The GB4 and Shannan Gilbert-Connecting the dots

[waltzingmatilda]

Maureen Brainard-Barnes: Last trace was the phone call from the bus terminal
Melissa Barthelmy: Last seen in the Bronx
Megan Waterman: She is the only one who was really last seen on Long Island
Amber Costello: Last seen leaving North Babylon, but her bf/pimp says, she wanted to go to LI.
The point is, all four of them had also business in Manhattan. Not the nights they disappeared maybe, but in general over the time. IF the killer is a sexual sadist ... which is exactly the problem. Sexual sadists come in all colors and shapes. Generally, the higher the degree of organization, the longer they stalk. This guy is organized. And the internet theory has one slight advantage: Most sadists covet by seeing.

~respectfully BBM~

I agree with you on this PB. This reminds me of Dr. Lector asking Clarice Starling (in Silence of the Lambs) ......and what to we covet, Clarice?

Clarice: We covet what we see everyday. (paraphrased, most likely:crazy

This leads me to another train of thought. MBB didn't do outcalls, ALC didn't do outcalls, Megan's bf Akeem Cruz usually stayed with her but didn't the night she disappeared from the Holiday Inn in Hauppauge, and Melissa worked at a Salon when she first moved to NY which her mother Lynn thinks may have been a cover for her pimp.

It appears to me that the GB4 all had a 'base of operations'. Even MW, as I recall reading (I think it was Newsday which I cannot access) that she and Akeem Cruz would travel from Maine to NY and stay at the HI because he had relatives in the area that he would visit while in NY. Does anyone recall this article?

So, my thought process is that perhaps the killer had an initial incall date with these ladies at their home base. Therefore, he had a starting point from whence to do his stalking, learn their habits, etc. And of course he could stalk them on CL and other escort sites as the girls posted dates and locations of where they would be working.

Now, I am led to another thought. (It is kind of like watching 'National Treasure' where one clue leads to another and I wanna begin taking shots for everytime I hear, "It's just another clue, LOL!) Here it is....

The GB4 all 'seemed' to have a 'home base' in NY/LI but I am not sure about Melissa and Megan. Do we know if there is something more concrete in msm than what I am inferring from info on the below link as it is a bit vague? I know Melissa must have done outcalls at one time, or the article infers that, IMO. She was robbed by a john one night while walking home.

What is the difference here between the GB4 and SG? SG did regular outcalls! Didn't SG's sis state that MP had been SG's driver for months and that she trusted him?

I am trying to glean as much information as I can process from these articles.:banghead:

http://nymag.com/news/features/long-island-serial-killer-families-2011-6/index2.html



wm

MOO

 

[waltzingmatilda]

Agreed. But we were able to find only 7 ads posted for Megan, and out of the 7 random ads we could find, all but one were for Suffolk County. The other was from ME.

May 13, 2009: Suffolk
June 16, 2009: Suffolk
June 23, 2009: Suffolk
September 2, 2009: Suffolk
May 31, 2010: Portland
June 6, 2010: Suffolk

If this was just a random sampling of what ads we could find for her, how come nothing popped up from anywhere else? Backpage doesn't take down their ads...so where are the ones listed for NYC, if they exist? See what I'm saying?

I just think we're making a mistake if we assume that all these girls worked in Manhattan. Maybe they did, maybe they didn't. But they ALL have ties to Long Island. That much is obvious, and verifiable.

Megan only worked out of hotels, and didn't do out calls (according to those who knew her).
Maureen only worked out of hotels and didn't do out calls (according to those who knew her).
So, in the case of these two girls at least, I'm inclined to believe that they didn't book rooms and then go hopping around meeting clients all over NY. The clients came to them.

JMO

MK, Thanks so much for this info! Didn't ALC also work out of her house in Babylon?

wm

 

[Mountain_Kat]

MK, Thanks so much for this info! Didn't ALC also work out of her house in Babylon?

wm

For awhile. But she and Italia also travelled alot (FL. SC. I forget where else), though I think this was earlier. My impression is that Italia started to taper off to just a few calls here and there, but Amber had a bundle a day heroin addiction. She HAD to keep working. But at that point, I think it was primarily incalls at the house. That's just my impression, though.

But it's funny you brought up the incall thing, because I was just about to type out some thoughts about that in a pm, but decided to post them on forum instead.

