The Doe Network: Part 1: Who is Princess Blue?

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Ok, nobody slap me, :slap: but I just thought of BIG zebra! What if Princess Blue had NO ties to Lee High because she FOUND the ring. I think this would be the WORST case scenario! :eek:

It would, but if she found it maybe we can help find the ring's owner and if we know where it was lost, maybe we can get some info as to where Princess Blue was - whether she was living in the area or was just dumped where her body was found.
 
Wow, icepickphil, thanks for writing, and welcome. We look forward to solving this case.

:eek: 300? that is a LOT of typing/research. We'll "get'erdone"! Not to worry. I hope they don't mind us contacting them again. I wonder if LE only sent the alums from classmates.com an email? hmmmm.....


MG
 
Ok, everyone please forgive me for not being around for the past couple days. I've been really busy. I'm in the process of writing out a basic description of PB to put in the "About Me" section on her MySpace.

Lion, I like the known facts list you have on the other board. If you don't mind, I'd like to copy/paste it into a blog entry on PB's myspace.
 
Ok, nobody slap me, :slap: but I just thought of BIG zebra! What if Princess Blue had NO ties to Lee High because she FOUND the ring. I think this would be the WORST case scenario! :eek:

Hi Sadie:). I think this is a zebra, too. But, even if she did take it or it was stolen by some guy who gave it to her, someone was missing that ring. And, that person might remember approximately when and under what conditions it disappeared. That itself could be a clue. It's thin; but, it is possible. Have you posted it with our list of zebras? Thank you for making that list, Sadie:). Bedangit! We work well as a team.

Princess Blue's remains as well as the ring were out in the elements for perhaps 6 months to a year. So that may account in part for the ring being worn. however, if you look at the ring it looks like someone wore it for a long time. It is evenly worn, and well worn. HW graduates back then and it seems today didn't usually wear their HS rings beyond the first year of their graduation, perhaps because they no longer wanted/want to be associated with a high school age range.

My idea could be sideways; but, if that is true, then the ring was more likely worn for a considerable period of time by Princess. MrsG and I were thinking that in order for her to have worn that ring (and possibly had it re-sized twice), despite that it was an HS 1975 ring in 1989 or 1990, it was likely given to her by someone close to her.

I am thinking that she didn't go missing from Manvel or anywhere in Brazoria County. This is far from fact; but, it is logical. She may have gone missing from a surrounding county, and the info was not shared with Brazoria and other counties. Even today cases are sometimes not shared between counties; but, back then it may have been even more common.

Is there a central list of missing for each state? Or do we refer to each state's missing persons clearinghouse? I have a feeling she may have been reported missing--from somewhere.

But, there is a connection. That ring came from Princess Blue's body and whoever originally owned it went to school in that area, just North, in Houston. We need to find that connection. The YB is not here yet, so maybe we can brainstorm on theories and what to research next.

Are there news archives we can check for newspapers in 1990 to see if there was anything written about her that we have not yet seen, for example?

Welcome icepickphil. We are very glad to have you. We have questions about your old HS from time to time, and if we can pick your brain that would be great. thank you so much for coming here and offering to help. Even letting us know what your school colors was helpful BTW, how ever did you choose your hat? Do you like scary movies of the Freddy kind lol?
I have heard no word back from LE, yet. I will try again tomorrow. I was hoping for better communication; but, I imagine the Sgt has other, equally important cases to work. Patients is key and persistence pays.

Lion
 
Ok, everyone please forgive me for not being around for the past couple days. I've been really busy. I'm in the process of writing out a basic description of PB to put in the "About Me" section on her MySpace.

Lion, I like the known facts list you have on the other board. If you don't mind, I'd like to copy/paste it into a blog entry on PB's myspace.

Hi there Sable:). It is good to see you. Feel free to copy and paste to myspace. I see Princess has made many friends in a matter of days. I know some are our members here; but, not all of them. I am, "s" BTW. I accidentally pressed s and so I am s :yikes:.

