The Crown v Gerard Baden-Clay, 7th July - Trial Day 15

[JK673]

Ok that'd be good
I like to read up on local cases I haven't heard of before!

I'd be interested too pls

 

[Her Honour]

http://images.brisbanetimes.com.au/2014/06/10/5498860/prosecution-620x349.jpg

Come on team! We have faith in you!

And in some cases, a crush thereon!

 

[Her Honour]

I remove Byrne from the equation.. he speaks under Gerards instruction.. it was laid on with a trowel.. I had to turn away from the texts at times, .. one can only take so much applied and determined misogyny per hour... and this wasn't subtle, either..

I know that many people will not believe me when I state, under oath, that for the first time I felt a twinge of empathy for Ms McHugh... I cant explain it, it probably wont last for long.. but there it is.. I did..

I believe you Troops, no woman would like to be summed up by the 'love of her life' as wallpaper, an artefact, played. Sad.

 

[alioop]

The grass IS always greener on the other side when you neglect to water your own.

quote of the day!

The grass is greener over the septic tank.

Ditto!

Hello Snails, thanks for your reports today. You sure you're not actually a Court reporter? You didn't miss a thing.

I prolly shouldn't answer the Legal Aid question, as I'm not verified, but the lovely Alioop shouldn't be too far away If you can't wait, I believe she addressed it upthread somewheres.

Why thank you Her Honour. I believe GBC's defence is funded by legal aid due to his lack of finances.

 

[tarjessi]

I am sorry Marly!

 

[Anemone]

Okay, here goes since I have the go ahead... I sat behind the accused's parents in court today. His mother was clearly visible as she was in front of me slightly to the side and appears strange to me, perhaps either not highly intelligent or on sedatives (or both), blinking a lot and pursing and unpursing her lips and then at times appearing to nod off during the proceedings. At one point the accused's father lent forward and she rubbed his back and they locked arms :facepalm:

When Byrne detailed Carmel Ritchie's approach to Gerrred and Allison's 10-minute therapy sessions every second night, Mrs BC shook her head repeatedly and then leaned over to her husband and said "what a fool she was" meaning Carmel Ritchie. I took this to mean that for Mrs BC all of this was the counsellor's fault, and that her son had no part to play in this scenario. I think she is totally in denial that her son has done anything wrong. As for NBC, he's a closed book and I couldn't see his face clearly as he was directly in front of me.

Olivia became agitated when the defense barrister mentioned Gerrrred cheating on his mistress while cheating on his wife (get your head around that one!) and twisted her gold necklace in her hands around and around. She appeared very alert and 'interested' in the proceedings, watching the display screens and frowning from time to time reading them. Adam, the brother, who I think was there with his wife (the so-and-so who produced the heir to the Baden-Clay name which caused such apparent distress to Allison??) seemed polite and friendly, and being seated close to me I noticed him constantly opening his eyes widely while the proceedings were underway. Perhaps the 'golden' older brother had sullied the family name somewhat or disappointed him in some way.

I also found being seated close to Allison's family very interesting, and a contrast to the Baden-Clays. They are genuine, smile at you (although I don't know them), chat to you and engage with you. They are really surprised at the interest in the case, why people would come out of support for Allison and be concerned at the outcome of the trial. Priscilla Dickie is one of 11 siblings, many of whom are there daily with their spouses in support. A large and supportive family by all accounts, who all get along well with each other (and perhaps don't have their own agendas?) Allison's sister and brother and wife were sitting with Mr and Mrs Dickie. I felt terrible for them listening yet again to their daughter being painted as a depressive and suicidal woman who couldn't cope with life. When a close-up image of Allison's body lying on the creek bed was shown, there must've been some signal to the family prior that I didn't pick up, as several of them left the court before it was displayed on the screen.

