The Church?

[twinkiesmom]

I understand, to each his/her own.

Show me the evidence, not your rage. You have nothing against any of the family or the church except Melissa.

I don't see Anthony-like behavior here...They seem to be genuinely dumbfounded at the level of depravity accused of MH and are not making excuses for her.

If they had turned her out in the street after her thefts, they would have been accused of being un-Christian.

They seem no different than most other parents of wayward adult children or grandchildren. She hid her true self from them. How many times have we heard from friends, relatives, and neighbors of accused killers "but he was such a nice guy?"

I see no evidence that she wasn't raised to be a devout Christian...not everyone chooses to follow the belief system of their parents.

I see the Easter church service as taking a stand against evil rather than dishonoring Sandra's memory.

MH took advantage of people in her life rather than take responsibility for her life....She took advantage of girls who were loosely supervised. She took advantage of the church which was also unsupervised....If this were a functioning church, there would be meetings happening daily, people working from morning to night, and this crime would not have occurred there.

 

[JoeFromLB]

I see the Easter church service as taking a stand against evil rather than dishonoring Sandra's memory.

MH took advantage of people in her life rather than take responsibility for her life....She took advantage of girls who were loosely supervised. She took advantage of the church which was also unsupervised....If this were a functioning church, there would be meetings happening daily, people working from morning to night, and this crime would not have occurred there.

This may have been the first service held there in several years, if some of the news reports about the church are accurate.

I personally am inclined to believe there was no Sunday School class at all...no enrollment, no students. Where are the parents of the children supposedly enrolled there? No one has come forward to talk about the Sunday School. Nobody's come forward to identify themselves as a member of the church, except the Pastor and his wife, and of course MH, the "Sunday School teacher".

You're right, if this were a functioning church, there would be people working there, ministries, events, weekly Bible study, regular Sunday services, etc.
From all the reports I've read (and I've done quite a bit of reading here), there is an information vacuum about this church. A big blank spot.
The people at the Jehovah's Witness congregation nearby say they've seen no activity there whatsoever, according to a Tracy Press article.

Looking through their website, it appears they haven't updated it since 2002.
The current home page has nothing but a Bible verse on it. No other links.

Very odd...

 

[MCDRAW]

This may have been the first service held there in several years, if some of the news reports about the church are accurate.

I personally am inclined to believe there was no Sunday School class at all...no enrollment, no students. Where are the parents of the children supposedly enrolled there? No one has come forward to talk about the Sunday School. Nobody's come forward to identify themselves as a member of the church, except the Pastor and his wife, and of course MH, the "Sunday School teacher".

You're right, if this were a functioning church, there would be people working there, ministries, events, weekly Bible study, regular Sunday services, etc.
From all the reports I've read (and I've done quite a bit of reading here), there is an information vacuum about this church. A big blank spot.
The people at the Jehovah's Witness congregation nearby say they've seen no activity there whatsoever, according to a Tracy Press article.

Looking through their website, it appears they haven't updated it since 2002.
The current home page has nothing but a Bible verse on it. No other links.

Very odd...

I read somewhere on the MH thread, I can't remeber exactly where, but they were talking about MH's Dad's church and that MH had helped in her daughter's class a few times. I wonder if that is not where the "Sunday School Teacher" title came from. Just wondering because you would think people would come out and talk about her being their child's teacher.

 

[simlyme]

My comments regarding your response in ( )

Show me the evidence, not your rage. You have nothing against any of the family or the church except Melissa.

(The evidence is in the hands of the court now,Rage,no, outraged?yes?. they act like nothing ever happened to anyone. MH lived with them long enough for them to see what she was really like.)

I don't see Anthony-like behavior here...They seem to be genuinely dumbfounded at the level of depravity accused of MH and are not making excuses for her.

( Her Gr.Father may not have made any, but they have definetly stuck to her side so far, is an excellent good mother one that steals,gets arrested ETC,what about her history prior to Sandras murder? Good Christian Sunday school MOTHER?

If they had turned her out in the street after her thefts, they would have been accused of being un-Christian.

(No, NO, called un-christian by whom? Her fellow church members? How about some genuine decipline?MH sounds and looks like someone that had to have it her way most of her life and was given to,by all means I dont blame her totally with where it landed her,she was raised by 2 parents,and then taken in by her Gr parents, you re telling me that they should close their eyes and ears to all of MH's wrong doing? Theyre doing that now.)

They seem no different than most other parents of wayward adult children or grandchildren. She hid her true self from them. How many times have we heard from friends, relatives, and neighbors of accused killers "but he was such a nice guy?"

