The Crown v Gerard Baden-Clay, 10th July - Trial Day 18

[kiwijayne]

Kiwijayne

I agree, GBC does not have my sympathy.

Narcissists seriously do not expect to mess up their image.

GBC did (in ways he can't compute - he's all about him).

GBC lives, uses and extinguishes/kills (those that fade or ruin the image he aims to project)

I want him incarcerated forever.

I can't see how him having visitation with their three girls can improve their long lives.

jmo

I just found your post odd lol

 

[Solaris]

Sorry if I'm repeating what has already been said, but I haven't had a chance to read the rest of the thread.

I note that one of the jurors has been admonished by the judge for downloading information from the internet on the role of a jury in a criminal trial.

http://www.brisbanetimes.com.au/que...rs-deliberations-continue-20140710-zt35q.html

A few years ago I was the foreman of a jury. They chose me because no-one else wanted to do it and I have previous experience facilitating groups so they thought I would be able to keep them on task (which I was able to do for the most part). Not sure what they do now, but at that time the court did not give me any information about how to structure the process of contemplating the evidence to ensure that it is well-considered and everyone had a chance to air their views. I was given no information about how to resolve differences of opinion about the evidence which can be really tricky to negotiate.

Nearly the first thing that juries do is to take a poll to see how people are thinking before any deliberations. What I was lucky enough to know before I was given the role of foreman, was that this is a very unhelpful strategy early in the process as it commits people to their position and can make it difficult for them to see the evidence in other ways (even when the poll is anonymous). Because of what I knew, I avoided taking a poll until we had all had a chance to discuss our different views about the evidence.

I wonder whether the juror in this trial who did the internet search was seeking some information on process, because it is not easy to talk about multiple pieces of evidence and manage 12 people's ideas about it, let alone come to some sort of consensus re verdict.

The trial I was involved in was not a murder trial, but I found the experience a great responsibility and very draining (especially having to stand up in court and state our verdict). The stakes were not as high as in this situation and I can imagine the jury in this trial wants to make sure that they do the best job they can in considering the evidence and reaching a verdict. Just my two cents...

 

[LauraT]

Sitting here in my trackies watching The Footy Show while hubby has ducked off to bed with a sore throat....All feeling a bit too raw tonight as we hold our collective breaths and hold our virtual hands behind the Dickies and those three beautiful girls tonight. Allison will be remembered forever while the person that took her from the world will be locked away and forgotten in a cold, dark cell.

IMOO.


Sent from my iPad using Tapatalk

So you're all set for your morning walk then.... Sure he's really sick...:thinking:

 

[Susan12]

Bumping this up for anyone who may have missed it....

Hey thanks heaps for creating the poll! Awesome. Very interesting.

 

[they'll get you]

and the Insurance money.

The children. Possibly never to be seen again by the Dickies.

TMCH would take him back in a heartbeat and be all gooey that he's back 'unconditionally'.
She'd buy that people-mover vehicle for the tribe and be happy to change her clan to a hyphenated name.
Heirs pfffft.

 

[Susan12]

Sorry if I'm repeating what has already been said, but I haven't had a chance to read the rest of the thread.

I note that one of the jurors has been admonished by the judge for downloading information from the internet on the role of a jury in a criminal trial.

http://www.brisbanetimes.com.au/que...rs-deliberations-continue-20140710-zt35q.html

A few years ago I was the foreman of a jury. They chose me because no-one else wanted to do it and I have previous experience facilitating groups so they thought I would be able to keep them on task (which I was able to do for the most part). Not sure what they do now, but at that time the court did not give me any information about how to structure the process of contemplating the evidence to ensure that it is well-considered and everyone had a chance to air their views. I was given no information about how to resolve differences of opinion about the evidence which can be really tricky to negotiate.

Nearly the first thing that juries do is to take a poll to see how people are thinking before any deliberations. What I was lucky enough to know before I was given the role of foreman, was that this is a very unhelpful strategy early in the process as it commits people to their position and can make it difficult for them to see the evidence in other ways (even when the poll is anonymous). Because of what I knew, I avoided taking a poll until we had all had a chance to discuss our different views about the evidence.

I wonder whether the juror in this trial who did the internet search was seeking some information on process, because it is not easy to talk about multiple pieces of evidence and manage 12 people's ideas about it, let alone come to some sort of consensus re verdict.

The trial I was involved in was not a murder trial, but I found the experience a great responsibility and very draining (especially having to stand up in court and state our verdict). The stakes were not as high as in this situation and I can imagine the jury in this trial wants to make sure that they do the best job they can in considering the evidence and reaching a verdict. Just my two cents...

You sound very smart to have not done the poll straight away. I guess if one was done better to do it anonymously for the same reason you mentioned of people not wanting to seem to have changed their minds.

I wonder if they are still deliberating because

1) they're still trying to agree whether he did it or not
2) they agree he did it but can't agree whether it's murder or manslaughter
3) they've decided just trying to make it look like they spent more time thinking about it to have it treated as well considered

 

[UnfoldingTruth]

Last night I was in bed around midnight trying to sleep and mulling a few things over in my mind on all of this.

Just as I was dropping off to sleep I received a "message".

It was in the form of a very loud clanging metal door....

Are you inside too?

:laughcry: Good one!

 

[tarjessi]

What a nice start to the thread to see Mr TF right up there on the first page. I hope he makes regular appearances throughhout the day. :heartbeat::heartluv::heartbeat:

On the subject of donuts, there used to be a saying, "a dollar to a donut." Seeing as they're now at least $2.50 anywhere and everywhere, I guess that saying is now defunct.