I was shocked at the image. I'm not sure if I'm allowed to discuss it here, and please delete this if not. The defense barrister Byrne showed it when trying to argue that Allison could have floated down the creek or drowned, or the plant matter could have come to be found in her hair by her being in the creek. Her body looked bloated and a sickening orange colour in the photo. You could clearly see her bike pants and what looked like a cropped sports top but her back and shoulders were clearly exposed, and I couldn't see the jumper in the image, but her hair seemed to be floating to the side of her body. For her loved ones, I can see why the graphic-ness of it would cause nightmares as I have a similar image of my father on his death-bed with an intubation into his throat while he was in intensive care. It took me decades to get rid of this image, and to remember him as he was before this. Allison's family have endured so much, and her parents in their 70's are now looking after 3 lively grand-daughters and no doubt giving them the love and security they need.

 

[Trooper]

Anenome!... brilliant brilliant post.. what an incredible scene you portrayed..

thankyou, thankyou.

 

[Fly]

Yes, thanks anemone! So great to have this insight.

 

[Susan12]

A friend who is an Aussie lawyer messaged me the other day and said this is what will collapse the prosecution case - because they can not conclusively prove that the razor didn't cause the scrapes.

I'm shocked this would have been said. I think they've proved it. They had multiple experts testify they look like fingernail marks and that they're implausible (I think that word was used) to be shaving marks. Anyone who has ever shaved their body knows what shaving cuts look like. The other thing they know is that you feel when you've cut yourself straight away and you stop. You don't continue and make such long cuts not once, not twice, but three times. And funny too how they were all parallel to each other not randomly over the face. Please, if the jury members believe they are shaving cuts they have rocks in their head. I don't think the prosecution have to prove conclusively they are, that's why it's reasonable doubt, not any doubt. It wouldn't be reasonable to think they could be shaving marks.

 

[Her Honour]

Gosh Anemone, what a surreal experience. I'm both sorry you had to see that image and pleased that the parties and administration seem to have found a way whereby Allison's family does not. That image really brings it back to why we are all here.

In that context, what an odd comment by the accused's mother. You would think that having been in open court for weeks now, one would be careful what one said out loud.

 

[Daisyinthedesert]

Sorry if this has already been asked and answered but if GBC is found guilty, can he appeal? How long would he have to appeal? Also if found not guilty (God forbid!) can the prosecution also appeal?

 

[Susan12]

So! Allison goes for a walk at 6am, walks 14 kms, throws herself off a bridge, doesn't break anything, doesn't drown. And no-one saw her walk all that way. 14kms at a brisk walk would take at least 3-4 hours on the flat. Out that way there are so many hills she would have been walking for at least 5 hours, yet no-one saw her. Not even when they were searching for her at 8am? Great Defence Byrne. Far out.

So agree. No one saw her and she didn't change her mind or get a clearer mind (depending on the theory) in all that time. I don't believe thats a reasonable proposition. I hope the jury really took notice of that distance. No wonder they didn't want locals in the jury, that is such a major factor against the suicide/accident theory.

 

[Freya1977]

Thank you Anemone, your post is very much appreciated! It must have been horrible to see the photo of Allison's body

Sent from my GT-N5110 using Tapatalk

 

[JK673]

I'm shocked this would have been said. I think they've proved it. They had multiple experts testify they look like fingernail marks and that they're implausible (I think that word was used) to be shaving marks. Anyone who has ever shaved their body knows what shaving cuts look like. The other thing they know is that you feel when you've cut yourself straight away and you stop. You don't continue and make such long cuts not once, not twice, but three times. And funny too how they were all parallel to each other not randomly over the face. Please, if the jury members believe they are shaving cuts they have rocks in their head. I don't think the prosecution have to prove conclusively they are, that's why it's reasonable doubt, not any doubt. It wouldn't be reasonable to think they could be shaving marks.

Well, the defence said that the jury need to use common sense - anyone with common, logical sense would convict. All the little bits may not prove it but when they are all tied together - WHAM BAM THANK YOU MAAM! Slam Dunk IMO

 

[marlywings]

Not bothering to add in the headline on tonight's report...

