The Girlfriend's Statement

[wowitsdark]

Speaking only for myself, I don't *blame* her for anything. My perspective has strictly to do with her credibility as a witness and my perception of Crump's actions which are, imo, extremely despicable and not at all consistent with his ethical obligations. jmo

Same here. To me, it's all about credibility.

It's unfortunate that she is young and in an emotionally difficult place right now, and has to have her credibility questioned. Nobody should have to be in that position who didn't invite it upon themselves, and she certainly did not do that.

The issue, to me, though, is that GZ's life is in the balance right now. He either committed 2nd degree murder, or he didn't. From a legal and moral standpoint, he is owed a fair and objective trial. It's how we do things. And our feelings of sympathy for the girl's position can't get in the way of ensuring that our justice system works as it is supposed to. If she is to testify, whether or not she is a credible witness must be considered.

 

[jjenny]

Same here. To me, it's all about credibility.

It's unfortunate that she is young and in an emotionally difficult place right now, and has to have her credibility questioned. Nobody should have to be in that position who didn't invite it upon themselves, and she certainly did not do that.

The issue, to me, though, is that GZ's life is in the balance right now. He either committed 2nd degree murder, or he didn't. From a legal and moral standpoint, he is owed a fair and objective trial. It's how we do things. And our feelings of sympathy for the girl's position can't get in the way of ensuring that our justice system works as it is supposed to. If she is to testify, whether or not she is a credible witness must be considered.

ITA. Zimmerman could end up spending a really long time in prison. He deserves a fair trial. And it is going to be very difficult for him to get one, considering the enormous publicity affecting the jury pool.

 

[Karmady]

ITA. Zimmerman could end up spending a really long time in prison. He deserves a fair trial. And it is going to be very difficult for him to get one, considering the enormous publicity affecting the jury pool.

Not only the jury pool, either. I was talking to that same experienced trial attorney I asked about the hearsay issue. He felt that it was entirely possible that the judge will not want to put his career on the line at an SYG hearing in this case. WAY too much potentially career-ending (or worse) pressure. We agreed that it was unfortunate, but that it's hardly beyond the realm of possibility, if not likely. :::sigh:::

 

[ILikeToBendPages]

IMO, what anyone would do is really just anecdotal. Personally, I would go home as fast as possible, walking with something sharp protruding from between my fingers (like my car keys) so I could poke their eyes out if they approached me and tried anything. I'd shut the door to my house as quickly as possible, and lock it. I would turn out the lights inside, and peer out from between the curtains to see if they stuck around or left my neighborhood.

No way would I walk up to them and initiate a conversation.

I guess Trayvon could of pelted him with Skittles. but that could be considered assault and a reason to be shot dead.

 

[ILikeToBendPages]

There is no evidence that GZ 'hunted TM down." He watched him. There is no evidence anywhere that his gun was drawn or he "confronted" TM with a gun. We do not even know if TM knew GZ had a gun. This is all opinion based on no evidence to date.

There is no evidence that suggests that TM was looking at a gun pointed at him and decding whether to flee and get shot in the back. How did GZ get a broken nose and witnesses see him having his head smashed into concrete if TM was being detained at gunpoint? That makes no sense. From what evidence do you postulate that TM tried to get the gun to save himself? Please, please link to evidence in the Doc dump that shows evidence that TM was held at gunpoint. This kind of speculation is so far off the mark and so unfair.

Do you want people making up stories with no evidence to attach to TM or his family? Then please lets stick to facts in evidence.

George was out of his truck armed looking for an A##### that always gets away. I think George places himself out of his truck looking for someone up to no good and on drugs. That to me is hunting a person down.

It's also reasonable to me that Trayvon saw the gun, thought George was going for that gun and that is what started a fight. That to me makes sense.

I have no evidence just as you have none. I am stating my own opinion of what I think happened between a young boy and a grown man.

 

[Nova]

You may be right about that. But maybe not. Idk. This Pew study suggests that blacks identify hispanics as hispanics and view them favorably, in general. I thought it was interesting, so I linked it.