Lion
 
It's good to see you too. And don't worry, you can change your display name. :] When you sign into MySpace, there's a link you can click on that says "Edit Profile". Click on that, and it should take you to the page to edit your profile on. There's a row of links to choose what part of your profile to edit. Click on "Name" and from there you can change your display name from "s" to whatever you would rather it be.
 
I thought I posted this earlier, but I don't see it. I guess it didn't post.

I've updated the "About Me" section on PB's MySpace page. I gave some information about her, and added a link to someoneknowsme.com
Also, there's a new blog entry. I posted the list of known facts that Lion compiled on the other board.

If anyone thinks I should change or add something to PB's MySpace, let me know.
 
I thought I posted this earlier, but I don't see it. I guess it didn't post.

I've updated the "About Me" section on PB's MySpace page. I gave some information about her, and added a link to someoneknowsme.com
Also, there's a new blog entry. I posted the list of known facts that Lion compiled on the other board.

If anyone thinks I should change or add something to PB's MySpace, let me know.

Thank you Sable. I can change my name. I have had some of the strangest kind of people asking if they could be added as a friend. I am wondering if some think that, "s" might be short for s & m :yikes:!

I am on my way to myspace to check it out.

Lion
 
I thought I posted this earlier, but I don't see it. I guess it didn't post.

I've updated the "About Me" section on PB's MySpace page. I gave some information about her, and added a link to someoneknowsme.com
Also, there's a new blog entry. I posted the list of known facts that Lion compiled on the other board.

If anyone thinks I should change or add something to PB's MySpace, let me know.

Sable, BTW, I love your new siggy! How kind and thoughtful:blowkiss: .

Lion
 
I think I may have found one of the missing alumni...
Out of respect for privacy, I'm not posting the street name.

FREEMAN DENISE M
2910 ********* LN
KATY, TX 77449-1508


PM me and let me know if you would like the name of the street.

ETA: This might not be the right Denise Freeman. I believe I may have found this Denise on MySpace: http://profile.myspace.com/index.cfm?fuseaction=user.viewprofile&friendID=110782354
Her age is listed as 29.
 
Good morning sleuthers:)! I compiled then posted this, which contains facts and some noted speculations on someoneknowsme.com. I noted that we have hundreds of posts here, so I thought it might be useful to post it here for your convenience. Have a fantabulous day everyone!



Known Facts About The case of Princess Blue With Noted Speculations

We at Websleuths, an online sleuthing community, decided to call this unidentified girl or young woman, Princess Blue. Although, all facts in this case may help to identify her, her jewelry, particularly, a Robert E. Lee High School ring from the class of 1975 may prove crucial in solving this.
Importantly, Princess Blue would have been about 1 to 6 years old in 1975. Thus, she was too young for that ring to have been hers. Instead the ring may have originally belonged to a family member. The ring, which will be described in depth, has a blue stone--hence her name, Princess Blue. We have grown to care deeply for her and want more than anything to give her back to her family.
Please note that this contains known facts about this case at the time this was written on 4/6/07. We may post additional facts as they come to light.
There may be some speculations, possible theories, or opinions included; however, they will be evident by the terms used to describe them, such as, “possibly”, “ it may have been”, “give or take”, or, “we think.”, etc..

Date and place found, and condition of remains

Princess Blue’s skeletal remains were found at a known dump site off a county road in Manvel, Texas, on September 10th, 1990. Manvel, Texas is located just south of Houston in Brazoria County. Her estimated time of death was from between 6 months to 1 year prior to her being discovered. Therefore, she may have died somewhere between September 1989 and March of 1990, give or take.

Physical Description

Princess Doe is believed to have been white/Hispanic and was estimated to be between 4’ 10” and 5’ 2” tall, weighing approximately 175 LBS.
She may have had a tumor on her knee. We are currently trying to find out which knee, and if it is possible that the anomaly could have resulted from an injury, disease, or previous surgery.

