The HW or WH belt evidence at gilgonews

[Hejejej]

Hi!
Had anyone listened to the LISK podcast?

Am listening and they discussed initials were matching to someone who lived with JB and who also allegedly ran a prostitution ring

 

[MemBil]

Hi Disco1 and geomtry1
This thread is about the new LISK evidence; the HW or WH initials on the black leather belt found at on of the LISK crime scenes.
So please keep on topic.

Could it not be HM, if so, maybe google "Tugboat Companies in Long Island" like he did, first one is named H...... M....... New York. Certainly just a coincidence. I finally joined Websleuths just to reply to you on this, cause I saw that when I read his post and googled it.

 

[MemBil]

I found this image drawn by American white nationalist Odinist/Wotanist Ron McVan.
The image is from his book Temple Of Wotan

Ron McVan - RationalWiki

The letter W in the word WOTAN is IMO very similar to the W in the belt.

My thought is that maybe the owner of the belt was an Odinist and maybe a Ron Mcvan fan ?

That looks like it could of come from any of those leather letter kits you could by at hobby stores when I was young.(born in 72). Or any fair that traveled through, six flags probably had them, Renaissance fairs, probably 50% of the places that you would go on vacation by then. etc.

 

[Angela_Beckett]

Malorie Hazen

 

[Lep2102012]

Bill Hartman

 

[eagleyeseymour]

Bill Hartman

Did you just create an account to post this? What makes you say Bill Hartman of all potential names out there?

 

[Lep2102012]

Did you just create an account to post this? What makes you say Bill Hartman of all potential names out there?

Just another possibility. I like the theory that they must have something to do with SSWA or atleast a hunter

 

[blvcit5216]

New to this forum- it looks like I have a lot of message boards to catch up on. One thing I stumbled upon was a post on the LISK subreddit where someone suggested the "HM" on the belt is actually "KM." (Sorry if this was already covered.) Is there a POI with those initials? Here's the link:

Belt Buckle : LISKiller

That same user made a separate post which got deleted but you can view that original post by changing the "reddit" in the URL to "removeddit". Here's the link to that one:

How to find LISK : LISKiller

 

[sbaxter1287]

This question may have already been answered but why is LE so certain that this belt belonged to or is strongly associated with a suspect? It seems so easy for the belt to have been random. If it was found within striking proximity to one of the victims how are we to be sure that it wasn’t one of their belongings? A point of speculation that I would be very interested to know the validity of is that there must have been some sort of DNA connection to the belt. IMO this would be one of the only few reasons that there could be such certainty as to the owner or handler of the belt. Does anyone have any information that either supports or refutes LE having any DNA that they believe is linked to a suspect?

 

[jessr927]

There is a man with the initials WH who lives in Babylon, and has professional ties to Gilgo and Jones Beach. His title is doctor though he is not a medical doctor.

As a disclaimer, I cannot take credit for this theory if it indeed pans out. The credit would go to the significant other of my close WS pal, who was probably tired of us spending countless nights discussing this case and decided to lend a hand We shall call him Mr. X!

 

[annie mae]

I have some thoughts and comments I'd like to share as I've been following case for a while now. I will just add them in numerical order below. I hope it's easy to follow/understand.

(1) Melissa's sister, the one who recvd calls said the caller referred to her sister as a *advertiser censored*.
(2)Maureen's friend, Sara claimed to have received some calls stating that Maureen was seen in a whorehouse in Queens.

(3)Bodies were found in some of the following locations: Mamaroneck, Hempstead, Gilgo, Close to Queens area...
In the suitcase of Cheeries, I believe there was a note or message tucked inside written in Spanish.

(4)Ludwig Paz, (I believe is of Hispanic background) the retired detective who was arrested for running a slew of brothels (aka WhoreHouses)...one of which was out of Queens and Long Island areas...

(5) I believe in order to get these girls to leave their personal belongings behind, i.e; purse and esp. **phone...the caller would def have to convince them he was in need of COMPLETE anonymity. He would call late at night when he knew they were high(er) & more vulnerable and perhaps emphasis only giving them the $1500.00 if they left all of their belongings behind...or else he would NOT pick them up.
He may have mentioned he was a Cop leaving them to feel safe enough to do so and to understand keeping phones away.

