The Crown v Gerard Baden-Clay, 2nd July - Trial Day 14, Week 3

[UnfoldingTruth]

David Murray ‏@TheMurrayD 52s

Gerard says he was concerned Toni wasn't coping because of her personality #badenclay

Kate Kyriacou ‏@KateKyriacou 59s

Gerard says he gave Toni a separation date he wouldn't keep because he was worried about her mental strength. #badenclay

Caroline Overington ‏@overingtonc 1m

He doesn't have the spare bed anymore #badenclay

David Murray ‏@TheMurrayD 58s

Gerard: some of the things I said and did were pretty naive and stupid #badenclay

David Murray ‏@TheMurrayD 54s

Gerard: I wanted to distance myself physically. The physical side was important to Toni #badenclay

:what: And yet yesterday, was it, he was saying it was purely for the pysical side for hiself. that they weren't in a 'relationship' that for him it was for the sex? another contradiction.

 

[Amee]

Tessa Scott ‏@TessaScott9 1m

Toxicologist saying ingesting more than 100mg of sertraline may have led to elevated levels. @9NewsBrisbane #badenclay

Kate Kyriacou ‏@KateKyriacou 1m

Dr Robertson says another is Seratonin Syndrome - unusual behaviours, elevation of body temperature. #badenclay

David Murray ‏@TheMurrayD 1m

Dr Robertson says you can then move into a state of serotonin syndrome, can involve unusual behaviours #badenclay

Caroline Overington ‏@overingtonc 1m

The drugs affect brain chemistry #badenclay

 

[Tishy]

David Murray ‏@TheMurrayD 38s

Dr Robertson says common adverse effects include anxiety, confusion, elevated temperature #badenclay

Kate Kyriacou ‏@KateKyriacou 49s

Dr Robertson says side effects from taking Sertraline could include anxiety, agitation, confusion, thermoregulation. #badenclay

Kate Kyriacou ‏@KateKyriacou 35s

Dr Robertson says another is Seratonin Syndrome - unusual behaviours, elevation of body temperature. #badenclay

.....and inability to walk 14k unassisted....PFFFFT

 

[Amee]

Caroline Overington ‏@overingtonc 40s

One adverse affect can be increased likelihood of suicide - it varies between individuals #badenclay

David Murray ‏@TheMurrayD 45s

Dr Robertson says there can be mixed results and effects, that's why there's numerous medications to treat the same problem #badenclay

 

[DrWatson]

Oh I really REALLY hope Fuller is well prepared to cross examine this toxicologist:

"Are you a clinician?"
"Are you aware that sertraline is concentrated in the liver even during life, and that the samples taken from Allison were from her liver?"
"Are you aware of this reference, very recent, from someone at WebSleuths, but taken from the most prestigious pharmacology journal, that liver concentrations can be 50-90 times higher than peripheral blood concentrations?"
"How many times has suicide been reported either directly as a result of sertraline overdose, or as a result of sertraline side effects?"
"When you say that people on anti-depressants are likely to be depressed, and that depressed people are more likely to commit suicide - are you being flippant or facetious?"

 

[Amee]

Kate Kyriacou ‏@KateKyriacou 33s

Dr Robertson says Seratonin Syndrome happens when your seratonin levels are too high. #badenclay

Caroline Overington ‏@overingtonc 49s

It's not always easy to get the balance right which is why some drugs don't work on some people and do work on others #badenclay

Kate Kyriacou ‏@KateKyriacou 38s

Dr Robertson says this can lead to increased agitation, unusual behaviours, confusion, problems with muscle control. #badenclay

 

[BJsleuth]

The other thing that sticks in my mind was when speaking to Sgt Curtis, G said the pants were light tracksuit grey. To me that is grey marle. The pants on the mannequin were dark grey. If you wanted your wife found, you'd be saying "No, they're the wrong coloured pants!" He said she had a singlet top, yet the mannequin showed a black T-shirt (this is what OW said G told her, either a black or white T-shirt).

 

[Amee]

Caroline Overington ‏@overingtonc 42s

It's also why there are so many different types of these drugs: it takes time to figure out which one might work #badenclay

Caroline Overington ‏@overingtonc 37s

People who use these drugs tend to be depressed #badenclay

 

[Amee]

Kate Kyriacou ‏@KateKyriacou 47s

Dr Robertson says studies show people on anti depressants have a higher risk of suicide. #badenclay

 

[toe]

.....and inability to walk 14k unassisted....PFFFFT

Maybe he's trying to tell use Gerry got stuck into the Zoloft and that's the reason he murdered Allison.

Not his fault it was the Zoloft.:floorlaugh:

 

[Consider]

The defence is really clutching those straws to suggest the leaves washed into Allison's hair and just happened to be the same as the ones in her backyard. All but two types were in her yard I think. There are too many coincidences in his story. It doesn't add up. Does the jury have to consider the likelihood of these circumstantial things happening at once, or just each one on their own?

They're spending much time and energy on this with the jury because they are most concerned this flora from the house in Allison's hair could bring their client unstuck.


jmo

 

[Neuromancer]

It's my belief GBC wasn't in relationships for the sex at all

It was so he could become the centre of a woman's attentions and energies

It's the attention his narcissistic self needed

He gave women sex in return for ego satisfaction

yes exactly. And imo one reason why prostitutes were unlikely. He's in it for the thrill of the ego trip and manipulation of seducing women and keeping them in thrall (and just paying someone for sex doesn't have that excitement). Also why he'd never willingly give up either A or TM - he needs the attention of both, and feeds off the drama between the two.