Dentals & DNA

Dentals are available
DNA is on file with CODIS

Toxicology

There were no traces of drugs found in her bone marrow.
Based on minimal research and memory recall this does not necessarily mean that there were no drugs in her system at the time of death. Alcohol, for example would long since have been degraded/devoured by microorganisms. And, depending on the condition of the marrow at testing, it may or may not have yielded accurate results. I am not stating that I think there may have been drugs in Princess Blue’s system at her TOD. I just do not want to rule out the possibility, especially in the case of someone looking for their missing family member who was known to use drugs or alcohol.

Jewelry

Rings

1 Robert E. Lee High School, Houston, TX ladies 1975 class ring (front and side view pics available)
Princess Blue was found with a 1975 Robert E. Lee High School, Houston, TX ladies class ring on her skeletonized finger. It is a classic style silver banded ladies ring with one blue (sapphire), faceted stone in the center. It is a 9 ½ and has been resized twice. We do not know if it was up-sized or down-sized.

She was also wearing:

1 gold band with 6 clear stones
1 distinct silver ring with a silver unicorn inlaid with turquoise (pic available)
1 thin silver band with a scroll design (pic available)
2 thin silver bands (no further description)

Bracelet

1 pearl beaded bracelet

Links to learn more and/or get involved in helping to solve Princess Blue’s case

http://www.websleuths.com/forums/showthread.php?p=1413554&posted=1#post1413554

http://uidprincessblue.proboards80.com/

http://www.myspace.com/uidprincessblue

http://someoneknowsme.com/upload/index.php

Investigators

Manvel Police Sergeant Jay Coffman at 281-489-1212 or e-mail

jcoffman@manvelpd.org.

Harris County Medical Examiner 713-796-9292

Texas Missing Persons Clearinghouse 800-346-3243 Note: You may remain anonymous when submitting information.

Agency Case Number: U0310014

NCIC Number: U-940003426

Please refer to thie above numbers when contacting any agency with information regarding this case
 
I notice in the article "Ring Is Top Clue In Cold Case" that Jay Coffman (LE) was working with a Richard Rosser, an investigator with the Brazoria County Sheriff's Department. My questions are, if Richard Rosser is still working in LE has anyone here tried to contact him in regards to Princess Blue? If not, do you think he should be?

What are your opinions on this?

Thanks!
RKnowley
 
Hi RKnowley:). Yes, I am trying to reach Det. Rosser. I will let you know as soon as I hear something. I am determined to try and reach one or both.

I updated the info on Tonya, a 1975 grad that you found the contact info for. I think it may be the right person. Good job!

Can we research marriage certs somehow, at no charge? We may need to because many if not most of the women grads married and changed their names. Some may not have ever married, and some may have divorced and changed their names back; but, a bunch might have different names. Please send a link or describe it if you have a way to do it. Thanks much, friend.

Lion
 
Trying to post this again. It wouldn't let me earlier:

Hi Lion. Thank you so much for all you are doing with contacting LE, contacting alumni, etc. I appreciate it and I know others do also.

You can try this link http://www.genlookups.com/texas_marriages/ for Texas marriages, also from there you can research Texas Divorces. Not sure if they have births now or not...hmmm. The marriage and the divorce records are just indexes but hey at this time anything helps. We both know that the alumni may have moved to another state than Texas but why not start with the last place we knew they were and go from there unless we have clues that lead us elsewhere.

Again, keep up the good work! Thank you.

Hi RKnowley:). Yes, I am trying to reach Det. Rosser. I will let you know as soon as I hear something. I am determined to try and reach one or both.

I updated the info on Tonya, a 1975 grad that you found the contact info for. I think it may be the right person. Good job!

Can we research marriage certs somehow, at no charge? We may need to because many if not most of the women grads married and changed their names. Some may not have ever married, and some may have divorced and changed their names back; but, a bunch might have different names. Please send a link or describe it if you have a way to do it. Thanks much, friend.

Lion

Hi RKnowley:). Yes, I am trying to reach Det. Rosser. I will let you know as soon as I hear something. I am determined to try and reach one or both.

