The Charges - Why Not First Degree?

[Luvrosco]

Does anyone know why they weren't charged with 1st degree murder?

 

[KateB]

Does anyone know why they weren't charged with 1st degree murder?

That may be forth-coming. Florida appears to be different than other states in that regard.
This article is available to subscribers only, but this pertinant part is in the media thread.

Why not first-degree murder for suspects in Dr. Teresa Sievers case
Posted Sep 1
http://www.naplesnews.com/news/crim...-murder-for-suspects-in-sievers-case_71863055
"In Florida, the only way a first-degree murder charge can be brought forth is through a grand jury’s indictment.

Each of the five counties in Southwest Florida’s 20th Judicial Circuit has its own grand jury, made up of 21 people, said Samantha Syoen, a spokeswoman for the State Attorney’s Office. A new grand jury is chosen every six months.

Syoen declined to comment specifically on the Sievers case, beyond saying that the State Attorney’s Office has not yet received the case in its entirety to review for potential charges. Both suspects, Curtis “Wayne” Wright and Jimmy Rodgers, are named on warrants for second-degree murder, but at this point no charges have actually been filed, Syoen said.

It takes 12 or more of the 21 grand jurors to reach an indictment"

 

[KateB]

More on the process of first-degree murder charges from the subscription only article: http://www.naplesnews.com/news/crim...-murder-for-suspects-in-sievers-case_71863055

Speaking in general terms about the process, Syoen said that in Florida, the state attorney is the only person who can convene a grand jury for a potential charge of first-degree murder. Once convened, the state presents its evidence to the grand jurors, who can hear testimony and ask any questions they might have.
...
In recent cases in Southwest Florida, grand jury indictments on first-degree murder charges happened weeks or months after a person’s arrest on lesser charges.

In Florida, there doesn’t have to be evidence of premeditation for a killing to be considered first-degree murder. A defendant can also be indicted on that charge if he or she was participating, or attempting to participate, in certain felony offenses, such as burglary, sexual battery or home-invasion robbery. That means a person can be charged with first-degree murder if someone was killed during another crime, even if the defendant didn’t mean for it to happen.

 

[No it's not]

More on the process of first-degree murder charges from the subscription only article: http://www.naplesnews.com/news/crim...-murder-for-suspects-in-sievers-case_71863055

Speaking in general terms about the process, Syoen said that in Florida, the state attorney is the only person who can convene a grand jury for a potential charge of first-degree murder. Once convened, the state presents its evidence to the grand jurors, who can hear testimony and ask any questions they might have.
...
In recent cases in Southwest Florida, grand jury indictments on first-degree murder charges happened weeks or months after a person’s arrest on lesser charges.

In Florida, there doesn’t have to be evidence of premeditation for a killing to be considered first-degree murder. A defendant can also be indicted on that charge if he or she was participating, or attempting to participate, in certain felony offenses, such as burglary, sexual battery or home-invasion robbery. That means a person can be charged with first-degree murder if someone was killed during another crime, even if the defendant didn’t mean for it to happen.

Thank you for the info. That is exactly, what kept bugging me from day one. I could not explain the broken in side door in a staged scenario. If you remember I kept saying the broken-in side door was a mistake if it was staged. As pointed out in KateB's post, a person getting killed during a felony leads to a felony murder charge here in Florida!

So JR and CWW either knew the alarm would be disarmed and they could indeed just break in through that side door or they did not expect that. Conveniently the alarm was off and the door was not dead bolted. They could have just used a credit card, if the had one..(*joke*).

If they did not have any knowledge, that the alarm would be off, at what point did they find out? Standing in front of the cameras? Triggering the motion detector light, but not an alarm? How would one approach the house not knowing, if the alarm was on or off?

By breaking- in through the side door, it makes it look random. BUT, it also "looks like" they DID NOT INTENT TO HURT OR KILL ANYONE INSIDE THE HOUSE. However, that does not work here in Florida! Burglary is a felony. THAT'S THE MISTAKE. You don't have to prove premeditation! Somebody did not tell them..

They did not plan to get caught. They could have gotten in much easier through that side door. They created a smoke screen, which is coming after them.

-Nin

 

[No it's not]

More on the process of first-degree murder charges from the subscription only article: http://www.naplesnews.com/news/crim...-murder-for-suspects-in-sievers-case_71863055

Speaking in general terms about the process, Syoen said that in Florida, the state attorney is the only person who can convene a grand jury for a potential charge of first-degree murder. Once convened, the state presents its evidence to the grand jurors, who can hear testimony and ask any questions they might have.
...
In recent cases in Southwest Florida, grand jury indictments on first-degree murder charges happened weeks or months after a person’s arrest on lesser charges.

