The Crown v Gerard Baden-Clay, 1st July - Trial Day 13, Week 3

[Trooper]

Gerard is rather insistent that he was under no financial pressure at all.. A dead giveaway.. he wants that deflected, and permanently.... not going to happen. . Every entry into any accounts book under the name of Baden-Clay, Bruce Overland, Superguy, the Brookie Stud, the Counselling Guru, the real estate mogul, the Friend of MP's, the TopStep Company, Settle Company, .. on and on and on.. bring pencils and paper and an ordinary calculator for some of these sessions coming up..

You wont need anything complicated.. toes and fingers will probably give as good an accounting as anything else.. ..

 

[Cattail]

Okay sorry I must have missed that post so I went back and found it. Yes those causes of death are unlikely, but no one has put forward a likely cod. Drowning or falling wasn't ruled out, however unlikely.

Don't get me wrong, I see that everything put together is damning, but for what it's worth one has to lie when keeping up appearances.

For me there is the what if he isn't lying now, which creates reasonable doubt.

I understand that some of you guys have been here for 2 years and have made up your minds that he is definitely guilty. I just trying to see it from the perspective of the jury, which is hard in itself because we don't get to see reactions.

Possible plausible alternatives I have no idea really. I guess jealous mistress, suicide and misadventure. While I'm rambling I fully believe that someone can commit suicide while appearing happy and functioning. And to the people that say she wouldn't leave her girls, it happens, as my mum left me and my siblings.





That being said, I'm sorry for Allison and her family, and especially her children and I hope they find peace, whatever the outcome. :heartbeat::heartbeat:

Yes I have tried to see it as the jury would too, and while I have my own opinion I'm not yet convinced that they have been shown enough.

The thing that makes me believe it wasn't suicide is where she was found, and with the car back at home no easy means to have gotten herself there.

Many of the other reasons people have suggested prove it isn't suicide are myths in my opinion.

I'm sorry about your mum.

 

[missfisher]

It shouldn't matter that it wasn't made under oath. The prosecution are trying to show that he has been inconsistent i.e. the blog entry is inconsistent with his claims that he basically ran the household single-handed all the time. It's a legitimate way of cross-examining someone. They could be objecting that the prosecution hasn't laid the foundation for it or that it's irrelevant though.

True, but the blog could have been totally fictional as well...

 

[Consider]

So IMO he comes across as a massive manipulator but I think it's not going to get a conviction.

Oddsocks: what character traits would you consider as prerequisites for a murderer?

Fuller is questioning GBC's personality, persuasions and propensity to consider the possibility of getting away with murder.

What causes someone to kill another person for the first time?

Like you, I'm keeping an open mind. Well I'm trying to...

What does it take, in the lead up; to killing someone for the first time?

Did GBC have his own motive/s? external pressure/s? the physical and/or emotional capacity? the upbringing? the personality 'type', etc.

Queensland Police seem to think so whether or not you or I do or not.

 

[Liadan]

:floorlaugh: :floorlaugh: :floorlaugh: :floorlaugh:

(re:troopers post in y'ear!)



bahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahaha (its not enough - I could fill the page!):great::Banane10:

 

[possumheart]

Gerard is rather insistent that he was under no financial pressure at all.. A dead giveaway.. he wants that deflected, and permanently.... not going to happen. . Every entry into any accounts book under the name of Baden-Clay, Bruce Overland, Superguy, the Brookie Stud, the Counselling Guru, the real estate mogul, the Friend of MP's, the TopStep Company, Settle Company, .. on and on and on.. bring pencils and paper and an ordinary calculator for some of these sessions coming up..

You wont need anything complicated.. toes and fingers will probably give as good an accounting as anything else.. ..

You forgot Brookie Burgerman
ETA: I see you covered that with "Brookie Stud", sorry.

 

[toe]

Baden-Clay said he did not think Ms McHugh was vulnerable when he first counselled her through relationship problems in 2008.

