The Case of JonBenet Ramsey-CBS Sept. 18

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Mooncult777 said:
I had an epiphany moment watching the CBS special last night. I previously thought Patsy did it, but seeing the video of Burke refusing to say what was in the bowl (the pineapple) completely blew me away. He was so sheepish, absolute "deer in the headlights" when asked about it. He visibly reacted in an unequivocally guilty manner and his feet started bouncing almost off of the chair. That's the only time he exhibited those behaviors. He seemed sheepish, embarrassed, and caught. I have read every book, article, etc. and that was a cincher for me. I think as the special suggests, that it started over the pineapple. At some point during the night both children were up and around and about the house. Jon Benet took pieces of the pineapple that Burke was eating at the table, and ran down to the basement with Burke chasing her with the flashlight. He hit her with the near fatal blow, and poked at her back with the train track piece trying to revive her. She was still unconscious. From there, it's murky, but he eventually woke both Parents up, and the staging with the garrote and paintbrush ensued. The paintbrush was essential to also cover prior sexual abuse most likely by Burke that Patsy at least was aware of. Many, many times Parents will cover up sexual abuse amongst siblings, especially prominent families with an image to lose. Patsy knew a full check examination including vaginal, and questions to Jon Benet outside of her presence would be immenent at the Emergency Room, should she regain conciousness. As to who finished the poor victim off with the garrote, I'm on the fence. Let's face it, both Patsy and John were almost intelligent enough to pull off the perfect crime. The ransom note was a huge mistake and panic induced. They had to cover for Burke, they knew the head injury was severe enough to crumble their perfect house of cards. And they were angry at Burke, this is why the 911 call has John saying, "we aren't speaking to you." And also why they sent him away the next day, also to get him away from investigators. But, he was their only child left, and they did what they had to do to preserve their lifestyle by any means necessary.
Click to expand...

From page 7/9, top partial paragraph of the JBR autopsy here: http://www.thesmokinggun.com/file/coroner-jonbenet-ramsey-autopsy?page=6

"...The proximal portion of the small intestine contains fragmented pieces of yellow to light green-tan apparent vegetable of fruit material which may represent fragments of pineapple. ..."

This material is not in the stomach and not in the duodenum, but in the proximal (first) part of the small intestine, and the extensive autopsy writing makes this clear. On the CBS show in one of the information boxes, it stated that food may be in the stomach about 5 hours. JBR had therefore ingested the pineapple at least 5 hours before death since the food had already moved along all the way to the small intestine. I think the theory that JBR grabbed pineapple from BR's bowl and then he hit her fails on this autopsy finding. JMO.
 
Sunshine4Me said:
Mooncult is referring to the video of a health professional interviewing him and showing him a picture of pineapple.
Click to expand...

That was his interview with someone from LE when he was 11 where he was shown the picture of the pineapple.
 
SandyQLS said:
From page 7/9, top partial paragraph of the JBR autopsy here: http://www.thesmokinggun.com/file/coroner-jonbenet-ramsey-autopsy?page=6

"...The proximal portion of the small intestine contains fragmented pieces of yellow to light green-tan apparent vegetable of fruit material which may represent fragments of pineapple. ..."

This material is not in the stomach and not in the duodenum, but in the proximal (first) part of the small intestine, and the extensive autopsy writing makes this clear. On the CBS show in one of the information boxes, it stated that food may be in the stomach about 5 hours. JBR had therefore ingested the pineapple at least 5 hours before death since the food had already moved along all the way to the small intestine. I think the theory that JBR grabbed pineapple from BR's bowl and then he hit her fails on this autopsy finding. JMO.
Click to expand...

I think that is more likely to be a full meal that would take all that time to clear the stomach. A piece or two of pineapple would move along much faster, and I've read that pineapple contains some enzyme that means it digests more quickly than other foods. My guess is she ate it about 1 hour before she was killed.
 
margarita25 said:
Animal hairs? I don't remember seeing that mentioned on any of the recent shows...are there any references about that here? Tia.
Click to expand...

I recall there was mention of an animal hair in JonBenet's hand. A badger hair was mentioned. My first thought was that it could have been a bristle from a paintbrush. But then yesterday when I was thinking about the cord around JonBenet's neck being like the one around the doll's neck, and maybe placed around JB's neck to simulate the doll's appearance, a few more things clicked into place for me.

These dolls have a cord around the neck to attach the head. When you remove the cord the head comes off and then you have access to the inside of the doll for repairs, like replacing cords that keep the limbs on tight. To do this you have to remove wadding material from the stuffed body. Guess what was found on the basement floor? Wadding material. And Patsy said she could not identify it from her craft supplies, hadn't seen it before. This doll was not found in evidence, and could have been cleared up and removed from the house. Also I think tan fibres such as the doll's cloth body are comprised of, were found on JonBenet's clothes.