I updated the info on Tonya, a 1975 grad that you found the contact info for. I think it may be the right person. Good job!

Can we research marriage certs somehow, at no charge? We may need to because many if not most of the women grads married and changed their names. Some may not have ever married, and some may have divorced and changed their names back; but, a bunch might have different names. Please send a link or describe it if you have a way to do it. Thanks much, friend.

Lion
 
Hi all--I have been lurking for awhile but would love to contribute in some small way. I do have a couple of questions though...

Is there any chance that the ME got the age wrong and our Princess Blue is actually the owner of the ring, and thus a real alumni of REL? Maybe she was short? If she was really 175 Lbs at age 13-15, then she would have been larger than most girls her age, making her distinctive/memorable. If she truly was the actual owner of the ring, she would have been about 33. I wonder how the ME determined her age, just by her size? What if they are wrong about her time of death and she was younger when killed?

Also, what is a zebra and a horse?

I researched the monthes that use a blue birthstone. I design jewelry, and the stone looks dark blue, thus sapphire(Sept birthstone), but if it is in fact lighter than I think, it could be March (aquamarine) or December (zircon/turquoise/light sapphire). What fingers were the other rings on? Could one have been a wedding band?

Also, FWIW, when I got my class ring, I got red for the stone, which was both my mother and fathers birthstones. I did not get my own birthstone.
 
Hi all--I have been lurking for awhile but would love to contribute in some small way. I do have a couple of questions though...

Is there any chance that the ME got the age wrong and our Princess Blue is actually the owner of the ring, and thus a real alumni of REL? Maybe she was short? If she was really 175 Lbs at age 13-15, then she would have been larger than most girls her age, making her distinctive/memorable. If she truly was the actual owner of the ring, she would have been about 33. I wonder how the ME determined her age, just by her size? What if they are wrong about her time of death and she was younger when killed?

Also, what is a zebra and a horse?

I researched the monthes that use a blue birthstone. I design jewelry, and the stone looks dark blue, thus sapphire(Sept birthstone), but if it is in fact lighter than I think, it could be March (aquamarine) or December (zircon/turquoise/light sapphire). What fingers were the other rings on? Could one have been a wedding band?

Also, FWIW, when I got my class ring, I got red for the stone, which was both my mother and fathers birthstones. I did not get my own birthstone.

Good point about the birthstone. We kinda decided it could be the owner's birthstone or even the owner's favorite color, too.

LE does age dating by determining the lengths of various bones, the amount of fusion in a skull (fully fused at 40), the rib ends, and the length of the tendon connectors with respect to age. For example, the length of the femur and the developent of the ends of the bones can be used to estimate or determine age.
Also used are dental remains to determine how many molars and/or wisdom teeth there are, as well as dental wear and dental work.
I believe that most LE use radiocarbon dating and bone marrow (if any) to determine the age of the person deceased. The amount of radioactive materials can be dated according to half-life, thus determining the approximate age of human remains.

Guys correct me if I am wrong, please. I pulled that answer off the top of my head.
MG
 
Trying to post this again. It wouldn't let me earlier:

Hi Lion. Thank you so much for all you are doing with contacting LE, contacting alumni, etc. I appreciate it and I know others do also.

You can try this link http://www.genlookups.com/texas_marriages/ for Texas marriages, also from there you can research Texas Divorces. Not sure if they have births now or not...hmmm. The marriage and the divorce records are just indexes but hey at this time anything helps. We both know that the alumni may have moved to another state than Texas but why not start with the last place we knew they were and go from there unless we have clues that lead us elsewhere.

Again, keep up the good work! Thank you.

Thanks RKnowley:). I checked out the link, and I think it may be helpful in finding our grads' womens' married names.

Lion
 
Hi all--I have been lurking for awhile but would love to contribute in some small way. I do have a couple of questions though...

Is there any chance that the ME got the age wrong and our Princess Blue is actually the owner of the ring, and thus a real alumni of REL? Maybe she was short? If she was really 175 Lbs at age 13-15, then she would have been larger than most girls her age, making her distinctive/memorable. If she truly was the actual owner of the ring, she would have been about 33. I wonder how the ME determined her age, just by her size? What if they are wrong about her time of death and she was younger when killed?