In Florida, there doesn’t have to be evidence of premeditation for a killing to be considered first-degree murder. A defendant can also be indicted on that charge if he or she was participating, or attempting to participate, in certain felony offenses, such as burglary, sexual battery or home-invasion robbery. That means a person can be charged with first-degree murder if someone was killed during another crime, even if the defendant didn’t mean for it to happen.

Also in regards to the FLORIDA STATUTES 782.04 Murder, it clearly states that (in my own words) a person, who is participating in the felony of, e.g. burglary, and that when another person gets killed during such burglary, that the individual, who did not personally engage in the killing, will still be charged of second degree murder!
In other words, if we have JR and CWW, they break into the S house, Dr S gets killed and it is not KNOWN (yet) WHO killed her, both will get charged with second degree murder! It can get up to first degree, if they can prove, who did what.

http://www.leg.state.fl.us/statutes...tute&URL=0700-0799/0782/Sections/0782.04.html

I am trying to explain it in my own words. If I made an error, I stand corrected.

-Nin

 

[creepingskills]

Also in regards to the FLORIDA STATUTES 782.04 Murder, it clearly states that (in my own words) a person, who is participating in the felony of, e.g. burglary, and that when another person gets killed during such burglary, that the individual, who did not personally engage in the killing, will still be charged of second degree murder!
In other words, if we have JR and CWW, they break into the S house, Dr S gets killed and it is not KNOWN (yet) WHO killed her, both will get charged with second degree murder! It can get up to first degree, if they can prove, who did what.

http://www.leg.state.fl.us/statutes...tute&URL=0700-0799/0782/Sections/0782.04.html

I am trying to explain it in my own words. If I made an error, I stand corrected.

-Nin

Well said. The second degree murder charge can be upgraded or downgraded. IMO, they're waiting for one to roll on the others.

 

[NSS]

first degree versus second degree murder may be a case of extradition.

If another State or Country is being asked to extradite someone, the request can be refused if the death penalty is on the table so maybe that is the reason for the lower charge????

I think it's just a case of who dealt the blow that killed her though. This is how so many parents fail to get charged for killing their children, instead there are charges of neglect. A sad fact.

 

[creepingskills]

first degree versus second degree murder may be a case of extradition.

If another State or Country is being asked to extradite someone, the request can be refused if the death penalty is on the table so maybe that is the reason for the lower charge????

I think it's just a case of who dealt the blow that killed her though. This is how so many parents fail to get charged for killing their children, instead there are charges of neglect. A sad fact.

While another country can refuse to extradite someone because the death penalty is on the table, a state cannot refuse to extradite on these grounds.

Article IV, Section 1 of the United States Constitution, known as the "Full Faith and Credit Clause", addresses the duties that states within the United States have to respect the "public acts, records, and judicial proceedings of every other state."

 

[creepingskills]

First Degree
Committed purposely; premeditated

Second Degree
Committed knowingly or recklessly, perp acts with a substantial and unjustifiable risk to life.


What Is Second-Degree Murder?
According to the Florida Supreme Court, second-degree murder requires that the defendant was acting with a depraved mind, and did not have any regard for human life at the time of the incident. This is often the case in murders that did not have specific planning, or when the state cannot prove that the accused premeditated the offense.
http://kevinaraudtesq.com/understanding-second-degree-murder-in-florida/

 

[Bobbywoo]

First Degree
Committed purposely; premeditated

Second Degree
Committed knowingly or recklessly, perp acts with a substantial and unjustifiable risk to life.


What Is Second-Degree Murder?
According to the Florida Supreme Court, second-degree murder requires that the defendant was acting with a depraved mind, and did not have any regard for human life at the time of the incident. This is often the case in murders that did not have specific planning, or when the state cannot prove that the accused premeditated the offense.
http://kevinaraudtesq.com/understanding-second-degree-murder-in-florida/

Does anyone know how many years a 2nd degree can get you in Florida?

 

[Scout]

When all involved are arrested and indicted, I expect there will be first degree murder charges all around as well as conspiracy and solicitation charges. One or two might avoid the death penalty by turning state's evidence.

 

[creepingskills]

Does anyone know how many years a 2nd degree can get you in Florida?

Life in prison.

 

[Skinner]

My personal thoughts about this topic, regardless of this case, but still especially applies in this case:


Personally, America is one screwed up country with regard to punishment fitting the crime. In particular, I think nobody is afraid or concerned with the "death penalty" because they know that it takes at least 20 years to get implemented. Idiots all over who do not even know the murderer and victims of the crime will protest and attempt to stop death sentences, endless appeals, and any of a number of other silly things that happen in the USA.