Megan usually booked a hotel room and did incalls only, with Cruz in the adjacent room in case anything went awry. The night she went missing, Cruz is no where to be found. Why? Did he know that Megan was going to do an outcall for big money, and so there was no reason for him to be there? Is THAT why he was less than cooperative with LE?

According to the statement's of Maureen's sister, Maureen only worked in Manhattan and only did incalls because she knew hotels had camera's. At some point on the evening of the 9th, she called friends asking for a ride home. The rest of Maureen's story from that point on is unclear. Another friend quoted in one of the articles stated that Maureen was a talker who was always on the phone. So, is it possible she called one friend to tell them she had been robbed, another to say that she was at PABT, and yet other friends asking for a ride home? Is THIS the reason why were all having touble piecing together her story...because we're assuming this was all one call? All from PABT? I don't know. But I don't believe for a minute that Maureen would take a car date with a complete stranger. I just don't. So maybe, just maybe, she also had a rare outcall with a client set up, and we just can't see that because the facts are so convoluted surrounding her that we can't get from point A to point B. See what I'm saying?

Now, DS makes mention of the fact that Amber once took a car date and ended up dumped on the side of the road bleeding. Surely, that would make Amber at least ALITTLE paranoid about who she took a car date from (if she even did them at all after that). And we know that Amber, her boyfriend and Schaller normally had a safety routine even when it came to the incalls she did. And yet, Amber walks out of the house for an outcall promising big money, despite all that.

So I'm wondering this...if some of these girls usually did incalls and usually had rooms, why did they agree to an outcall (forget the money for a minute). Let's say this client was interested in finding an overnight girl for a party. He couldn't have brought the party to them, now could he? They would have to go to the party. And that would be big money.

And is that what was also going on at Brewer's house the night SG went missing? I honestly don't know. I would THINK police would have discovered a "party", but then, I'm not convinced LE even looked in Brewer's house that night. Or even asked if anyone else was there. Maybe they did, maybe the didn't. I don't know. But nothing would shock me at this point.

Just some thoughts. And ones I haven't really had time to think through. But I'm tossing them out here anyway.

ETA: Also interesting to ponder along these lines is Melissa's boyfriend's comments about Melissa being friendly with an older guy in Long Island, and that she some times brought a friend along to visit him.

 

[Redbird]

I thought I would mention something the GB4 had in common besides advertising on Craig's List or Backpage. Three of them, plus Shannan, had arrest records.

In December 2009, Costello was arrested on suspicion of shoplifting a few items, including toothpaste, from a Pinellas Park Publix supermarket, police records show. She told police she was an assistant at the Clearwater Library, but the city doesn't have any record of her employment. There's still an active warrant for her arrest because she failed to show up for court on the petty theft charge.
http://www.tampabay.com/news/public...d-dead-in-new-york-could-be-victim-of/1148049
Friday, January 28, 2011

Brainard-Barnes was arrested by Connecticut state police in 2002 on a charge of fourth-degree larceny. She pleaded guilty in 2004 in New London Superior Court and paid a $485 fine, according to court records.
Read more: DA: Norwich woman likely a victim of serial killer - Norwich, CT - The Bulletin http://www.norwichbulletin.com/caro...ikely-a-victim-of-serial-killer#ixzz1LV76iGhg

8/14 at 2:44 p.m. Megan Waterman, 21, of Scarborough, was arrested by Officer Frank Gorham on a charge of theft.
Aug 18, 2009 12:40 pm from The Forecaster
http://www.theforecaster.net/content/p-pox-33

Gilbert was indicted in April 2010 for conspiracy to promote prostitution for a incident in Hoboken in June 2009, Hudson County Prosecutor, Edward DeFazio said yesterday.

According to Hoboken arrest records, Shannon Gilbert, 22, Jersey City, and Elpidio Evangelista, 42, Jersey City, were arrested at 300 Sinatra Drive on Tuesday, June 23 and charged with promoting prostitution, conspiracy, and manufacturing, distributing, or dispensing a controlled dangerous substance.

Gilbert’s employer was listed in the arrest log as Lace Party Girls and her alias as “Sabrina.” Both were released on a summons.
37 years old
Read more: Hudson Reporter - Police Beat Compiled by Timothy J Carroll 6 28 09
http://www.hudsonreporter.com/pages/... &id=2810773
#439 page 18 5th thread

This has made me think of the possibility of a stalker who could have had connections to criminal records, giving him more information about the victims. I think it is possible he may have dated them, then stalked them.

