the kitchen, JR has a cordless one running around the house, with his hand over the mouth piece grabbing the blankets she was wrapped in or plotting the next move(trying to find away to hide her) BR hears the commotion, gets up and says what did you find? and JR says were not talking you, by this time, PR has hung her end up, and says we called the police,now what do we do? However,even as I Just wrote that I thought, well wouldn't they have do all that BEFORE they called..Unless they did and JR says call our friends and wait!!

 

[HarmonyE.]

No. I was working from a different scenario, where they are leaving at 7 a.m. As scheduled, and just buying time with lying to the pilot to get out of town without too many questions...at that point. You know, for all the help police and investigators did not get from the neighbors, JR and remaining family could have left JB's body in the basement, gone to Atlanta for who knows how long, and the returned to get rid of the body.

I'm having trouble imagining the Ramseys on the Disney cruise with JB in the basement. I mean, Burke would probably have had fun, but I'm not sure Patsy could have pulled that one off.

Much easier to write a fake ransom note and lawyer up.

 

[asyousay]

Are the Ramsey's not broke now so how can they still afford the top lawyers ?

Or is it all relative and when people mention "broke" it just means not multi millionaires?!

 

[Tortoise]

I don't understand the purpose of a Grand Jury if the DA can overrule their decision.

I mean is it the equivalent of a jury here deciding its verdict and then the judge telling the jury it was wrong?

 

[MaryMac250]

I'm having trouble imagining the Ramseys on the Disney cruise with JB in the basement. I mean, Burke would probably have had fun, but I'm not sure Patsy could have pulled that one off.

Much easier to write a fake ransom note and lawyer up.

I agree with that. Trying to establish a sequencing of how plans came to be as they turned out is quite challenging here. Who knows if or how many times they changed?

 

[just the facts pls]

Are the Ramsey's not broke now so how can they still afford the top lawyers ?

Or is it all relative and when people mention "broke" it just means not multi millionaires?!

Let's say that they are broke or poor and do not have any money (I don't know, this is just hypothetical). LW would use his own discretion to predict whether a payout from litigation is higher than the cost he would have to pay spending time and energy on the case. He could conceivably sue and split the award with the Rs as long as it covers the legal fees he would have charged them to begin with. Or, he could be an altruist and do the case for free (pro bono). I guess it depends on his own motivation for threatening to sue. It could be personal, or it could be at the behest of the Rs.

 

[BBB167893]

I want to see those two hours.

I'm calling BS on Lin Wood's claim that he was the one who got those 2 hours cut. They all said they thought BDI on national TV! My own guess is that CBS thought the 6 hours was too much and I suspect the edited-out material will appear on a DVD or streaming provider.

They're trying to do that now, according to Jim Clemente.

 

[BBB167893]

Don't under estimate Lin Wood. When he says jump, people tend to listen to him, Alex Hunter and Mary Lacy to name a few. And ask the National Enquirer or any of the other tabloids he sued if they wished they'd heeded LWs warnings.

I wouldn't put anything past Lin Wood, andreww. But the analogy to Napoleon's invasion of Russia is an apt one. Wood hasn't got that kind of power anymore.

 

[BBB167893]

Is it at all possible that LW might be doing this intentionally as the result of a guilty conscience?

You have to HAVE a conscience for it to bother you.

I think he is as slimy as a defense attorney can get, and I realize that sabotaging the case might create some damage to his reputation, but what are his motives now? He's older, extremely wealthy (thanks in large part to this case), and I'm hearing that JR's wealth has dwindled to a shadow of what it was back then (thanks in large part to LW). Could LW have a heart after all and be trying to expose what really happened while still appearing to be on JR's side? That sort of acting and manipulation is not at all far from character. Just a thought!

No way. No way at all. He hates the idea of guilty people being punished.

 

[TeaTime]

What would have happened if they called 911 to request help for an injured child instead of faking a kidnapping?

Assume for a minute that BR did everything including strangling JBR and leaving her in the basement. The only differences would be that the Rs would not have lost all their money deflecting the crime to a mythical intruder and only a very few people would even know the story. The whole thing would be forgotten by the public in no time.

Foolish, selfish people.

 

[MaryMac250]

I don't understand the purpose of a Grand Jury if the DA can overrule their decision.

I mean is it the equivalent of a jury here deciding its verdict and then the judge telling the jury it was wrong?

I wondered about that too. And, also, about what the Grand Jury actually hears. I was under the impression they only hear what the DA/Prosecutor wants them to hear. Iircc, Alex Hunter said the Grand Jury had only heard from the police and he did not think he had enough evidence to proceed with the prosecution. Uh, what? Could he have not addressed that?

 

[asyousay]

What would have happened if they called 911 to request help for an injured child instead of faking a kidnapping?

Assume for a minute that BR did everything including strangling JBR and leaving her in the basement. The only differences would be that the Rs would not have lost all their money deflecting the crime to a mythical intruder and only a very few people would even know the story. The whole thing would be forgotten by the public in no time.

Foolish, selfish people.

Surely Burke would of been taken off them even if it was to go into some kind of facility to help him with his issues?

 

[MaryMac250]

What would have happened if they called 911 to request help for an injured child instead of faking a kidnapping?

Assume for a minute that BR did everything including strangling JBR and leaving her in the basement. The only differences would be that the Rs would not have lost all their money deflecting the crime to a mythical intruder and only a very few people would even know the story. The whole thing would be forgotten by the public in no time.

Foolish, selfish people.

Absolutely! But I think, they were, as you say, too selfish and also very self-absorbed. Additionally, Burke would have been under mental health care he so desperately needed (and needs).