I'm thinking this doll was dismantled at the time of JonBenet's death, for sure. Sometimes I think animal hairs can be occasionally found in materials such as wadding.

Something else that I've just remembered they didn't deal with in the special was the unusual bruise/mark on JonBenet's face. They covered the two marks on her back but not the one on her face, which seemed much larger to me from the photos. I do wonder if there was a component of the inner workings of the doll that could have made this mark if she was struck with it.
 
This is the interview section about the cotton wadding -

[FONT=&quot] 3 TRIP DEMUTH: Okay. 400 we've looked at[/FONT]
[FONT=&quot] 4 before, a different angle.[/FONT]
[FONT=&quot] 5 PATSY RAMSEY: Right. That is down in the[/FONT]
[FONT=&quot] 6 basement. It is like cotton or something.[/FONT]
[FONT=&quot] 7 TRIP DEMUTH: Do you know what that is?[/FONT]
[FONT=&quot] 8 PATSY RAMSEY: I don't know why cotton would[/FONT]
[FONT=&quot] 9 be there.[/FONT]
[FONT=&quot]10 TRIP DEMUTH: You don't recognize it?[/FONT]
[FONT=&quot]11 PATSY RAMSEY: No.[/FONT]
[FONT=&quot]12 TRIP DEMUTH: It doesn't mean anything to[/FONT]
[FONT=&quot]13 you?[/FONT]
[FONT=&quot]14 PATSY RAMSEY: No.[/FONT]
[FONT=&quot]15 TRIP DEMUTH: Okay. Tom.[/FONT]
[FONT=&quot]16 TOM HANEY: Do you ever remember seeing it in[/FONT]
[FONT=&quot]17 there?[/FONT]
[FONT=&quot]18 PATSY RAMSEY: No.[/FONT]
[FONT=&quot]19 TOM HANEY: Could it have come off of[/FONT]
[FONT=&quot]20 something?[/FONT]
[FONT=&quot]21 PATSY RAMSEY: It could have come off -- well[/FONT]
[FONT=&quot]22 the Christmas tree is in there, but I don't know if[/FONT]
[FONT=&quot]23 they had cotton on them.[/FONT]
[FONT=&quot]24 TOM HANEY: Did you use any kind of cotton[/FONT]
[FONT=&quot]25 batting like, or it appears to be a fairly big piece,[/FONT]
[FONT=&quot]0466[/FONT]
[FONT=&quot] 1 not a real small piece like an Aspirin bottle.[/FONT]
[FONT=&quot] 2 PATSY RAMSEY: Yeah. I don't know. I can't[/FONT]
[FONT=&quot] 3 think of.[/FONT]
[FONT=&quot] 4 TOM HANEY: Anywhere, any decorating or[/FONT]
[FONT=&quot] 5 crafts or --[/FONT]
[FONT=&quot] 6 PATSY RAMSEY: I can't think of any.[/FONT]
[FONT=&quot] 7 TRIP DEMUTH: Did you have any Santa suits?[/FONT]
[FONT=&quot] 8 PATSY RAMSEY: I had Santas. I did have a[/FONT]
[FONT=&quot] 9 Santa suit. I stuffed the Santa sometimes.[/FONT]
[FONT=&quot]10 TRIP DEMUTH: Okay. Where was that?[/FONT]
[FONT=&quot]11 PATSY RAMSEY: That should have been back in[/FONT]
[FONT=&quot]12 the Christmas room back, you know, in the shower back[/FONT]
[FONT=&quot]13 in there.[/FONT]
[FONT=&quot]14 TRIP DEMUTH: If you walked past the laundry[/FONT]
[FONT=&quot]15 room, the shower to the storage room is at the end of[/FONT]
[FONT=&quot]16 that hallway, the room it would be in.[/FONT]
[FONT=&quot]17 PATSY RAMSEY: Right there would be kind of a[/FONT]
[FONT=&quot]18 beard, but I don't know it was made out of cotton. It[/FONT]
[FONT=&quot]19 was kind of more like synthetic.[/FONT]
[FONT=&quot]20 TRIP DEMUTH: That was -- the Santa suit was[/FONT]
[FONT=&quot]21 never in the window sill.[/FONT]
[FONT=&quot]22 PATSY RAMSEY: Not to my knowledge.

http://www.acandyrose.com/1998BPD-Patsy-Interview-Complete.htm[/FONT]
 