With his work background, would CPH have had easy access to criminal records?

Everyone has a right to their own opinion and it is mine that CPH is a likely suspect. He always seems to be the elephant in the room. That's why I think people suspect him. Aspects of his history, personality, life keep popping up over and over as possible pieces to this puzzle. We have not found this with any other person in this cast of characters.

 

[Redbird]

I have also found one for Melissa:

According to the Manhattan district attorney's office, Barthelemy was arrested on Sept. 12, 2008, at Sixth Avenue and West 46th Street on suspicion of prostitution. In April 2009, she pleaded guilty to attempted prostitution, a misdemeanor, and was sentenced to five days of community service.

http://www.newsday.com/long-island/faces-of-the-gilgo-beach-victims-1.2633910?qr=1

 

[Peter Brendt]

Maureen Brainard Barnes: cell phone pinged from a LI cell tower at least 6 months after she disappeared.
Melissa Barthelemy: cell phone pinged from a tower in Massapequa (which is on LI).
Amber Lynn Costello lived in North Babylon, which is in Long Island.
Megan Waterman disappeared from a hotel in Hauppague...which is also LI.

To me, the Long Island connection is blaringly obvious.

I have never seen a single report that would indicate to me that Megan ever worked in Manhattan. I've never seen a single report that would indicate to me that Amber worked in Manhatta. Is it possible that they did? I guess. But I've never seen any evidence to support that.

Maureens phone was pinged from a LI cell tower SIX MONTHS after she disappeared ...
Melissa Barthelmy's cell phone was pinged in Massapequa how long after she disappeared ... Which according to Google Maps is as far to Hempstead than to LI
Fine North Babylon is Long Island ... which is formally surely correct, aside of the fact, that most seasonal inhabitants of LI are New Yorkers, which is also true for Hauppauge.

If this all blaringly obvious, then feel free to search the killer on LI. I mean, okay, all serial killers have a tendency to drop bodies where they are NOT at home, but hey, you have a theory, go and prove it. We will anyway know only, after LE gets the guy ... provided we don't die of old age before.

 

[NJGuy]

Maureens phone was pinged from a LI cell tower SIX MONTHS after she disappeared ...
Melissa Barthelmy's cell phone was pinged in Massapequa how long after she disappeared ... Which according to Google Maps is as far to Hempstead than to LI
Fine North Babylon is Long Island ... which is formally surely correct, aside of the fact, that most seasonal inhabitants of LI are New Yorkers, which is also true for Hauppauge.

If this all blaringly obvious, then feel free to search the killer on LI. I mean, okay, all serial killers have a tendency to drop bodies where they are NOT at home, but hey, you have a theory, go and prove it. We will anyway know only, after LE gets the guy ... provided we don't die of old age before.

Peter, I don't know if anyone is suggesting that the SK has to, must live on LI. It is certainly within the realm of possibility that he may live in Manhattan, NJ, or Jupiter for all I know. But what cannot be dismissed, is the commonality amongst the victims aside from their discovery locations. The connection to LI is clear, whether it be the SK lives, lived at one time, or visits, something about LI is familiar and comforting to him

 

[Peter Brendt]

Peter, I don't know if anyone is suggesting that the SK has to, must live on LI. It is certainly within the realm of possibility that he may live in Manhattan, NJ, or Jupiter for all I know. But what cannot be dismissed, is the commonality amongst the victims aside from their discovery locations. The connection to LI is clear, whether it be the SK lives, lived at one time, or visits, something about LI is familiar and comforting to him

I never denied that. And of course, the dump site is a connection, but is it the connection helping to find the SK? He is, to a degree at least, famliar with some places on LI, especially the Gilgo Beach area. That means, he is familiar with the geography and the traffic of the place. Nothing more is needed for a dump site in the first place.

 

[Redbird]

It has been stated from the beginning by LE and other credentialed experts on serial killers that it is quite possible, even likely, that the SK lives on LI and that evidence shows he has a through knowledge of the area. I am not an expert at all, am only fascinated with serial killers, and from the true crime book I have read, I know that many serial killers kill within a comfort zone not far from where they live. I personally have to wonder why anyone would argue otherwise. Why so much anger with some posters? The tone seems more appropriate for the LISK site than Websleuths.