I know of a place that sells 3 donuts for $3 hot and fresh...sorry to veer off topic for a minute. I do hope the jury make the right decision.

Sent from my SM-N9005 using Tapatalk

 

[Susan12]

Did Gerard feel sad about what happened to Allison because he never wanted that to happen? You be the judge (an oldie but a goodie).

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=c76CI6vtixI

 

[they'll get you]

Does anyone know who actually stated that the person who approached the jury member was wearing purple ?
If it was the judge he wasn't very subtle was he ? Lol

I think it was one of our sleuthers who heard whilst in court.

 

[Ooohm]

Eyes of Clay, Feet of Clay...

 

[Susan12]

Did Gerard feel sad about what happened to Allison because he never wanted that to happen? You be the judge (an oldie but a goodie).

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=c76CI6vtixI

Had to reply to my own post after watching it again. I feel seriously sick. He knew she wasn't coming home. He knew she was dead. He did it. He didn't feel that bad about it at the time either from the looks of it or he could have used that emotion to seem more upset. I will be devastated if the jury let him go. Did they ever get to see this footage?

Early on I thought a third party may have been involved but if the police found no calls between them (?) how did the third party know to come assist? Was it more premeditated then I might have thought or did one drive to the other? Still trying to work out what the police wondered about the unusual thing at the kenmore roundabout. Can't have just been his car driving through as that's not unusual. Wasn't there some rumour about a person sitting at the bus stop? Although that's not unusual too. What was unusual?

 

[UnfoldingTruth]

But jurors would have seen that video if they watch the nightly news. This is the thing that confuses me about juries, their selection and the whole media ban thing. Allison was killed over 2 years ago - these jurors have been exposed to the same media as the rest of us for at least two years. They may have been part of facebook discussion pages, and sites like this one for all we know. Unless during selection are they asked specifically if they have been - what do you think? If not, and you (general you here at WS) had been called for duty on this specific jury, would you have raised your hand and told the court that you weren't a suitable jury candidate for this case?

In this case the jurors were asked if they had ever expressed an opinion as to the guilt or not of the defendent (GBC) as part of the selection. If they had answered yes, they were dismissed(not selected) I believe. My comment on that was, they'd be hard pressed to find someone in Brisbane who hasn't at some point expressed an opinion on it, even if it was only within the four walls of their own home.

 

[TootsieFootsie]

Whenever I hear the name Clay I think of the Waltons TV series or rather the original Spencers Mountain.
In the original Spencer's Mountain movie the eldest son was Clay-Boy, later changed to John-Boy for the tv series.
Olivia Walton was the mothers name in the tv series.

 

[itsthevibe]

I cannot see any logical way for manslaughter. Either you think he killed her or you don't. If you think he killed her you believe she caused the scratches to his face which means it wasn't a sudden accidental death and at minimum he was intending to cause grievous bodily harm which lead to her death = intent = murder.

Totally agree. I hope the jury get it right One thing I worry about is that they find him not guilty because they didn't fully understand the application if the law on certain aspects of the case and their decisions. As it's been said it's a big responsibility and the law is not simple to understand, and the jury haven't had very long to absorb and go over evidence.

 

[Chief of Funtime]

I've been thinking about this too . It could have been arranged in person earlier in the evening for someone to come over later and sit with the kids while we go out and vent .... Or even in one of the calls earlier in the day . As Fuller suggested , that venting session took place on the 19 th not the 18 th .

 

[itsthevibe]

I haven't had time to keep up with all posts, but if a verdict comes in tomorrow, or whenever, are those of us in Brisbane going to meet up and celebrate justice for Allison. Not to trivialise the crime but to have a drink in honour of Allison and justice. I realise some may prefer to remain anonymous..

 

[they'll get you]

I think being suffocated where you're struggling for breath and the attacker knows they're robbing you of breath but keeps going would count as that level of harm. It'd be attempted murder if she'd lived, since she died it's murder. Those scratches on his face and body are not small or light, they are from someone seriously desperate. He would know from feeling that from her how panicked, fearful and hurt she was feeling and she was alive then - and he persisted. I feel for Allison, her girls and her family, she did not deserve this.

Scenario.
As Allison suffered asthma I thought if he'd held the pillow over her face and went into the other room then later realised what he'd done and it was too late.

If she'd died that way, was it the asthma or him and the pillow??

Scenario.
A person who is threatened, runs for their life, runs out in front of a car and gets killed.
I believe the killer is the person who first was threatening their life to make him run. Not the driver of the car.

 

[Moggill2]

There is something very off here. Jury members were approached, not once but twice during the trial and now this! I think the jury member who downloaded that material should be excused from the trial and one of the reserves brought in to replace him/her.

I am so <Makarasnip> angry right now!

Didn't they need to ask additional questions with one of the jury members during the jury selection process? (just before they confirmed the jury had been selected).

 

[ThaiBali]

The children. Possibly never to be seen again by the Dickies.

TMCH would take him back in a heartbeat and be all gooey that he's back 'unconditionally'.
She'd buy that people-mover vehicle for the tribe and be happy to change her clan to a hyphenated name.
Heirs pfffft.

The girls are not in her plans for the future.."it would be best if you had the girls at the your house and you move in with me every second week" no one has to know. If HE is released she'll be his first stop.

has Pastor Walton been in court lately.