Nonetheless, my point was that the girl, imo, was responding to Crump's characterizations of race, not her own and not Trayvon's. There's no doubt in my mind that Crump's characterization of George as "white" was entirely deliberate and not based on his own racial construct -- whatever that might be in his non-professional life.

and thanks, again, for the respectful post.

http://www.pewsocialtrends.org/2008/01/31/do-blacks-and-hispanics-get-along/

Well, in terms of the study, I'm not sure what the respondents were asked and whether they identified Hispanics by sight or were simply asked how they viewed Hispanics. Some of my African American friends who grew up in heavily black neighborhoods say they didn't grow up distinguishing between different ethnicities of white people. I suppose that's less common today because the Latino population has grown.

But speaking just for myself, I don't think I would identify George Zimmerman as Latino (most Latinos I know don't like the "H" word, LOL), particularly not if I saw him in the dark. I guess if I were giving a police interview, I might say "possibly Latino"; but if I were making a comment to a friend on the phone, I'd probably describe him as "white".

 

[Nova]

ITA. Zimmerman could end up spending a really long time in prison. He deserves a fair trial. And it is going to be very difficult for him to get one, considering the enormous publicity affecting the jury pool.

I find it odd that you write that. Based on reading here, I think it will be almost impossible to find a jury that will convict GZ unanimously.

(ETA Unless GZ' statements are so contradictory that he loses all credibility. I'm assuming they aren't that bad, since he wasn't arrested that first night or the following day.)

 

[jjenny]

I find it odd that you write that. Based on reading here, I think it will be almost impossible to find a jury that will convict GZ unanimously.

(ETA Unless GZ' statements are so contradictory that he loses all credibility. I'm assuming they aren't that bad, since he wasn't arrested that first night or the following day.)

You never know what the jury is going to do and certainly can not base it on what we are talking about here.

 

[CathyinTexas]

IMO, I think her story has enough questions around it that I think she's going to get torn apart in a deposition/on the stand. It doesn't help that she is the only one testifying to things that only she heard. There are no other witnesses that can collaborate the start of the fight.

If her parents didn't want her involved, that is why, imo. Yes, she will be torn apart on the stand. Hopefully that will cause the jury to sympathize with her. I think she will do well, and help to convict GZ.

 

[CathyinTexas]

I was referring to statements that she made in the recording. Was it edited or cut up before release?

I definitely noticed one issue between what Crump said and her testimony. She clearly says he was running, yet Crump had said that she said TM refused to run and that she was trying to get him to run. Am I missing something there?

He ran when she told him to run. Stopped running, out of breath, thought he lost him, then saw him again. She told him to run again and he said no because he was almost to his Dad's right before GZ confronted him.

 

[wowitsdark]

If her parents didn't want her involved, that is why, imo. Yes, she will be torn apart on the stand. Hopefully that will cause the jury to sympathize with her. I think she will do well, and help to convict GZ.

From my POV, I believe it is appropriate that they question her credibility, but I hope it does not come off as 'tearing her apart' on the stand, and that the jury remains objective, rather than sympathetic to a witness on either side.

Feelings of sadness for the girl really have nothing to do with whether GZ acted in self-defense or not.

 

[IzzyBlanche]

I don't think Zimmerman ever claimed Trayvon jumped him from behind. My understanding of the story is that Zimmerman claims Trayvon approached him and they exchanged words.
Of course we don't have the actual statement from Zimmerman yet.

You're right, we don't have the actual statements, but we do have the "jumped from behind" scenario reported in numerous news sources including this one:

http://www.cbsnews.com/8301-18563_162-57401173/twin-investigations-open-in-trayvon-martin-case/

"What happened next is the critical question. A law enforcement source says Zimmerman told police he began retreating to his car, and only fired his weapon after Martin jumped him from behind."

 

[jjenny]

You're right, we don't have the actual statements, but we do have the "jumped from behind" scenario reported in numerous news sources including this one:

http://www.cbsnews.com/8301-18563_162-57401173/twin-investigations-open-in-trayvon-martin-case/

"What happened next is the critical question. A law enforcement source says Zimmerman told police he began retreating to his car, and only fired his weapon after Martin jumped him from behind."

