The Importance of the Pineapple

[icedtea4me]

When I was younger, I would make hot tea in a glass like that (it had a handle, right?)

What do you think of the glass and oversized spoon/ bowl of pineapple? One idea would be that it was a kid serving themselves. On the other side of the coin, it could be an intruder who doesn't know their way around the kitchen. Although that does seem a bit outlandish.

No, it didn't have a handle. It was a drinking glass, not a glass mug.

 

[OliviaG1996]

When I was younger, I would make hot tea in a glass like that (it had a handle, right?)

What do you think of the glass and oversized spoon/ bowl of pineapple? One idea would be that it was a kid serving themselves. On the other side of the coin, it could be an intruder who doesn't know their way around the kitchen. Although that does seem a bit outlandish.

The glass didn't have a handle, but I definitely think a child was responsible for the glass of tea(bag) being next to the pineapple bowl. One reason why is one you mentioned- the spoon. It appeared to be a serving spoon, "Patsy's good silver," as JR has said. That's something I can see a child doing- just grabbing whichever utensil is first in their line of vision.

I think BR and JBR decided to have a late-night snack and then went snooping around in the basement. That can account for why PR and JR repeatedly denied knowing anything about the pineapple and didn't clean up the kitchen before LE arrived. It's likely they only knew about BR and JBR being in the basement, not the kitchen. It's also been said that BR has never been questioned about the pineapple. I agree that the idea of an intruder feeding JBR pineapple is outlandish.


Here are some pictures of the glass and bowl:

​

The last one states:

Breakfast room: #415 & #417
a. Pineapple bowl

• Patricia and Burke's fingerprints

b. Glass on the table in north dining room

• Burke Ramsey's fingerprints

 

[Ringfinger]

I believe I read that the pineapple in her system was identical to the pineapple in the bowl, in that it had a matching rind. When I look at these pictures, it feels like children did this. It reminds me of when I was young. I would pick very large spoons for sweets and cereal, because I wanted to eat an excessive amount.

I remember seeing JR say that he was also surprised by the tissues, that they looked out of place. Maybe they were used in place of napkins, or to clean up? What a strange scene. I could also imagine that tissues could have been brought over to help a griever? Was this in a public area? I imagine a lot of chaos and tears when a house of adults are suddenly seeing JBR dead. It's all such a tragedy, every bit of it. Every bit.

 

[andreww]

The pineapple bowl with the serving spoon elicited a reaction of "I'd never serve it like that" from Patsy, however that bowl was photographed a few days earlier at the gathering at the Ramsey's home. It is more than likely, probably obvious, that the pineapple was put out for guests in the fancy serving bowl with the silver serving spoon. The uneaten portion was simply put in the fridge at the end of the night. This isn't a mystery, this is just the Ramsey's playing dumb and people falling for it.


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[OliviaG1996]

Here's a picture from the party at the Ramsey house on December 23, 1996 with the bowls:

​

No silver serving spoons are visible here. The bowl with the pineapple appears to be the size of the empty bowl pictured above.

 

[andreww]

So obviously that wasn't the pineapple bowl but I guarantee Patsy had more than one of them and it probably had a silver spoon in it.

The point being Patsy stating that she wouldn't have used the good China, but evidence shows that the good China was used quite recently. Coincidence?


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[OliviaG1996]

So obviously that wasn't the pineapple bowl but I guarantee Patsy had more than one of them and it probably had a silver spoon in it.

The point being Patsy stating that she wouldn't have used the good China, but evidence shows that the good China was used quite recently. Coincidence?


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BBM: Was it determined that the bowls were fine China? I recall JR and PR only commenting on the spoon being good China. They look like regular bowls to me. Also, I'm assuming investigators didn't ask attendees of the party whether they spotted a silver spoon or not.

 

[Ellie9]

I agree. IMO, the glass with the tea bag sitting next to the bowl of pineapple is even more important.

This may seem like a dumb observation, but IIRC, it was noted that there was very little urine found where JB had been murdered. If she drank that entire cup of tea, wouldn't there have been more? Did she even drink that tea? The glass looks empty.

As a grownup I would need to pee a lot after that much tea! Just saying.

 

[andreww]

BBM: Was it determined that the bowls were fine China? I recall JR and PR only commenting on the spoon being good China. They look like regular bowls to me. Also, I'm assuming investigators didn't ask attendees of the party whether they spotted a silver spoon or not.

Not sure if that was confirmed or not, not that it matters. I believe Patsy's response was that she wouldn't have served a snack in a "serving bowl" with a big "serving spoon". What she probably should have said was "we served pineapple in a serving bowl with a serving spoon at the party and put the leftovers in the fridge".

