The Crown v Gerard Baden-Clay, 17th June - Trial Day 5 - Week 2

[bikerchick]

A very common problem with many, many women.

Premenstrual mood swings very common in 40s. Sorry to jump in here so late. I haven't been to court - home, depressed in black pants and a brown TShirt with the flu.

 

[tarjessi]

I also wonder if maybe they had their 15 minute meetings chatting out in the car so the kids didn't hear? I think that is where the fight has occurred where he killed her and loaded her straight into the car. Has a facetime chat with Dad about how to get rid of the body...or asking for a hand to move the body.

 

[Tishy]

Premenstrual mood swings very common in 40s. Sorry to jump in here so late. I haven't been to court - home, depressed in black pants and a brown TShirt with the flu.

Wouldn't it be great if everyone turned up to court in black wearing sunflowers

 

[KG1]

Premenstrual mood swings very common in 40s. Sorry to jump in here so late. I haven't been to court - home, depressed in black pants and a brown TShirt with the flu.

Get well soon bikerchick - changing TShirt to mustard might work - a la NBC.

 

[KG1]

I also wonder if maybe they had their 15 minute meetings chatting out in the car so the kids didn't hear? I think that is where the fight has occurred where he killed her and loaded her straight into the car. Has a facetime chat with Dad about how to get rid of the body...or asking for a hand to move the body.

Thuds and wheel spinning - he may have even run her over that night as she attempted to leave the property. MOO

 

[tarjessi]

If Allison was so incapacitated how did she manage to start a ballet school and attend once a week at her daughter's primary school? I hope the prosecution hammers this point also to discredit all evidence given by McHugh and the Baden-Clay-Walton-Pretend name clan...

 

[squizzey1]

Thuds and wheel spinning - he may have even run her over that night as she attempted to leave the property. MOO

wasn't enough body damage to have been run over , just from coroners report JMO

 

[tarjessi]

Thuds and wheel spinning - he may have even run her over that night as she attempted to leave the property. MOO

That is a horrifying thought...but with the post mortem I think she would have had more damage to her body and at least some fractures. He may have hit her head on the car with the damage to poor Allison's chin? Or they fell while he was struggling to strangle her and hit her chin?

 

[louisepiglet]

I also wonder if maybe they had their 15 minute meetings chatting out in the car so the kids didn't hear? I think that is where the fight has occurred where he killed her and loaded her straight into the car. Has a facetime chat with Dad about how to get rid of the body...or asking for a hand to move the body.

I would never suggest putting the girls on the stand but I cant believe the children had no inkling of any unrest in the marriage. Children are very aware of how their parents are feeling and unfortunately tend to blame themselves for any problems.. I wonder if the girls have opened up to their grandparents about what really happened inside those walls. Poor kids.

 

[DrWatson]

Hi troops

I'm flat out, working hard, and not able to follow continuously today, unlike the first day of the trial where I had the WS feed on constant refresh beside me in the office all day.

So I haven't yet had the chance to try and catch up with the current thread - I'm hoping to do that tonight sometime - by which time it will probably be 1000 pages long!

Just the bits I've managed to glance at, at random, give me the impression that the defence may still be trying to fly the depression and suicide kite - would that be correct? Or did Laurie Lumsden smack that idea down - I saw he was called, but haven't yet read his testimony?

I'm still waiting - not so patiently - for some of the forensic evidence to be presented, and for the prosecution to start asking some hard questions that actually implicate GBC of the crimes for which he is accused. So far, it's all been picture painting - still...!

I'm wondering when they will get onto the how, when, where, and who, bits...

Ahh well - back to work here!

 

[alioop]

There was no FaceTime chat.

 

[tarjessi]

There was no FaceTime chat.

Oh I am sorry I must have missed where that was discredited. Thank you for the clarification alioop

 

[louisepiglet]

Hi troops

I'm flat out, working hard, and not able to follow continuously today, unlike the first day of the trial where I had the WS feed on constant refresh beside me in the office all day.

So I haven't yet had the chance to try and catch up with the current thread - I'm hoping to do that tonight sometime - by which time it will probably be 1000 pages long!