July 08, 2014

Defence barrister Michael Byrne QC in his closing address to the Supreme Court in Brisbane put to the jury that the Brookfield mother-of-three first took a 100mg tablet of the antidepressant Zoloft before leaving the house in her walking clothes.

He said Ms Baden-Clay might have decided to walk out into the night, further than usual, against a background of mental turmoil over her husband’s long-running affair, which they had discussed in detail the previous two nights; the possibility she would run into his mistress at a real estate conference the next day; and her failure to bear him a son.

Mr Byrne said the drugs in Ms Baden-Clay’s system would peak in her blood stream and be absorbed by 4am. He said it was possible, with an increased dose that she experienced disorientation brought on by “serotonin syndrome” or perhaps just the greater than usual aberrant side-effects of Zoloft.

“And some time, for some reason, she ends up in the river,” he said. “The autopsy report can’t rule out drowning, it can’t rule out a possible fall, a jump from the bridge which could have rendered her unconscious, and either drowning or dying in the river.”

He told the jury it was a scenario they might reject, but it was one which they might think was open to them on the evidence

http://www.news.com.au/national/day...-allison-in-2012/story-e6frfkp9-1226981009062

 

[alioop]

Sorry if this has already been asked and answered but if GBC is found guilty, can he appeal? How long would he have to appeal? Also if found not guilty (God forbid!) can the prosecution also appeal?

Yes both sides can appeal. However in practice if there is an acquittal, the prosecution is unlikely to appeal. Convicted murderers usually do appeal but they are usually not successful.

 

[Susan12]

David Murray ‏@TheMurrayD 51s
At 4am medication would peak. Maybe that increased dose, serotonin syndrome - defence #badenclay

Caroline Overington ‏@overingtonc 57s
What if she's becoming confused? She walks further than normal #badenclay
What if she decides up talk a Zoloft for her depression? #badenclay

Sarah Elks ‏@sarahelks 1m
Defence suggests Allison changes into her walking clothes, goes for a walk. Is she in some form of "disorientation"? #badenclay

Oh FFS I know that route. You'd be killed on the road if you tried to walk it while disorientated. If you weren't killed someone would at least see you and remember to tell the police when the next day it was all over the news a woman was missing. If you even got to that road from her house. There is far more doubt on this theory than the prosecution's!

 

[JK673]

Not bothering to add in the headline on tonight's report...

July 08, 2014

Defence barrister Michael Byrne QC in his closing address to the Supreme Court in Brisbane put to the jury that the Brookfield mother-of-three first took a 100mg tablet of the antidepressant Zoloft before leaving the house in her walking clothes.

He said Ms Baden-Clay might have decided to walk out into the night, further than usual, against a background of mental turmoil over her husband’s long-running affair, which they had discussed in detail the previous two nights; the possibility she would run into his mistress at a real estate conference the next day; and her failure to bear him a son.

Mr Byrne said the drugs in Ms Baden-Clay’s system would peak in her blood stream and be absorbed by 4am. He said it was possible, with an increased dose that she experienced disorientation brought on by “serotonin syndrome” or perhaps just the greater than usual aberrant side-effects of Zoloft.

“And some time, for some reason, she ends up in the river,” he said. “The autopsy report can’t rule out drowning, it can’t rule out a possible fall, a jump from the bridge which could have rendered her unconscious, and either drowning or dying in the river.”

He told the jury it was a scenario they might reject, but it was one which they might think was open to them on the evidence

http://www.news.com.au/national/day...-allison-in-2012/story-e6frfkp9-1226981009062

Yes - the headline is disgusting! http://www.couriermail.com.au/ This headline - the one on the actual report is tamer....

 

[alioop]

Marly, I think there is a glitch in the matrix!

 

[Fly]

Alioop, what is the process once the jury retires? I know you've discussed for the jury members, but I mean for everyone waiting. Does everyone just hang around in case they come back? (Just wondering about media and family etc...) do the judge/prosecution/defence get notified of the verdict before it is read out? TIA