 

[Peter Brendt]

Here is one thing, that doesn't go out of my head: For most SKs, the first murder has a special meaning and therefore it is often the one, that gives the hints to crack the case the easiest way. The weird thing in that thought is, that in a number of cases, later, after the killer was caught, it wasn't really the first case, but the first one on the way to establish signature. If someone remembers the Ted Bundy case, the first victim, police knew of was someone, he knew from sight. Or, in the Albright case, it was a prostitute who messed with him in a little thing about stolen goods. Or in the Hillside Strangler case, another prostitute who sold them the faked client list. Only very rarely, SKs went in the past for victims, they couldn't see in person. Later in their career, things may change, but the first kill for most typologies of SKs is killing someone they could see.
This would place the Maureen Brainard-Barnes case in the key position. She was the first, the one, he dropped their first, the one, he established this burlap wrapping and so on. Unless of course, someone can find earlier wrapped bodies in groups somewhere in the US. Doesn't need to be burlap though.

 

[Peter Brendt]

It has been stated from the beginning by LE and other credentialed experts on serial killers that it is quite possible, even likely, that the SK lives on LI and that evidence shows he has a through knowledge of the area. I am not an expert at all, am only fascinated with serial killers, and from the true crime book I have read, I know that many serial killers kill within a comfort zone not far from where they live. I personally have to wonder why anyone would argue otherwise. Why so much anger with some posters? The tone seems more appropriate for the LISK site than Websleuths.

True about the tone

otherwise ... I did a little research about SKs (I wrote my first novel about an SK in 2005 and studied real cases already a decade longer, even I came originally from historical profiling).
Why would someone mess with "established experts". There are two arguments. The first one is the mathematical/statistical argument: Those established experts need average 12-15 years to catch an SK after they have the first bodies. Most serial killer cases in the last 30 years were solved either by accident or by amateurs sleuthing around. The amateurs have around the world in the last 30 years a success quota 4 times higher than LE including those "experts". And in some cases (for example Gacy), they had really to lay down the SK at the police's doorsteps to make clear, there was an SK around, because LE has often an attitude of denial.
The second thing is, that "established experts" were the ones painting certain cliches. The white loner in his late twenties for example. This type exists, no doubt about that. However, most caught SKs are totally different. Bundy was a real womenizer, charming, intelligent and socially successful. Robert Hansen stuttered, that was true, but he also ran his own bakery which was more of a company than just a little one man shop. He was also member in some clubs. Albright had a circle of friends, that forced LE after his arrest to put about twenty officers on the job to get backgrounds for them. Quite a number.
In this business, someone counts already as expert if he was one time lucky. So I wouldn't over-estimate the level expert. But that is only my personal opinion.

Comfortzones ... yeah, that's a nice word. Lets look at it's meaning. It means a room, a space and an area, in which the SK is comfortable enough to kill there. In fact, most SKs have such comfortzones and also in fact, they are not, where he lives. Ted Bundy's dumping sites were between 70 and 120 miles away from the place he lived at the time. He never killed, where he dumped bodies except for the last few cases (the Sigma Chi murders), which was already in his spiraling phase.
Robert Hanson had his kill zone out in the wilderness of Alaska and dared to leave the bodies there. Now, what looks in written form as one comfortzone spread in fact over an area of about 90 square miles. The reason was, his real comfortzone was his plane, the kill sites were rather places he knew, he could land, have some fun and drop a body.
To add a historic case to the list: The london Torso II, a contemporary of Jack the Ripper, dropped body parts all over London including Rainham. One could of course claim, London (including New Scotland Yard's construction site) was his comfortzone. But in fact, his comfortzone was a place, that was never discovered, the place where he held his victims and cut them to pieces.

 

[Mountain_Kat]

It has been stated from the beginning by LE and other credentialed experts on serial killers that it is quite possible, even likely, that the SK lives on LI and that evidence shows he has a through knowledge of the area. I am not an expert at all, am only fascinated with serial killers, and from the true crime book I have read, I know that many serial killers kill within a comfort zone not far from where they live. I personally have to wonder why anyone would argue otherwise. Why so much anger with some posters? The tone seems more appropriate for the LISK site than Websleuths.

And I agree with them.

You can tell them I said so, too. :floorlaugh:

 

[waltzingmatilda]

For awhile. But she and Italia also travelled alot (FL. SC. I forget where else), though I think this was earlier. My impression is that Italia started to taper off to just a few calls here and there, but Amber had a bundle a day heroin addiction. She HAD to keep working. But at that point, I think it was primarily incalls at the house. That's just my impression, though.