Just the bits I've managed to glance at, at random, give me the impression that the defence may still be trying to fly the depression and suicide kite - would that be correct? Or did Laurie Lumsden smack that idea down - I saw he was called, but haven't yet read his testimony?

I'm still waiting - not so patiently - for some of the forensic evidence to be presented, and for the prosecution to start asking some hard questions that actually implicate GBC of the crimes for which he is accused. So far, it's all been picture painting - still...!

I'm wondering when they will get onto the how, when, where, and who, bits...

Ahh well - back to work here!

In my opinion the prosecution has done a great job in chopping the suicide theory to bits. The evidence given by the medical professionals was very clear. NOT suicidal. I too am interested in getting to the "nitty gritty" of the case. And now, unfortunately, I am off to work and will catch up tonight. I hope all goes well for the prosecution this afternoon.

 

[Mrs G Norris]

I think GBC deliberately sought out dependent women who would be more likely to stay with him after he was found to have cheated / lied / treated them badly / etc .. I can see this trait in both TM and ABC .. both women wanted to continue the relationship with him even after his lies / cheating was exposed .. this is because he chose them for this very trait.

 

[tarjessi]

I read all of the threads when the story first developed and when Gerard was arrested but to be honest haven't watched as closely until the trial started last week. It seems I have missed some information or changes to original information along the way.

 

[squizzey1]

That is a horrifying thought...but with the post mortem I think she would have had more damage to her body and at least some fractures. He may have hit her head on the car with the damage to poor Allison's chin? Or they fell while he was struggling to strangle her and hit her chin?

and the chipped tooth

 

[Amee]

1:06pm Wrap: So far today ...

* The court has heard from Gerard Baden-Clay's mistress Toni McHugh who said she learned that the former prestige real estate agent had affairs with other women, while juggling his marriage and his long-term secret relationship with her.

* The court also heard from GP Dr Nicholas Burke who treated Mrs Baden-Clay in late 2011, after she discovered her husband's affair, but noted she did not show any signs of being suicidal.

"My opinion was that she wasn't at a high risk of suicide. I thought that ... she had a high degree of resilience," Dr Burke said.

* Psychologist Dr Lawrence Lumsden told the court he treated Gerard and Allison in late 2011. He said Gerard indicated he wanted to leave his wife, but also wanted to explore options to salvage his marriage.

"I think people at that stage were stuck between the dichotomy of staying or going," Dr Lumsden said.

* Counsellor Carmel Ritchie was called to the witness box. She conducted a counselling session with Allison on March 27, 2012 and a counselling session with Gerard on April 16, 2012. She said Allison joined the last 10 to 15 minutes of Gerard's counselling session.

* The court also heard that Mr Baden-Clay's affair with Ms McHugh began on August 27, 2008, just four days after his wedding anniversary. Allison learned of the affair three years later on September 14, 2011.

Read more: http://www.brisbanetimes.com.au/que...ay-5-week-2-20140617-3a9wj.html#ixzz34ri5ixEH

 

[spratsmum]

I wonder who made her feel like that.
IMO GBC was only concerned with his own happiness and if you did not contribute to that happiness you were the problem. True narcissist.

I would say the entire Baden Clay did. I have been trying to write this all day, phones ring, children to pick up, errands to be run, perhaps I will get a fair run now. This is my opinions only and it is something that I have been pondering for a while but crystallized yesterday with the family testimony. I can relate to this because in some ways it reflects my family.

Allison was a cultural person, ballet, languages etc were her strengths but they would not have been prized in the BC environment. There would have been put downs, snide remarks, comments that eroded at her self esteem. Then came the issues of depression, the BC wouldn't have understood that, she needed to snap out of it - a broken leg can be seen and has a defined period of recovery, not so with depression. There has to be some sensitivity in you to be depressed, the BC don't seem to have that trait, even the females.

The name and the prestige that went with it would have opened doors particularly in British society, but also in South Africa, not something Australians take a lot of notice of and something that they smirk at about "poms". The pride though of the Baden name would have been very strong, hence Olivia name change.