( I dont know where you live,but you almost make it sound like murder is a common thing, MH has been brewing for some time, can a parent or Gr parent be so much in denial about a "child" like her,I dont think so ,unless that "child" has been away for a while without any contact,MH has been with her GR parents now for at least 8 months,in the same house.)

I see no evidence that she wasn't raised to be a devout Christian...not everyone chooses to follow the belief system of their parents.

( Well maybe your right on the first part,but,wouldnt a "Christian" especially one that saw Sandra every day and was best friends with your daughter or your grand daughter have gone out to search for Sandra and shown a true sadness and heartbreak in learning what really happened to Sandra?)

I see the Easter church service as taking a stand against evil rather than dishonoring Sandra's memory.

( I see it as a way of showing disrespect and false religion.)

MH took advantage of people in her life rather than take responsibility for her life....She took advantage of girls who were loosely supervised. She took advantage of the church which was also unsupervised....If this were a functioning church, there would be meetings happening daily, people working from morning to night, and this crime would not have occurred there.

( WOW! girls who were loosely supervised? unsupervised church? I dont get that? Please explain further)

 

[ChristineD]

Wow, Simlyme - you gave me a creepy thought - if the cult, er, religion is so anti-Catholic, and Sandra was or was thought to be Catholic (and Catholic equals non-Christian idol worshipper, according to them) ... well maybe that's why they have [seem to have?] such low-grade reactions. If a little girl was likely killed at your own small church site by your own daughter, do you think you might just be devastated instead of holding service there and socializing on that very spot? I still can't get over how audacious that seems.

 

[passionflower]

Wow, Simlyme - you gave me a creepy thought - if the cult, er, religion is so anti-Catholic, and Sandra was or was thought to be Catholic (and Catholic equals non-Christian idol worshipper, according to them) ... well maybe that's why they have [seem to have?] such low-grade reactions. If a little girl was likely killed at your own small church site by your own daughter, do you think you might just be devastated instead of holding service there and socializing on that very spot? I still can't get over how audacious that seems.

OMG! some religious freaks do think like that!

 

[MCDRAW]

I understand, to each his/her own. But, I still feel this "church" is not a church per se.
If we want to think,loving,caring,respect,nurturing,ETC. about a church,and its members, do we see that in Clover Road missionary Baptist church?

This article and a few others say:
http://cbs13.com/local/sandra.cantu.slaying.2.983211.html

(On Sunday, outside the church after Easter services, Huckaby's relatives described her as a loving mother with a strong religious upbringing.)

Strong religious upbringing? HUH?

Are the Huckabys and Lawless strong religious people? Their demeanor is disgraceful, did they ever help search for Sandra? Best friend of MH daughter and best friend of Lawless grand-daughter. They're all ruthless in my book.

Wouldnt a "church" so close to the home of this missing child put effort into the search.
Im disgusted!:curses:

Lawless religion is all relevant in this case:furious:
Oh, I know the devil made her do it?

PREACH TO THE CHOIR, Milissa Lawless Huckaby:behindbar

Maybe the FBI asked them not to search. They have been known to do that before.

 

[MCDRAW]

I totally agree with you, and yet, it's amazing how many so-called religious people do some really terrible things.

Your right. I guess I'm thinking that as a Christian I couldn't do the things MH did and still consider myself a christian.

 

[snapdragon]

I was afraid to enter this discussion for this reason.

Catholics do not worship Saints and idols. They worship God,(Jesus Christ ) as far as Saints, they pray to Saints, a Catholic is a Christian.
Religion is way too contraversial for me to get into. I believe that will be a big reason for that not being brought up in the trial,but, I still believe it has a lot to do with what MH:furious: did to that precious Angel.

off topic:
Simlyme, you are correct! My bad.. being raised a catholic since birth, I guess I felt like we were worshiping saints! My poor choice of words. Yes, Catholics DO worship God. It is the intercessory prayer that the protestants have issue with. My neighbor who is a Baptist has tried to argue this point to me, because being a Catholic, I also consider myself a Christian.

 

[simlyme]

This just came back to me:waitasec: On one of the Lane Lawless interviews, he says something to the effect " We hope that we can worship or carry on with our service without interference/ respect and privacy from the media/community"

Anyone know where that interview can be found?

Something like that, any way, WHAT ABOUT THE CANTU FAMILY???
Just think , what kind of Easter they had,what kind of day they'll have for the rest of their lives.

These people(Lawless-Huckaby) are selfish,self serving and ruthless!

 

[snapdragon]

This just came back to me:waitasec: On one of the Lane Lawless interviews, he says something to the effect " We hope that we can worship or carry on with our service without interference/ respect and privacy from the media/community"

Anyone know where that interview can be found?

