The Crown v Gerard Baden-Clay, 10th July - Trial Day 18

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Night all. Hope it's good news tomorrow. Thanks again to everyone who does the tweeting etc. It is awsome :)
 
Awake & thinking over the events of the last few days. The court letter OW received, could it have been in regards to approaching a jury member? The Judge said he would investigate, how would that proceed? Official requests for interview? Or is it a police matter?
 
itsthevibe said:
If a verdict comes in on Friday I may or may not be able to rush away from work and come in for it. If anyone wishes to meet after that for a drink, <modsnip> Sorry marly if this breaks the rules, something I am not prone to do, but in this instance I couldnt think of any other way to do this.

I can only hope our drinks will be of celebration not comiseration.
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Itsthevibe
If you do manage to go and catch-up with some other WSers when the verdict comes down, please raise a glass on my behalf.
I am hoping for the best verdict at this stage - and that should be a celebration of Justice for Allison.

Cheers!
 
they'll get you said:
Thanks Makara. Would that photoshopped or superimposed?

I'm back. I can't sleep. What if the jurors are extra cautious and acquit. Will there be a public outcry?

I can't bare the thought of OW standing for the media in all her purple arrogance. ....now I'll never sleep.
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No TGY its not Photoshopped, well not by me. It looks like they are both standing outside a door or window. I have been thinking about taking Todd into Photoshop and 'dressing' him in a lycra Superman outfit just for you ladies (and blokes if you happen to like Superman or men in lycra). :laughing:

I think I've fallen in love with Todd Fuller's mind. :blushing:

Sweet dreams. :laughing:
 
Makara said:
No TGY its not Photoshopped, well not by me. It looks like they are both standing outside a door or window. I have been thinking about taking Todd into Photoshop and 'dressing' him in a lycra Superman outfit just for you ladies (and blokes if you happen to like Superman or men in lycra). :laughing:

I think I've fallen in love with Todd Fuller's mind. :blushing:

Sweet dreams. :laughing:
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Oh LOL!!!

:hero:
:countsheep:


Theres a picture of Hot Toddy walking down the street - the girl next to him could very well be Lois Lane :D
 
Onlyone said:
Awake & thinking over the events of the last few days. The court letter OW received, could it have been in regards to approaching a jury member? The Judge said he would investigate, how would that proceed? Official requests for interview? Or is it a police matter?
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I was wondering the same thing, earlier tonight
 
Makara said:
No TGY its not Photoshopped, well not by me. It looks like they are both standing outside a door or window. I have been thinking about taking Todd into Photoshop and 'dressing' him in a lycra Superman outfit just for you ladies (and blokes if you happen to like Superman or men in lycra). :laughing:

I think I've fallen in love with Todd Fuller's mind. :blushing:

Sweet dreams. :laughing:
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I'm in love with Trooper's mind ............. regardless of the body it travels in
 
*sneaking in while I'm supposed to be studying/writing*

Just wanted to say "thanks" to everybody who's put so much time and effort into tweet-relaying and responding to our questions (Alioop etc.).
 
they'll get you said:
Scenario.
As Allison suffered asthma I thought if he'd held the pillow over her face and went into the other room then later realised what he'd done and it was too late.

If she'd died that way, was it the asthma or him and the pillow??

Scenario.
A person who is threatened, runs for their life, runs out in front of a car and gets killed.
I believe the killer is the person who first was threatening their life to make him run. Not the driver of the car.
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Did Allison ever have asthma? I don't recall hearing that in any of the medical evidence. I would have expected it to be given some prominence?
 
UnfoldingTruth said:
I am a little bit worried they may come back with a manslaughter verdict as opposed to murder(I seriously hope not, though it is a better outcome than an outright aquital. Which I don't really think will happen). Simply because, they have no cause of death really. They may agree based on the evidence that he did kill her, but whether they can prove or believe intent is another thing. They could find him guilty of killing Allison- but can they say reasonably that he intended to do it, if they have no cause of death? They don't know for sure that those scratches were inflicted by Allison as he choked or suffocated her. It is not my belief that he didn't intend to, by the way..just trying to look at it from the point of view of jury and the law... I might be missing something with it though.
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My initial thoughts back in the early days was that it could have been manslaughter if he lashed out and hit her but didn't mean to kill her, which does happen with frightening regularity actually (they call them "one punch killers"). But the problem with that scenario in this case is everything that was subsequently done to cover up the death is inconsistent with a claim that he didn't mean to kill her. Usually where it's a one punch death the issue is not whether the perp killed the victim, it's whether they intended to.
 
UnfoldingTruth said:
I am a little bit worried they may come back with a manslaughter verdict as opposed to murder(I seriously hope not, though it is a better outcome than an outright aquital. Which I don't really think will happen). Simply because, they have no cause of death really. They may agree based on the evidence that he did kill her, but whether they can prove or believe intent is another thing. They could find him guilty of killing Allison- but can they say reasonably that he intended to do it, if they have no cause of death? They don't know for sure that those scratches were inflicted by Allison as he choked or suffocated her. It is not my belief that he didn't intend to, by the way..just trying to look at it from the point of view of jury and the law... I might be missing something with it though.
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No COD isn't unheard of in murder trials....recently, many convictions have occurred without even a body. A few years back, a very sad case I followed was that of Michigan's Venus Stewart. She'd tried for years to leave her abusive husband and finally escaped. He set a guy up to pose as himself while he drove to Michigan and abducted her in broad daylight (there were no witnesses). Venus is missing from her girls and her parents to this day.