(6) Shannon- From what I can see she ran anytime anyone even mentioned the word "Cop" or "Police" With police scanners...any COP with a scanner could have picked up on the calls and when over there. We have no idea bc the 911 transcripts have not been made public.

Can THE 911 Operator(s) be subpoenaed? who took Shannon's calls?

I've read before that a missing victim could not testify bc she was found dead and that the 911 Operator had testified to what the victim had said during her 911 call. Again...other girls stated that they have entertained COPS - over and over...and Shannon was clearly deadly afraid of anyone mentioning COPS to her.

Is WhoreHouse the name of their Club/ Cult...etc "WH" The belt's initials do not really come off as personal initials but more of a type of Membership or an initiation of some sort? IDK I could be wrong but wanted to share.

But...In Closing...Does anyone know if Ludwig Paz has ever been investigated for Gilgo? Or any of his cronies?
Here is his story (including his wife and the other cops below)
Any thoughts? Thanks for reading!
Retired NYPD detective, wife plead guilty to running brothels, gambling ring

Great post with no doubts!

 

[Chance's Mom]

I don't know know if anyone else has mentioned this, but there is a company named (wh)ORE Haus studios that makes belt buckles. Could the belt had come from them? Given he referred to *advertiser censored* and whorehouses, the name of the company stuck out to me.

 

[lazyeyeparlay]

Half Man perhaps? I grew up in the nineties and writing on belts seems to be music based particularly punk rock.

 

[lazyeyeparlay]

also

Half Man perhaps? I grew up in the nineties and writing on belts seems to be music based particularly punk rock.

nothing about what I see looks "embossed" in a classic sense

 

[lazyeyeparlay]

also also who writes or has initials of their name on a belt? That makes less sense than a short form band tribute.

also

nothing about what I see looks "embossed" in a classic sense

 

[Deleted member 96356]

That looks like it could of come from any of those leather letter kits you could by at hobby stores when I was young.(born in 72). Or any fair that traveled through, six flags probably had them, Renaissance fairs, probably 50% of the places that you would go on vacation by then. etc.

BBM
I had the same thought - it reminds me of the type of thing one can find at those art festivals that happen in cities everywhere during summer months. They mainly feature crafts and artisan products. If one were to buy a hand-tooled belt and it could be customized, then I'd think initials would be an obvious choice. Not my taste but to each their own.

This question may have already been answered but why is LE so certain that this belt belonged to or is strongly associated with a suspect?

RSBM
From the NBC https://www.nbcnews.com/news/crime-courts/police-reveal-evidence-new-york-serial-killer-case-nearly-decade-n1117401 news report: During a news conference on Thursday, Suffolk Police Commissioner Geraldine Hart released a photo of a black leather belt she said authorities believe was "handled" by an unknown suspect. Hart said the belt, which is embossed with the letters "HM" or "WH," did not belong to any of the victims.

The emphasis on handling makes me suspect they lifted DNA or prints from the belt that can't be matched to the victims. They don't say how they're sure the belt didn't belong to the victims, but they're obviously keeping details of this particular bit of evidence close to the vest. Maybe they hoped releasing the belt photo would rattle someone's cage.

ETA sorry for the long URL, I can't get it to hotlink

 

[Deleted member 96356]

^^ Upon further reflection last night, I wonder if the belt recovered as evidence was consistent with the tool used for strangulation. As opposed to strangulation via bare hands or a piece of rope, etc.

So if they think it was consistent with what was used to strangle the victims then it's fair for LE to surmise the perp handled it.

 

[Deleted member 96356]

^^ Upon even further reflection, I wonder if the belt had been used a makeshift cinch or strap to hold one of the burlaps closed. Just another possibility for why LE might believe it was handled by the perp(s).

 

[Ironbutterfly8]

I did read somewhere that Sugar Bear was seen getting into a red BMW with nice rims, he was never seen again. It was also stated that the driver looked to be Hispanic. I haven't seen anything more about this, has anyone else heard anything more about this car/driver?? I think its extremely important.

 

[PickleChris]

On podcast Long Island Explained Danielle Campbell Part 2. She states that the belt has DNA on it that matches the DNA found on body/bodies that LE believe to be the killer. I don't remember ever hearing that anywhere else.