That whole thing of sleeping with J. Crane in Sydney and telling TM about it, causing her to dash down to Sydney to "keep her man". The Narcissistic MO is "see what happens if you don't pay enough attention to me?"

 

[Mountain Misst]

Oh I really REALLY hope Fuller is well prepared to cross examine this toxicologist:

"Are you a clinician?"
"Are you aware that sertraline is concentrated in the liver even during life, and that the samples taken from Allison were from her liver?"
"Are you aware of this reference, very recent, from someone at WebSleuths, but taken from the most prestigious pharmacology journal, that liver concentrations can be 50-90 times higher than peripheral blood concentrations?"
"How many times has suicide been reported either directly as a result of sertraline overdose, or as a result of sertraline side effects?"
"When you say that people on anti-depressants are likely to be depressed, and that depressed people are more likely to commit suicide - are you being flippant or facetious?"

:bow: :bow: :bow:

 

[Amee]

David Murray ‏@TheMurrayD 42s

Medications adjust brain chemistry, take four to five weeks to perform, can be negatives in that time #badenclay

Caroline Overington ‏@overingtonc 52s

Dr Robertson says its not clear why, but it could be because the drugs interfere with brain chemistry #badenclay

Katrina Blowers ‏@katrinablowers 42s

Toxicologist tells #badenclay jury, studies show individuals on anti-depressants 'more likely' to commit suicide. @7NewsBrisbane

Caroline Overington ‏@overingtonc 59s

That's why there are warning leaflets in the packets #badenclay

David Murray ‏@TheMurrayD 39s

Prosecutor Todd Fuller now questioning Dr Robertson #badenclay

 

[Trooper]

How clever must Alison have been to haul herself 14 klms in the dark , overmedicated, confused, suicidal, and kill herself, and then bury herself half way in the mud under a bridge, in the one place where it takes 11 days with 100's searching to find the body..


all on the spur of the moment, apparently... no warning.. remembered to throw her phone away, keep her jewellery on, get her hair done for the occasion, arrange a sleepover for her kids, watch the footy show, arrange to meet someone in the morning, arrange to return ball gowns....

astonishing , really.. sort of like a superwoman scenario.

 

[BJsleuth]

A few interesting comments he's said so far.. still going through..

"Fuller: did you call Allison's friend Kerry-Anne Walker. Gerard: didn't anticipate Allison would have walked that far #badenclay"

I think Fuller should have said two things in this section of questioning. He should have pointed out that when someone is missing it's not just about where they could have walked but who they could have phoned, given she had her phone. Also when he said why did you not call her parents he said that he was busy with police Fuller could have said but why did you not call her parents BEFORE phoning the police in the first place. That's what most men would do, they'd think a woman would call her mum."

"Fuller: your dad came over, you and sister searched streets, why take the Captiva. Gerard: my car had been in an accident #badenclay"

Glad Fuller pointed out it was drivable and he had been driving it.


When asked why he didn't show the doctor all the other injuries Gerard said "Gerard says no, they were self inflicted. It just didn't seem relevant. "

So the ones he did show the doctor were NOT self inflicted then they were NOT caused by him with a razor?

I'm still reading to see whether Fuller caught that line and pointed that out.

Even if you think they wouldn't phone a friend or a relative, you'd still check call those friends/relatives just in case.

 

[possumheart]

I think GBC has placed so much emphasis on Allison's depression to placate his family. He had to face the fact that they were going to be exposed to another side of him, and gossiped about when the salacious news of his womanising hit the media. He needed to blame Allison for a sexless marriage.

 

[Amee]

Kate Kyriacou ‏@KateKyriacou 43s

Dr Robertson agrees there were only trace levels of Sertraline in her stomach. #badenclay

Caroline Overington ‏@overingtonc 1m

The Crown notes that levels of the drug in Allison's stomach were very low #badenclay

ate Kyriacou ‏@KateKyriacou 31s

Dr Robertson agrees because of redistribution after death, it was possible there was no Sertraline in Allison's stomach at all. #badenclay

David Murray ‏@TheMurrayD 45s

Fuller says Allison was a long time Zoloft user, wouldn't be a naive patient, would have a tolerance. Dr Robertson agrees #badenclay

 

[Mountain Misst]

yes exactly. And imo one reason why prostitutes were unlikely. He's in it for the thrill of the ego trip and manipulation of seducing women and keeping them in thrall (and just paying someone for sex doesn't have that excitement). Also why he'd never willingly give up either A or TM - he needs the attention of both, and feeds off the drama between the two.

That whole thing of sleeping with J. Crane in Sydney and telling TM about it, causing her to dash down to Sydney to "keep her man". The Narcissistic MO is "see what happens if you don't pay enough attention to me?"

Exactly - spot on Neuromancer :rollercoaster:

 

[Amee]

Caroline Overington ‏@overingtonc 40s

The doctor agrees that based on her stomach levels she may have had no tablets in her stomach at all at time of death #badenclay

Katrina Blowers ‏@katrinablowers 32s

Prosecution questioning the toxicologist, he agrees Allison #badenclay would have had a tolerance to Zoloft after 8 or 9 yrs.@7NewsBrisbane

Emmy Kubainski ‏@emmykubainski 37s

Defence expert agrees that Allison Baden-Clay may not have taken any Zoloft at the time of her death. @7NewsBrisbane #badenclay

Caroline Overington ‏@overingtonc 35s

The doctor agrees that Allison's body had been decaying for 10 or 11 days before the post mortem #badenclay