Patsy talking about Burke's fruit preferences -

[FONT=&quot]21 TOM HANEY: How about Burke?[/FONT]
[FONT=&quot]22 PATSY RAMSEY: No. He has a sweet tooth. He[/FONT]
[FONT=&quot]23 doesn't like fruit too much. He likes pineapple a[/FONT]
[FONT=&quot]24 little bit, strawberries a little bit, but he would not[/FONT]
[FONT=&quot]25 pour himself a big bowl of pineapple.[/FONT]
[FONT=&quot]0478[/FONT]
[FONT=&quot] 1 TOM HANEY: If he got up in the middle of the[/FONT]
[FONT=&quot] 2 night would he eat something like that?[/FONT]
[FONT=&quot] 3 PATSY RAMSEY: No. He would eat something[/FONT]
[FONT=&quot] 4 chocolate.


http://www.acandyrose.com/1998BPD-Patsy-Interview-Complete.htm[/FONT]
 
Was there or was there not a doll found near JB's body? If a doll was there, had the head been removed? If the head had been removed and was lying separate from the doll's body, then stuffing from inside the doll could have been pulled out, true. If a doll was there, was it the My Twinn that was supposed to look like JB (but she didn't like it)?

But the reason I wonder about a doll with a head removed, is because of the remark in the RN that if the Ramseys did such-and-such, JB would be "beheaded".

So, then my mind goes to this thought: possibly the garotte was a symbolic "beheading" of JB, or possibly BR (if BDI) was attempting with the garotte cord to "remove" JB's head so she would be like the doll. Something along those lines, in a sick mind ....
 
Advocate4 said:
Was there or was there not a doll found near JB's body? If a doll was there, had the head been removed? If the head had been removed and was lying separate from the doll's body, then stuffing from inside the doll could have been pulled out, true. If a doll was there, was it the My Twinn that was supposed to look like JB (but she didn't like it)?

But the reason I wonder about a doll with a head removed, is because of the remark in the RN that if the Ramseys did such-and-such, JB would be "beheaded".

So, then my mind goes to this thought: possibly the garotte was a symbolic "beheading" of JB, or possibly BR (if BDI) was attempting with the garotte cord to "remove" JB's head so she would be like the doll. Something along those lines, in a sick mind ....
Click to expand...

You know a couple of times I have thought about that mention of beheading in the ransom note. I know it sounds unimaginable but I had actually wondered if they at some point had planned on not only removing her body from the house later that day, but also removing her head, so that it would look like a terrorist kind of act and to hide the injuries she sustained. And that was why it was put in the letter as a warning.
 
keyleigh said:
Interesting take on the show. Totally opposite to what I think.

http://www.rollingstone.com/culture...e&tse_id=INF_1337c6b07f8111e6bf8e470556fe0b22
Click to expand...
Thanks for the link.

I actually agree with the article. It seems objective. Their (Clemente, et al) assumptions aren't infallible. But especially this quote regarding BR: "To unleash a witch hunt on him now without rock solid proof of guilt is a cruel ratings ploy."

I wish instead that they could have convinced the BPD/DA to do some of the forensic testing they suggested.

And speculating that JBR grabbed a piece of BR's pineapple resulting in a rage attack seemed pretty silly to me. (Now had she grabbed his brand new Nintendo while he was in the middle of a game, maybe...but it would still be total speculation.)
 
Mrs G Norris said:
Calling their bluff!! They know the Ramsey's won't risk a trial with depositions and all those judges and juries and media and facts and what not ...
Click to expand...

For what it is worth, I heard JR say on a tv show about a yr. ago, that he only has modest financial means now, since legal costs took so much of his money. This Collins lawyer must be costing him a fortune though. He did say on DP recently that this would be his last interview. He looked very tired, old, and haggard. Perhaps now he will just have to let things take their course, even if his son's reputation is ruined. BR will not go to jail for causing the death of his sister, but I wonder if he and his father could be charged with obstruction of justice for the coverup which has taken place over twenty years ? IMO
 
TODAY just teased that the Ramsey family is fighting back after the CBS special accusing Burke. After this commercial.
 
Why am I not surprised with Garnett's reaction..pffff

http://www.news.com.au/lifestyle/re...e/news-story/d58137e2e1e15ec44e4d7778b53d1d00

He said that despite demands from viewers of a recent slew of television specials to “reopen the case” (it is in fact still open), his hands are tied — for now.

Mr Garrett explained on Facebook last night: “The Statute of Limitations ran on those charges long before I was sworn into office in January 2009, thus barring completely the possibility of filing them.

“As I have always said, I will file charges if there is admissible evidence available to support a charge for which the Statute of Limitations has not run against an identifiable person. There is no such evidence, currently, regardless of whatever theory is postulated on TV and hence no charges can be filed.”
 
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