Also, what is a zebra and a horse?

I researched the months that use a blue birthstone. I design jewelry, and the stone looks dark blue, thus sapphire(Sept birthstone), but if it is in fact lighter than I think, it could be March (aquamarine) or December (zircon/turquoise/light sapphire). What fingers were the other rings on? Could one have been a wedding band?

Also, FWIW, when I got my class ring, I got red for the stone, which was both my mother and fathers birthstones. I did not get my own birthstone.

Welcome Julessleuther:). I think you have very good questions and points.

I think it is remotely possible unless we obtain fully conflicting facts to the contrary concerning Princess Blue's age and whether or not she was a 1975 grad. This would not be due to the age at TOD estimate, however. Please see link on forensic anthropology.

http://www.anthro4n6.net/forensics/

Instead, I believe it is possible--one very thin zebra, I might add, that Princess Blue was killed some time in 1975 or after, was frozen(deep freeze) shortly after death, then dumped 6 mo. to one yr. prior to being discovered. Damaging ice crystals (upon freezing) can be noted in soft tissue; but, I need to research if the same occurs in bone. If there is no way forensically to tell if bones had been previously frozen via damage from ice crystals, then it is possible that she died in between about 1975 and 1990. I will research this as a possibility and update if I find anything.

In the medical field when doctors are looking for an underlying condition/illness or the cause of serious symptoms they have referred to horses as common(more likely), and zebras(less likely) as uncommon.

For example, if someone is hospitalized with a high fever, vomiting, and severe pain on the lower right side of the abdomen that is worse when the pressure is taken off the abdomen than when pressure is first applied, the horse is an appendicitis--Common.

The zebra for that might be a tumor in the upper left quadrant of the abdomen that produced its own hormones causing nausea/vomiting and referred pain to the lower right side--Uncommon, but possible.

It is often best to check out the horses first because it is more likely to be a horse, unless the clues have such defined stripes that it screams, "zebra." I now refer to zebras and horses concerning our cases because it is straightforward and makes our theories easier to organize and work on.

According to a representative at The Texas Missing Persons Clearinghouse, whom I spoke with a few days ago, a forensic anthropologist was brought in to determine Princesses' age and weight. This valuable and fairly accurate info was used along with the ring size 9 1/2, and the two came up the same. In other words Princess Blue's weight as determined by her bone structure, density, articulating surfaces, tendon articulating points, etc.. showed her to be about 175 at TOD, just as the ring would in general fit someone of that weight. However, I asked the same question you asked because of the the statement made in one of the reports stating that the ring would have fit someone weighing 175. I needed more than that, as that explanation was insufficient to me, too.

I doubt they got the age at TOD wrong. Her bones were studied by a forensic anthropologist. But, if my wild zebra that she was frozen right after death is correct than had she lived until 1990, she would have been between 15 and 30. Hmm. Got to do that research and put in the list of zebras if need be.

And, it seems several people now have said that instead of choosing their birthstone, they chose a stone they liked for what ever reason. This is good because we cannot rule out any birthday, and we know this now. But, if someone is missing who fits the description in other ways who was born in September, that I would check out real quick. The photo of the ring is pretty dark, and it could be something other than a sapphire. But, to me it looks like a sapphire. She was wearing 2 thin, silver bands, and it is a good question as to whether or not one are both were actually her wedding band(s). Another open question.

Hey MrsG:). If you said all of that off the top of your head you have one good memory. Check out the link I found that is posted above.

Lion
 
Geez, I feel like a dim bulb reading everyone elses posts. You are one bright bunch!

Oh no! Teonspaleprincess, You are very bright and have some extremely valuable talents for sure! You my dear are one of the main catalyst for our new group here. And that's the beauty of our group...we can learn from each other. Our combined talents and knowledge make us extremely dangerous to criminals. :D


jmo
 
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