Gerard was the third child and the second son, really nothing remarkable and truly the "spare". He would have known all his life that he wasn't as "good" as his brother, but would have strived to prove himself to Dad. I am sorry Toni, but you were just another conquest, he wasn't leaving his marriage for you, and he didn't love you. Telling you to "fall in love" with some else was the ultimate insult I think, he was controlling your life, he didn't want to be with you permanently, but he gave you permission to love some one else, he would always be your greatest love.

Gerard, Allison and NBC lived close, they would have looked after the children, been the first port of call. Allison had been absorbed into there family life, but she wasn't a fully fledged member. She was only Gerards' wife and the mother of his daughters.

No matter what scientific evidence tells us, Allison would have been the one at fault in the conception of three daughters'. Three chances for a son and it didn't happen, and then she was bring up the girls in a feminine manner. Did you notice that the toys in the back of car that were headed for the charity bin were all dolls, prams etc. No Saturday morning rugby for poor old Gerard, but lo and behold, his brother, the heir apparent scores on the first try with a son and heir to the family name. How inadequate poor Gerard must have felt.

We come then to the 19th of April 2012, poor old Allison is sitting in the hairdressers, it is the third attempt to get it right, I would be starting to feel cross. Add to that Olivia and her children are all having a family BBQ at the NBC, she would certain that she is a large part of the conversation and of course the birth of the new baby. She would have liked to have had a son, but finance won't allow it now, let alone the fact that she and Gerard no longer have a sexual relationship. Also Allison can't breastfeed, but I bet Olivia can and Allison feels inadequate each time she see Olivia feeding. Of course that is another expense Allison is responsible for. Then there are the old demons - money and her failing marriage, all Allison fault of course. The conference tomorrow, I am the new girl, will I measure up, will my hair be alright and my clothes, of course Gerard says I'm fat so I won't look good. How many people there will know Gerard, and that his business is in real financial trouble, and then of course the mistresses and my inadequacies as a lover. Poor Allison life must have seemed really horrid that night.

Allison returns home, the children come in and are put to bed. The talk between Gerard and Allison turns to the new baby, "Why wasn't it us Allison?" says a distressed GBC, "oh and by the way, you can't go to that conference tomorrow." "Why?" asks Allison, and then "because Toni is going", "she has only just started her job Allison, you don't have to explain to a boss, but she would" and the conversation goes on. Allison reaches out and scratches Gerard face once or twice, and in self defence the poor man, restrains her and accidental kills her.

The ending is perhaps a bit Mills and Boonish, but I think poor Allison was killed by the hand of Gerard Baden Clay, but her blood is on the hands of all the Baden Clays and her slow painful death took place over many years.

I am reading a book at the moment about Prince Charles and Camilla, and when it was writing that I was struck with the similarities of the two marriages. Thanks for reading, if you have got this far.

 

[Amee]

pm: The 37th witness in the trial is Relationships Australia relationships counsellor Carmel Ritchie. She said she had been in that role for 14 years this July. Ms Ritchie said she had a Bachelor of Education, a graduate diploma and a Masters in Counselling.

She said she consulted Allison Baden-Clay on March 27, 2012.

She agreed she met both Gerard Baden-Clay and his wife on April 16, 2012, but spent most of the session with the accused. Ms Ritchie said she took notes of both consultations.

She said the appointment for March 27, 2012 was booked by Ms Baden-Clay on March 12.

“Later at about 2pm approximately she rang again and made an appointment also for the 26th of March, a Monday, and that appointment was for herself and Gerard,” she said.

But Ms Ritchie said she cancelled the appointment on March 26 because she had to attend a funeral.

 

[Bayside]

If Allison was so incapacitated how did she manage to start a ballet school and attend once a week at her daughter's primary school? I hope the prosecution hammers this point also to discredit all evidence given by McHugh and the Baden-Clay-Walton-Pretend name clan...

Don't forget that Olivia said Allison didn't drive but Gerard said after she found out about the affair and started working with him he would contact Toni when she went on the school run.