But it's funny you brought up the incall thing, because I was just about to type out some thoughts about that in a pm, but decided to post them on forum instead.

Megan usually booked a hotel room and did incalls only, with Cruz in the adjacent room in case anything went awry. The night she went missing, Cruz is no where to be found. Why? Did he know that Megan was going to do an outcall for big money, and so there was no reason for him to be there? Is THAT why he was less than cooperative with LE?

According to the statement's of Maureen's sister, Maureen only worked in Manhattan and only did incalls because she knew hotels had camera's. At some point on the evening of the 9th, she called friends asking for a ride home. The rest of Maureen's story from that point on is unclear. Another friend quoted in one of the articles stated that Maureen was a talker who was always on the phone. So, is it possible she called one friend to tell them she had been robbed, another to say that she was at PABT, and yet other friends asking for a ride home? Is THIS the reason why were all having touble piecing together her story...because we're assuming this was all one call? All from PABT? I don't know. But I don't believe for a minute that Maureen would take a car date with a complete stranger. I just don't. So maybe, just maybe, she also had a rare outcall with a client set up, and we just can't see that because the facts are so convoluted surrounding her that we can't get from point A to point B. See what I'm saying?

Now, DS makes mention of the fact that Amber once took a car date and ended up dumped on the side of the road bleeding. Surely, that would make Amber at least ALITTLE paranoid about who she took a car date from (if she even did them at all after that). And we know that Amber, her boyfriend and Schaller normally had a safety routine even when it came to the incalls she did. And yet, Amber walks out of the house for an outcall promising big money, despite all that.

So I'm wondering this...if some of these girls usually did incalls and usually had rooms, why did they agree to an outcall (forget the money for a minute). Let's say this client was interested in finding an overnight girl for a party. He couldn't have brought the party to them, now could he? They would have to go to the party. And that would be big money.
And is that what was also going on at Brewer's house the night SG went missing? I honestly don't know. I would THINK police would have discovered a "party", but then, I'm not convinced LE even looked in Brewer's house that night. Or even asked if anyone else was there. Maybe they did, maybe the didn't. I don't know. But nothing would shock me at this point.

Just some thoughts. And ones I haven't really had time to think through. But I'm tossing them out here anyway.

ETA: Also interesting to ponder along these lines is Melissa's boyfriend's comments about Melissa being friendly with an older guy in Long Island, and that she some times brought a friend along to visit him.

~above BBM~

MK I have been considering the same thing. Aside from the money, what inticed these girls to break away from their usual precautionary habits? I thought of the party idea also, because that would be a legit reason why the girls went with this guy.

What are possible other reasons?

Could they have agreed to go with him because he claimed to be shooting some sort of video? I read that MBB made a friend thru a modeling site that introduced her to CL escorting. Also, SG had aspirations of being a singer/actress. This tactic could lure the girls to his 'studio'.

Is he/does he claim to be someone famous or recognizable in the area and requires the girls to be stealth to protect his identity? I'm not sure that I buy into this theory as he could be stealth entering a hotel or residence and this theory would include the big bucks promise. (which I am trying to exclude at this time) However, he made have offered them a 'new life' with the condition that they leave things from their 'old life' behind.

Any other ideas?

MOO

wm

 

[Mountain_Kat]

~above BBM~

MK I have been considering the same thing. Aside from the money, what inticed these girls to break away from their usual precautionary habits? I thought of the party idea also, because that would be a legit reason why the girls went with this guy.

What are possible other reasons?

Could they have agreed to go with him because he claimed to be shooting some sort of video? I read that MBB made a friend thru a modeling site that introduced her to CL escorting. Also, SG had aspirations of being a singer/actress. This tactic could lure the girls to his 'studio'.

Is he/does he claim to be someone famous or recognizable in the area and requires the girls to be stealth to protect his identity? I'm not sure that I buy into this theory as he could be stealth entering a hotel or residence and this theory would include the big bucks promise. (which I am trying to exclude at this time) However, he made have offered them a 'new life' with the condition that they leave things from their 'old life' behind.

Any other ideas?

MOO

wm

It sometimes amazes me how much you and I think alike, WM. Yep, I've definitely considered the photography/film angle when considering why these girls might agree to an outcall. Photography doesn't require much in the way of materials and set up, but film does. It also requires other actors. IMO, this would be another scenario where the girl would have to go to "it", rather than "it" come to them.