So why would a criminal, if convicted, turn state's evidence? Getting the sentence reduced to Life, is almost the same thing as Death to be carried out in a couple of decades. Nobody fears the death sentence.

We know people are short-sighted and cannot see past tomorrow. So death sentence carried out in 20 or 25 years, is like forever away.

Now, if in our country the death sentence got performed a week after verdict, police would have a much different scenario when leaning on people in jail to confess and turn over evidence, etc.

JMO

 

[Eileen730]

Well said. The second degree murder charge can be upgraded or downgraded. IMO, they're waiting for one to roll on the others.

what if there are no others?
what are they waiting for?

waiting to get them in florida! IMO

 

[Eileen730]

My personal thoughts about this topic, regardless of this case, but still especially applies in this case:


Personally, America is one screwed up country with regard to punishment fitting the crime. In particular, I think nobody is afraid or concerned with the "death penalty" because they know that it takes at least 20 years to get implemented. Idiots all over who do not even know the murderer and victims of the crime will protest and attempt to stop death sentences, endless appeals, and any of a number of other silly things that happen in the USA.

So why would a criminal, if convicted, turn state's evidence? Getting the sentence reduced to Life, is almost the same thing as Death to be carried out in a couple of decades. Nobody fears the death sentence.

We know people are short-sighted and cannot see past tomorrow. So death sentence carried out in 20 or 25 years, is like forever away.

Now, if in our country the death sentence got performed a week after verdict, police would have a much different scenario when leaning on people in jail to confess and turn over evidence, etc.

JMO

Like the old west they took them out back the court house and shot them!
Next!

 

[human]

They are waiting for the grand jury. Right?

 

[Deleted member 159541]

My personal thoughts about this topic, regardless of this case, but still especially applies in this case:


Personally, America is one screwed up country with regard to punishment fitting the crime. In particular, I think nobody is afraid or concerned with the "death penalty" because they know that it takes at least 20 years to get implemented. Idiots all over who do not even know the murderer and victims of the crime will protest and attempt to stop death sentences, endless appeals, and any of a number of other silly things that happen in the USA.

So why would a criminal, if convicted, turn state's evidence? Getting the sentence reduced to Life, is almost the same thing as Death to be carried out in a couple of decades. Nobody fears the death sentence.

We know people are short-sighted and cannot see past tomorrow. So death sentence carried out in 20 or 25 years, is like forever away.

Now, if in our country the death sentence got performed a week after verdict, police would have a much different scenario when leaning on people in jail to confess and turn over evidence, etc.

JMO

In Florida, the average length of time on death row is just under 15 years. Hopefully CWW will know some of these death row details for Florida and decide he would rather make a deal and turnover the mastermind rather than die via Old Sparky or a lethal dose before the age of 65

http://www.nbcmiami.com/news/A-Look-at-Floridas-Death-Row-245208951.html

 

[creepingskills]

My personal thoughts about this topic, regardless of this case, but still especially applies in this case:


Personally, America is one screwed up country with regard to punishment fitting the crime. In particular, I think nobody is afraid or concerned with the "death penalty" because they know that it takes at least 20 years to get implemented. Idiots all over who do not even know the murderer and victims of the crime will protest and attempt to stop death sentences, endless appeals, and any of a number of other silly things that happen in the USA.

So why would a criminal, if convicted, turn state's evidence? Getting the sentence reduced to Life, is almost the same thing as Death to be carried out in a couple of decades. Nobody fears the death sentence.

We know people are short-sighted and cannot see past tomorrow. So death sentence carried out in 20 or 25 years, is like forever away.

Now, if in our country the death sentence got performed a week after verdict, police would have a much different scenario when leaning on people in jail to confess and turn over evidence, etc.

JMO

BBM if we imposed the death penalty a week after verdict, there is no time for appeals. No time to ensure the defendant received a fair trial. Of all punishments imposed by US courts, the death penalty should be appealable because its death. Leveraging the death penalty to elicit information, IMO, is a little extreme. I'm sure that as a defendant in a murder case, you feel like your facing death either way, so if you had any information to give up you're going to do it before the death penalty is on the table. MOO.

 

[KateB]

http://www.sheriffleefl.org/main/index.php?r=crimeActivity/inmateDetail&id=353519833196548
And a trial date:

 

[east2west]

http://www.sheriffleefl.org/main/index.php?r=crimeActivity/inmateDetail&id=353519833196548
And a trial date:

what do the two letters "WO" stand for under the CHARGES column? typically its translates as "without" but I am not sure in this instance.
tia