Something like that, any way, WHAT ABOUT THE CANTU FAMILY???
Just think , what kind of Easter they had,what kind of day they'll have for the rest of their lives.

These people(Lawless-Huckaby) are selfish,self serving and ruthless!

I heard this in an interview too... but I don't think it was Lane Lawless, I think it was the uncle, Brent? I think was his name. He did make that statement, I did hear it. I cannot find it at present. It was in a television interview.

I agree totally. I cannot believe they decided to have Easter services at the murder site. Especially since the place had hardly been used for services before. Seems like a "family" meeting of sorts.

I feel so sorry for the Chavez/Cantu families. I agree... their Easter must have just been torture. MH is just plain evil and her family seems to be covering for her. I hope she gets the DP.

 

[passionflower]

IMO MH wasn't following a very religious life.
She conceived her baby out of wedlock......married, divorced.
Went bankrupt, couldn't hold a job.
How did she get money? Just welfare or 'other' as in stealing?
Set 2 fires, threatening letters?
Drugged atleast 2 little girls.
Molested and murdered Sandra Cantu..................
nothing a Christian religion would do......IMO
yet taught Sunday school? devious, evil and no true faith.........IMO

 

[passionflower]

I heard this in an interview too... but I don't think it was Lane Lawless, I think it was the uncle, Brent? I think was his name. He did make that statement, I did hear it. I cannot find it at present. It was in a television interview.

I agree totally. I cannot believe they decided to have Easter services at the murder site. Especially since the place had hardly been used for services before. Seems like a "family" meeting of sorts.

I feel so sorry for the Chavez/Cantu families. I agree... their Easter must have just been torture. MH is just plain evil and her family seems to be covering for her. I hope she gets the DP.

bolded by me,
I so agree!
Who was at the Easter service?
Was it private, members only?
Was it to get stories correct, make sure certain 'things' were hidden? (pics etc)
No way do I believe this is a place of worship!
I wish LE had the church 'bugged'!

 

[txsvicki]

Missionary Baptist isn't a cult. They don't have any basic beliefs that are any different from the Southern Baptists which are one of the largest denominations around. Missionary B. just don't believe in joining associations or conventions. Having Easter services at the church didn't seem right to me though. I'm not sure I believe that they never have any services though. The Jehovah's Witnesses don't even meet on the same days as Baptists so I don't see how they would necessarily know for sure.

 

[simlyme]

I heard this in an interview too... but I don't think it was Lane Lawless, I think it was the uncle, Brent? I think was his name. He did make that statement, I did hear it. I cannot find it at present. It was in a television interview.

I agree totally. I cannot believe they decided to have Easter services at the murder site. Especially since the place had hardly been used for services before. Seems like a "family" meeting of sorts.

I feel so sorry for the Chavez/Cantu families. I agree... their Easter must have just been torture. MH is just plain evil and her family seems to be covering for her. I hope she gets the DP.

I think youre right, it might have been the uncle, still, pretty nervey!
and I agree about 'SUPPOSEDLY" having an Easter service, I dont believe it.It would have been a good idea to bug the place, Im sure lots of talking went on,maybe some cleaning up too.

 

[simlyme]

Missionary Baptist isn't a cult. They don't have any basic beliefs that are any different from the Southern Baptists which are one of the largest denominations around. Missionary B. just don't believe in joining associations or conventions. Having Easter services at the church didn't seem right to me though. I'm not sure I believe that they never have any services though. The Jehovah's Witnesses don't even meet on the same days as Baptists so I don't see how they would necessarily know for sure.

Right, Missionary Baptist is a denomination, the sign to that building says Missionary Baptist, do we really know much about the people that congregate in the building?
Weve not been priveledged to know how many Sunday school children MH taught, the church site is as old as the hills, ETC
Im not by any means talking about Missionary Baptists,(the denomination) Im refering to the building and the "worshipors" that are involved with the place.

 

[oceanblueeyes]

Right, Missionary Baptist is a denomination, the sign to that building says Missionary Baptist, do we really know much about the people that congregate in the building?
Weve not been privileged to know how many Sunday school children MH taught, the church site is as old as the hills, ETC
Im not by any means talking about Missionary Baptists,(the denomination) Im referring to the building and the "worshipors" that are involved with the place.

I am sure if she was even a Sunday school teacher she volunteered like all Sunday school teachers do. I think MH mimics what she thinks will make her appear "normal' and living with a Pastor who was her own grandfather it only seems logical that she would volunteer in her grandfather's church.