No blood, no DNA, no COD and no body - he was convicted of her murder.

The jury will ask what are the chances he scratched himself the day she went missing, what are the chances she committed suicide, what are the chances a man who flat out stated he wanted out of his marriage could have the overwhelming misfortune to suffer a missing wife, a scratched face, blood in a car, leaves in her hair - all of which apparently implicate him in something much more sinister - if he wasn't involved.

But they'll also, imo, weigh how she didn't die. They may be missing a minute by minute timeline but we know she wasn't stabbed or shot, she didn't have a terminal illness, she didn't have a heart attack, she didn't jump off a bridge and the one method of death raised by the defence was proven as extremely unlikely (overdose). The prosecution has proffered smothering - which fits the evidence - to which a jury will have to question (in my optimism) how he could not have intended to kill her in the many minutes it takes to literally smother the life from someone.

I'll be shocked, saddened, and confused if the verdict is guilty of anything other than murder - the facts of this case don't fit anything else, in my opinion.

All JMO
 
digitup said:
I believe that that basic necessities re toilet paper,soap,razors and shaving cream are supplied courtesy of the tax payer? #SSS
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Wonder how often they get new razors? More frequently than every six months?
 
Tangled_Web said:
Did Allison ever have asthma? I don't recall hearing that in any of the medical evidence. I would have expected it to be given some prominence?
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Dr Milne said Ms Baden-Clay&#8217;s medical history showed she had asthma and had been prescribed Zoloft.
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http://www.couriermail.com.au/news/...his-wife-allison/story-fnihsrf2-1226950152264

I'm not surprised it wasn't made more of an issue. The Crown would've risked the jury seeing a possibility of asthma contributing to her death (more likely manslaughter conviction possible) and the defence couldn't go near it without admitting Gerard smothered her.

Even IF asthma was a contributing factor (unlikely since there is usually pathological evidence in fatal asthma attacks), in my opinion, it's still murder.

JMO
 
Bazinga said:
I've wondered if GBC and TMcH ever parked there at night. They couldn't go "parking" anywhere where people might see the car. Bleugh! The thought makes me sick.
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There's NO way GBC did not know about Kholo Creek bridge. You remember that property that GBC was managing at Anstead where he needed police (? Murray Watson?) involvement??? Sorry, I'm new to posting so I have NO idea how to find an old post let alone put it in a new post! Sorry Marly!! Anyway, that house was once owned by a good friend of my parents. It backs on to the State Forest and is literally 2 mins drive away from Kholo Bridge.

This case has felt so personal to me for so many reasons. I lived at Anstead (1km from Kholo bridge for 27 years and spent much time around Brookfield & Kenmore in my youth, so I can clearly see in my mind all the places that are relevant to this case. Allison is about the same age as me. I thought GBC was guilty of her murder right from the start for all the same reasons that most of you do. I still think he's guilty & I believe that he will be found guilty by the jury.

I have read every post since the start of this case, although I only made my first post a month ago. So many of the posters here are incredibly smart, witty & articulate. You say what I think, only better! Thank you so much for the journey we have taken together in our long wait for justice for Allison. Unfortunately, there are no winners in this terrible saga, even if GBC is found guilty. My heart breaks for those 3 innocent little girls who lost a mum & a dad on April 19, 2012. The same is true for Allison's parents, sister, brother & her very long list of friends. I only wish she knew how much she was loved.
 
catswhiskers said:
If <snipped> you (general you here at WS) had been called for duty on this specific jury, would you have raised your hand and told the court that you weren't a suitable jury candidate for this case?
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I would have. I have followed this case from the beginning, and there is absolutely no way in the world that I could ignore all that material and make a decision only on the evidence presented in court. That being the case, it is only fair to admit it, and let them select somebody who is able to comply with the rules. It would be difficult, but I know I would be going into the case already having a strong opinion that he is guilty, and that is not a fair trial whether we like it or not.
 
Freya1977 said:
I was in the actual court when he said it, and I thought of EBC because of her puffy jacket, and she had a purple scarf as well. Then shortly after, Olivia must have gotten chilly and she put on her jacket, it was bright purple, and I thought "oh my...."
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The judge says that somebody wearing purple approached the jury...then one of our WS members observes Olivia being given some official-looking paperwork on court letterhead that makes her visibly unhappy...hmm...putting 2 and 2 together....forming an opinion (just my opinion, of course!)
 
Smegal said:
Wonder how often they get new razors? More frequently than every six months?
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Prisoners on suicide watch would be given 'safety razors' yet ClayBoy could cut himself with one.
Remarkable!

No cut throat razor for Clay, the silly boy would cut his throat.
 
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