Additionally, as I've stated before, there are sites out there where girls can advertize for jobs in specific adult entertainment fields (film being one of them). The person seeking to do the hiring can type in VERY specific things he or she is looking for, and search through those listings. If, for example, I wanted girls under 5 feet, blonde, blue eyes, I could search for girls that match that criteria, and only girls who fit that specific would come up. That would be a very convenient feature to have for a serial killer who is type oriented, wouldn't you agree? And I did find an ad for one of our 4 girls on a site like this...so I'm not just pulling the idea out of thin air. What I having been able to find yet are ads on this site (or similar ones) for the other 3, but that's a difficult task to begin with due to working names changing left and right.

Someone in here recently posted a working name for one of the girls I hadn't heard before...Sabrina, I think (have to go back and look). I haven't checked into that name yet.

ETA: Here we go...Gilbert’s employer was listed in the arrest log as Lace Party Girls and her alias as “Sabrina.” (Thanks, Redbird!)

 

[waltzingmatilda]

Thank you redbird for all of your valuable research! :rocker:

So the GB4 and SG have arrest records. Interesting. If the lion/gazelle theory is valid, then this person researched his victims. Which I do not doubt, as this killer seems meticulous and methodical. MOO

wm

 

[Mountain_Kat]

Thank you redbird for all of your valuable research! :rocker:

So the GB4 and SG have arrest records. Interesting. If the lion/gazelle theory is valid, then this person researched his victims. Which I do not doubt, as this killer seems meticulous and methodical. MOO

wm

You could sure find out alot of info on a potential victim if you were in LE. You could also coerce the hell out of a victim if you were in law enforcement...insist they break normal patterns, insist they leave behind their cell phones, etc. etc. And if all your victims (their friends and family members) were into drugs, the threat level increases.

Akeem Cruz, for example...he'd have had alot to gain by keeping his mouth shut considering he was trafficking cocaine and women. Amber Lynn Costello's last message from this client ended up missing when KO went to look for it. Who erased it? Someone scared of what might happen to them if they didn't erase it?

Just questions...answers elude me.

 

[kemo]

From what I can tell there are three basic arrangements "Craigs List" Call Girls might use:

1) the "incall" (either at their own home like Amber or a hotel/motel like Maureen or Megan. This would offer some security (probably a cam and perhaps a "protector" in an adjoining room). It would offer no guarantees (think of the Craigslist killer) but it is extremely unlikely any of the GB4 were utilizing that particular arrangement at the time they were killed. It is very risky to remove a dead body from a motel room.

2) The "outcall" to a motel/hotel. This was apparently what Melissa did on a regular basis. Since here phone was traced to two different motels in LI on the day she went missing, she probably had at least one "no problem" trick that day. The second motel her phone was traced to may have also been a "no problem" trick or it may have been with her killer. Still, it is very risky to remove a dead body from a motel room.

3) The "outcall" to someone's house. This is probably the most lucrative arrangement but it is also potentially the most dangerous since the girl would be on the punter's turf and he would be in a position to do what he wanted and remove the body to a vehicle and dump it where ever he wanted. This is what Sandra was doing when she went missing and most likely what Megan was doing as well. Very likely all of the GB4 were doing one of these at the time they were killed.

It appears that all of the GB4 deviated from their standard procedure, without making any arrangements for security and not telling anyone where they were going or who they were with. I suspect they knew their "fatal" customer and trusted him. They must have had previous "dates with him that went without a hitch.

This is very consistent with other SK's who targeted hookers: they were regular customers who normally gave the girls no trouble. Only occasionally did they kill or engage in any violence.
I think it is almost certain that the killer (of the GB4 at least) was enough of a "regular" of all 4 girls to have gained their trust to deviate from their normal operation in hopes of a big payoff. Find any customer with links to two or more of them, and it’s probably they guy.

 

[Mountain_Kat]

From what I can tell there are three basic arrangements "Craigs List" Call Girls might use:

1) the "incall" (either at their own home like Amber or a hotel/motel like Maureen or Megan. This would offer some security (probably a cam and perhaps a "protector" in an adjoining room). It would offer no guarantees (think of the Craigslist killer) but it is extremely unlikely any of the GB4 were utilizing that particular arrangement at the time they were killed. It is very risky to remove a dead body from a motel room.