That is really not consistent with words being exchanged.
Which also was reported as part of Zimmerman's story.

 

[CathyinTexas]

But I do have an idea, in fact, I know, from witness statements, who hit the ground and started yelling for help, George. IMO, it's grasping at straws and a practice in futility to continue to carry on the charade. But that's JMO.

Eyewitness testimony is unreliable, especially an eyewitness who looked at individuals in the dark. Much study has been done about it. I believe it was Trayvon screaming because he saw a gun, jmo.

 

[CathyinTexas]

Well all I can say about GZ's injuries is that shows me, IMO, that Trayvon was besting his stalker and attacker. Tragically, Trayvon was outgunned.

I believe all of Trayvon's actions were defensive, and that if he wanted to kill or injure GZ he would have hurt him a lot worse. I think he wanted to just get away. I don't feel sorry for GZ as far as the injuries go, that don't look that bad to me. jmo

 

[Lovelymountains]

Same here. To me, it's all about credibility.

It's unfortunate that she is young and in an emotionally difficult place right now, and has to have her credibility questioned. Nobody should have to be in that position who didn't invite it upon themselves, and she certainly did not do that.

The issue, to me, though, is that GZ's life is in the balance right now. He either committed 2nd degree murder, or he didn't. From a legal and moral standpoint, he is owed a fair and objective trial. It's how we do things. And our feelings of sympathy for the girl's position can't get in the way of ensuring that our justice system works as it is supposed to. If she is to testify, whether or not she is a credible witness must be considered.

The reality is that how we feel about this young girl does not @affect the justice system one way or another. If we had the power to do that I would not even be commenting. The truth is our comments in no way will be a factor in GZ getting a fair trial. Our opinions of witness and what they say are only relevant to this forum and not a court of law. Not one of us will be on the jury which decides Mr. Zimmerman's fate. Even if one of us were called to jury duty, we would be dismissed forthwith because of our participation here. So to imply that we are hindering the cause of justice by our opinions expressed here simply isn't realistic.

 

[AJ Noiter]

It was reported the parents did call SPD and their call was unreturned. jmo

Other than Crump's words I've not heard this, and to be honest I don't trust Crump. Why was the "get off" detail left out? Why is he stating that she's the girlfriend when.. well, lets just leave that alone

 

[AJ Noiter]

I don't think it's clear at all that she is hurting. Quite the contrary. I think she didn't give the whole situation more than a moments thought other than to gossip momentarily about it with her friends until Crump got to her. jmo

I don't even think it was gossip, to be honest. I think she just informed her cousin about it, no more than a simple "hey, you remember that guy? he was shot" type deal. That's my recollection of it. I have her twitter feed saved (in case of scrubbing) so I'll take another look.

 

[Karmady]

I don't even think it was gossip, to be honest. I think she just informed her cousin about it, no more than a simple "hey, you remember that guy? he was shot" type deal. That's my recollection of it. I have her twitter feed saved (in case of scrubbing) so I'll take another look.

No need to trouble yourself, the reference you mention is the only one. I was assuming she may have discussed it with her school friends who also would have known Trayvon and the nature of their relationship, whatever that may have been.

 

[Karmady]

The reality is that how we feel about this young girl does not @affect the justice system one way or another. If we had the power to do that I would not even be commenting. The truth is our comments in no way will be a factor in GZ getting a fair trial. Our opinions of witness and what they say are only relevant to this forum and not a court of law. Not one of us will be on the jury which decides Mr. Zimmerman's fate. Even if one of us were called to jury duty, we would be dismissed forthwith because of our participation here. So to imply that we are hindering the cause of justice by our opinions expressed here simply isn't realistic.

Not speaking for the OP, but what I would be expressing is a deeper concern for the justice system, in general, and the way that the opinions expressed here bear it out. I won't elaborate b/c it's o/t and rather academic. But I will say that if any case was ever driven by the opinions of the general public, it is THIS one. Because of that, imo, the sense that the girl's statements are not being looked at critically and objectively due to overriding emotions regarding her age and circumstances is disturbing. Even more disturbing is that fact that Crump and the media were counting on it, and that they were correct. jmo