Baden-Clay Mobile Counselling service!!

Baden-Clay HANDS ON Mobile Counselling service!!

:floorlaugh:

 

[Trooper]

well... there is spin, and there is salesmanship and then there is that horrible thing called arithmetic... spin and selling seem to crumple and fade in the face of 2 + 2 = 4, no matter which way its spun or sold. It relentlessly, without apology or shame, comes up as 4 every darn time..

You can colour it blue, or pink, you can hold it under water, you can throw it in the air, you can boil it and set it in jelly, but 2 + 2 will always do the same bloody thing, right in your face..

This is what Gerard is going to have to deal with... .

 

[DrWatson]

Okay sorry I must have missed that post so I went back and found it. Yes those causes of death are unlikely, but no one has put forward a likely cod. Drowning or falling wasn't ruled out, however unlikely.

Actually, with all due respect, drowning WAS ruled out. There wasn't a single diatom in her tissues - and the diatom/drowning expert witness stated categorically that she did not drown. And I'd agree with that, for what it's worth.

In terms of a fall from the bridge - apart from the lack of broken bones or any other impact-type injury, there is the problem of Allison being found UNDER the bridge - which in turn also goes against the theory (which I used to hold) that she was dropped off the edge of the bridge, eg by rolling the body under the lower rail of the bridge. But the more I've heard and learned, and knowing the area well, the more I now believe she was simply dragged down that bank on the upstream side of the bridge, onto the concrete pillar-base under the bridge, and rolled off it. Perhaps the intent was to hide her, perhaps not. Maybe the intent was for her to be washed out into the Brisbane River and then downstream. Who knows?

But I really, really, doubt the suicide angle. And why no phone with her? If she left it at home - where is it? If she took it with her - where was it? And how did she get to Kholo anyway, and why?

I think it all comes down to likelihoods

 

[Waiting for Justice]

Gerard is rather insistent that he was under no financial pressure at all.. A dead giveaway.. he wants that deflected, and permanently.... not going to happen. . Every entry into any accounts book under the name of Baden-Clay, Bruce Overland, Superguy, the Brookie Stud, the Counselling Guru, the real estate mogul, the Friend of MP's, the TopStep Company, Settle Company, .. on and on and on.. bring pencils and paper and an ordinary calculator for some of these sessions coming up..

You wont need anything complicated.. toes and fingers will probably give as good an accounting as anything else.. ..

This is what I have been waiting for......follow the money!

 

[drsleuth]

Crown Prosecutor Todd Fuller QC


:loveyou::loveyou: :gthanks:

 

[Aunty]

FromTodays postings of msm tweets from WSers...

Todays GBC 'I cant remember':

He said Toni McHugh called him and it was during that conversation he told her his wife would be attending the same real estate conference as her the next day.

“That conversation, I can’t remember all of the details of it, but Toni was not pleased about the fact Allison was going to be at the conference the following day and I basically didn’t say very much and really didn’t respond to that,” he said.
-----
He said police arrived at the home about 8am but he couldn’t remember the time exactly.
-----
Gerard says he can't remember why he told her he loved her on three occasions in the April communication. #badenclay
-----
Fuller says Toni gave him an out that day. Gerard says he can't remember. #badenclay
-----
Fuller says he even spoke about a car that would fit his children and hers. Gerard says he actually doesn't remember that. #badenclay
-----
12:34pm: Mr Fuller: "When did you first tell Allison that you didn't love her?"

Mr Baden-Clay: "I can't remember. I did tell her that on an occasion, but I can't remember."
-----
Fuller says Toni told him if he needed to be with his wife, to tell her. Gerard said "no, I will be leaving my wife". #badenclay

Gerard says he is being asked to comment on something he can't remember.*
-----
Gerard says he doesn't remember that. He remembers telling Toni they needed to end the physical contact. #badenclay
-----
David Murray ‏@TheMurrayD 1m
Fuller is asking Gerard about a blog he wrote about Allison's 40th birthday #badenclay

David Murray ‏@TheMurrayD 59s
Gerard says he can't remember, asks if it is a blog he wrote about his favourite day of the year. It's not #badenclay
---
Baden-Clay said he did not remember talking to Ms McHugh about the type of car they would buy, as she had three sons.
-----
Baden-Clay said he could not remember telling Ms McHugh he wanted to leave his wife but wasn’t ready yet in December, 2011.
-----


.