From what I have read Melissa Huckaby hasn't lived there that long, maybe 7 or 8 months before the murder of Sandra. We don't even know if she taught children. She could have been a Sunday school teacher for any age group. In fact among her many comments she said her luggage had scrap-booking material in it and many elderly people are really into that. So who really knows.

I don't think there is anything sinister about this church or their congregants expect MH, herself. There has been nothing negative that has come out about the church itself or others who may attend.

I think simply it was limited now due to the ever changing area and as other moved away to other parts of the city and it was easier for them to find a new church elsewhere. I do think that of those who have remained are probably ones that have been members of that church for decades and just did not want to leave.

It was a small community church. And if there were strange going ons there then the media would have long picked up on it. I actually feel sorry for this church. With Pastor Lawless getting way up in his 70s he probably had semi retired but the members still wanted him to be their Pastor. I think the media information is incorrect, which it is known to happen, and there were services still held at the church.

imo

 

[MCDRAW]

This just came back to me:waitasec: On one of the Lane Lawless interviews, he says something to the effect " We hope that we can worship or carry on with our service without interference/ respect and privacy from the media/community"

Anyone know where that interview can be found?

Something like that, any way, WHAT ABOUT THE CANTU FAMILY???
Just think , what kind of Easter they had,what kind of day they'll have for the rest of their lives.

These people(Lawless-Huckaby) are selfish,self serving and ruthless!

My cousin was killed in a car accident several years ago. It was quick and we were shocked and devestated. I'm fairly certain that the Chavez/Cantu family is in that horrible place of shock, devestation, pain, and are grieving, I doubt that they are worried about what the Lawless family is doing. JMO

 

[twinkiesmom]

( Her Gr.Father may not have made any, but they have definetly stuck to her side so far, is an excellent good mother one that steals,gets arrested ETC,what about her history prior to Sandras murder? Good Christian Sunday school MOTHER?)

I don't see them lying, making excuses, etc. They claimed the person who did the crimes wasn't the Melissa they knew but did not deny it could have been her...Huge difference.



They seem no different than most other parents of wayward adult children or grandchildren. She hid her true self from them. How many times have we heard from friends, relatives, and neighbors of accused killers "but he was such a nice guy?"

( I dont know where you live,but you almost make it sound like murder is a common thing, )

It has nothing to do with where I live...We read about murder every day on Websleuths...perhaps you need to hang around a while to get the lay of the land?

I see no evidence that she wasn't raised to be a devout Christian...not everyone chooses to follow the belief system of their parents.

( Well maybe your right on the first part,but,wouldnt a "Christian" especially one that saw Sandra every day and was best friends with your daughter or your grand daughter have gone out to search for Sandra and shown a true sadness and heartbreak in learning what really happened to Sandra?)

I don't recall one word in anything I've written that defends Melissa, nor have I said anywhere that I believe her to be a Christian. I believe her upbringing would have given her the opportunity to be a Christian if she had chosen that way. It appears she has not.

I see the Easter church service as taking a stand against evil rather than dishonoring Sandra's memory.

( I see it as a way of showing disrespect and false religion.)

There you go again, convicting the family with no evidence.

MH took advantage of people in her life rather than take responsibility for her life....She took advantage of girls who were loosely supervised. She took advantage of the church which was also unsupervised....If this were a functioning church, there would be meetings happening daily, people working from morning to night, and this crime would not have occurred there.

( WOW! girls who were loosely supervised? unsupervised church? I dont get that? Please explain further) )

When I say loosely supervised, I mean there was no adult keeping track of her whereabouts at all times. I think it's a fair assessment of the situation. And the church was likewise not supervised....If they didn't have office employees, volunteers, meetings on a daily basis, the church was basically vacant most of the time.

 

[Winnow]

Snippet:
Are the Huckabys and Lawless strong religious people? Their demeanor is disgraceful, did they ever help search for Sandra? Best friend of MH daughter and best friend of Lawless grand-daughter. They're all ruthless in my book.

Before anyone assumes that every Lawless family member is as messed up as Melissa, I think that they should take a look at the following videos.

The following Lawless videos are NOT where they were in the car (that we are so familiar with...)

1. Raw Video: Pastor's Wife Talks About Sandra (4/10/09) - segments that are not included in the video #2.
http://www.ksbw.com/video/19151715/index.html


2. Tracy Pastor, Wife Speak About Sandra Cantu (4/10/09)
In Salinas, the Tracy pastor and his wife talk to KSBW about their relationship with slain 8-year-old Sandra Cantu.
A professionally edited video as shown on TV:
http://www.ksbw.com/video/19153334/index.html


I know that I posted these over on the "Connie Lawless" thread, but I just looked at them again (searching for an answer to a question asked here) and I, for one, do not see deception in Connie's responses (video #1)