2) The "outcall" to a motel/hotel. This was apparently what Melissa did on a regular basis. Since here phone was traced to two different motels in LI on the day she went missing, she probably had at least one "no problem" trick that day. The second motel her phone was traced to may have also been a "no problem" trick or it may have been with her killer. Still, it is very risky to remove a dead body from a motel room.

3) The "outcall" to someone's house. This is probably the most lucrative arrangement but it is also potentially the most dangerous since the girl would be on the punter's turf and he would be in a position to do what he wanted and remove the body to a vehicle and dump it where ever he wanted. This is what Sandra was doing when she went missing and most likely what Megan was doing as well. Very likely all of the GB4 were doing one of these at the time they were killed.

It appears that all of the GB4 deviated from their standard procedure, without making any arrangements for security and not telling anyone where they were going or who they were with. I suspect they knew their "fatal" customer and trusted him. They must have had previous "dates with him that went without a hitch.

This is very consistent with other SK's who targeted hookers: they were regular customers who normally gave the girls no trouble. Only occasionally did they kill or engage in any violence.
I think it is almost certain that the killer (of the GB4 at least) was enough of a "regular" of all 4 girls to have gained their trust to deviate from their normal operation in hopes of a big payoff. Find any customer with links to two or more of them, and it’s probably they guy.

Alot of good thoughts in this post, Kemo. Just a few questions:

1). Where did you read that Melissa's phone was traced to 2 Long Island hotel's on the day of her disappearance? Can you link that info, please, because I must have completely missed that.

2). You mentioned "Sandra" in your post. I'm assuming that was a typo, but I want to fully understand what you're saying in your post, so can you clarify which girl you actually meant? Thanks.

 

[inspctrgadget]

From what I can tell there are three basic arrangements "Craigs List" Call Girls might use:

1) the "incall" (either at their own home like Amber or a hotel/motel like Maureen or Megan. This would offer some security (probably a cam and perhaps a "protector" in an adjoining room). It would offer no guarantees (think of the Craigslist killer) but it is extremely unlikely any of the GB4 were utilizing that particular arrangement at the time they were killed. It is very risky to remove a dead body from a motel room.

2) The "outcall" to a motel/hotel. This was apparently what Melissa did on a regular basis. Since here phone was traced to two different motels in LI on the day she went missing, she probably had at least one "no problem" trick that day. The second motel her phone was traced to may have also been a "no problem" trick or it may have been with her killer. Still, it is very risky to remove a dead body from a motel room.

3) The "outcall" to someone's house. This is probably the most lucrative arrangement but it is also potentially the most dangerous since the girl would be on the punter's turf and he would be in a position to do what he wanted and remove the body to a vehicle and dump it where ever he wanted. This is what Sandra was doing when she went missing and most likely what Megan was doing as well. Very likely all of the GB4 were doing one of these at the time they were killed.

It appears that all of the GB4 deviated from their standard procedure, without making any arrangements for security and not telling anyone where they were going or who they were with. I suspect they knew their "fatal" customer and trusted him. They must have had previous "dates with him that went without a hitch.

This is very consistent with other SK's who targeted hookers: they were regular customers who normally gave the girls no trouble. Only occasionally did they kill or engage in any violence.
I think it is almost certain that the killer (of the GB4 at least) was enough of a "regular" of all 4 girls to have gained their trust to deviate from their normal operation in hopes of a big payoff. Find any customer with links to two or more of them, and it’s probably they guy.

I think that there's also something called "CBJ" which stands for "Car *advertiser censored*". I could be wrong about this.

Check out the Utopia post by Seeker6591 who asked about Jasmie, who I believe was Megan Waterman since the same phone number was used (207=807=9290). This entire thread seems dedicated to CBJs, or other types of quickies. I suspect the M.O. of the SK was to call and get a CBJ, at least in some instances where they were last seen walking to a car.

From the post, it looks like Megan advertised in June 2009 for a $60 CBJ.

http://www.utopiaguide.com/forums/archive/index.php/t-31831-p-8.html

 

[inspctrgadget]

Now that I think about it, if the SK calls and asks for a CBJ (car bj), they don't really need to convince the escort to meet them down the street with some kind of elaborate story about being rich or famous, etc. The escort would herself want to avoid letting the John know where she was staying, be it her house or her hotel room. She would say something like "meet me at the corner of such and such street," etc.