This is Gold for the Prosecution.
Gerard has shown the jury , for 2 days on the stand, that he has an amazing memory !
So, it is quite obvious, that when he can't remember something, he is Manipulating and Telling Lies.
Great stuff. :seeya:

 

[sheldor]

True, but the blog could have been totally fictional as well...

Yes, it could, but it doesn't really matter. All the prosecution are trying to do is to show that either his story then was a lie, or his story now is a lie

 

[catswhiskers]

Is there any chance that the defence weren't fully aware of the blog and need time to get their heads around it or advise GBC about how to respond?
Otherwise I have been enjoying the image of him squirming (created by reading the tweets being shared here) just a little more than I should be. I don't think the high whiny voice or pitifully raised eyebrows are helping him out in the stand today. Loving the way the prosecution has pounced (I've been imagining the questions being delivered in a rapid-fire barrage from Fuller) on clearly illustrating his duplicitous treatment of Allison and even TM. Nope ... he's not sounding like a terribly trustworthy, caring, or self-sacrificing guy today. Let's see what kind of spin is put on the blog entry after lunch.

Just had a joyous thought - imagine what the prosecution is going to do with those scratch marks! :loveyou:

 

[Oddsocks]

Oddsocks: what character traits would you consider as prerequisites for a murderer?

Fuller is questioning GBC's personality, persuasions and propensity to consider the possibility of getting away with murder.

What causes someone to kill another person for the first time?

Like you, I'm keeping an open mind. Well I'm trying to...

What does it take, in the lead up; to killing someone for the first time?

Did GBC have his own motive/s? external pressure/s? the physical and/or emotional capacity? the upbringing? the personality 'type', etc.

Queensland Police seem to think so whether or not you or I do or not.

Good points. I don't know.

 

[possumheart]

well... there is spin, and there is salesmanship and then there is that horrible thing called arithmetic... spin and selling seem to crumple and fade in the face of 2 + 2 = 4, no matter which way its spun or sold. It relentlessly, without apology or shame, comes up as 4 every darn time..

You can colour it blue, or pink, you can hold it under water, you can throw it in the air, you can boil it and set it in jelly, but 2 + 2 will always do the same bloody thing, right in your face..

This is what Gerard is going to have to deal with... .

"You put lipstick on a pig, it's still a pig."

 

[Deleted member 102539]

Can someone please post a list of important prosecution questions, that have not already been asked?
As our friend , Dr Watson just said, they might be reading here.
Our list , whilst in the break, could help the Prosecution ... to nail him.

No list, but only one question:

Mr. Gerred, don't you think, that you are making the life of your beautiful little girls re their future much more difficult, if you are not willing now and here to tell the only truth?

 

[Amee]

The jurors have each been handed a copy of the floor plan.

The jurors have each been handed a hard copy of the phone log

Jurors were given a booklet of maps and photographs to compare with the scene

Read more: http://www.brisbanetimes.com.au/que...y-13-week-4-20140701-3b55i.html#ixzz36BXO81s5

http://www.abc.net.au/news/2014-06-...ry-see-site-where-allisons-body-found/5542460

 

[Zorro]

Question: What did Allison have for dinner on the 19th since she wasn't around at NBC's and did she have a cuppa and TimTams to watch the Footy Show?

There are always a few cups and crumbs in the sink in the morning.

 

[Susan12]

I'm sad about the break, gives him time to regroup, I wanted them to keep the pressure on. Really hope they allow this blog to be admitted, and today. It was publicly available so it wasn't private and it's existence not exactly secret.