Like every other piece of evidence in this case the Rs denied ownership. The bowl, the flashlight, the HiTek boots, the torn up card, and the Santa bear. Nope, never seen that before [emoji56]


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[OliviaG1996]

This may seem like a dumb observation, but IIRC, it was noted that there was very little urine found where JB had been murdered. If she drank that entire cup of tea, wouldn't there have been more? Did she even drink that tea? The glass looks empty.

As a grownup I would need to pee a lot after that much tea! Just saying.

That's not a dumb observation at all, Ellie9. There was urine found outside of the wine cellar door on the carpet (IIRC). Just how much urine, I don't know. What's frustrating about the glass with the tea bag is that we don't know if any tea was consumed from the glass or not.

Would autopsy tests be able to determine if tea was in JBR's system along with the pineapple? Also, does anyone know if saliva tests were done on the rim of the tea glass? I've only read about the fingerprints.

 

[OliviaG1996]

Not sure if that was confirmed or not, not that it matters. I believe Patsy's response was that she wouldn't have served a snack in a "serving bowl" with a big "serving spoon". What she probably should have said was "we served pineapple in a serving bowl with a serving spoon at the party and put the leftovers in the fridge".

Like every other piece of evidence in this case the Rs denied ownership. The bowl, the flashlight, the HiTek boots, the torn up card, and the Santa bear. Nope, never seen that before [emoji56]


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I think I see where we got our differing recollections on this (BBM):

Patsy Ramsey BDA interview - June 23, 1998

18 TRIP DEMUTH: Photo 137.
19 TOM HANEY: 134, five, six and seven --
20 TRIP DEMUTH: I have a question for you, you
21 spent a lot of time in this room, did you not?
22 PATSY RAMSEY: Right.
23 TRIP DEMUTH: This photo was taken later, I'm
24 not exactly sure when, but can you address this dish
25 that is on the -- what you call it, end table?
0376
1 PATSY RAMSEY: That is a little China bowl.
2 TRIP DEMUTH: Uh-huh.
3 PATSY RAMSEY: Can't tell what is in it. It
4 looks like oranges or something, or apples.
5 TRIP DEMUTH: When you were in this room did
6 people feed you?
7 PATSY RAMSEY: Yeah. I think Priscilla
8 brought in some things.
9 TRIP DEMUTH: Do you remember what that was?
10 PATSY RAMSEY: I remember somebody talking
11 about going to get bagels. You know, I was so -- I
12 kept looking at that.
13 TRIP DEMUTH: You don't recall what was in
14 that dish?
15 PATSY RAMSEY: I don't know if it is fruit or
16 something.
17 TRIP DEMUTH: Do you have any memory?
18 PATSY RAMSEY: It looks to me like Priscilla
19 brought in some fruit. Somebody talked about going to
20 get bagels. I think she brought that.
21 That was unusual because I don't usually use
22 that bowl for serving. It is like a decorative piece.
23 I would not have put anything in that bowl.
24 TRIP DEMUTH: I'm curious, do you remember
25 what kind of fruit you were nibbling on?
0377
1 PATSY RAMSEY: I don't think I nibbled on
2 anything. I lost my appetite.
3 TRIP DEMUTH: What was brought in, do you
4 remember?
5 PATSY RAMSEY: No.
6 TRIP DEMUTH: Okay.

<SNIPPED>

5 PATSY RAMSEY: Somebody else did this,
6 because I would never put a spoon that big in a bowl
7 like that, and I can't tell what that is, whether that
8 is grits or apples or cereal or -- I can't tell what
9 that is.
10 TRIP DEMUTH: Inside the bowl you are saying?
11 PATSY RAMSEY: Inside the bowl.
12 TRIP DEMUTH: Do you recognize the bowl?
13 PATSY RAMSEY: Yeah.
14 TRIP DEMUTH: Where do you keep them?
15 PATSY RAMSEY: In the kitchen.
16 TRIP DEMUTH: Where in the kitchen?
17 PATSY RAMSEY: Well, in like a cupboard over
18 to -- there is kind of big sinks over here. There is
19 an island in the middle and big sinks and above that,
20 the cupboard with dishwear in it.
21 TRIP DEMUTH: What would you use these bowls
22 for?
23 PATSY RAMSEY: Whatever. Cereal usually. I
24 usually -- I think I got those little bowels for like
25 salsa, you know, salsa, chips and salsa. I mean,
0475
1 because you had -- there were other bowls for cereal,
2 but that is (inaudible).
3 TOM HANEY: Those bowls, you described them
4 being on the cabinet or a shelf, and you demonstrated
5 it was higher. Is that something JonBenet could have
6 reached?
7 PATSY RAMSEY: No.
8 TOM HANEY: Okay. The contents of the bowl,
9 does that appear to be pineapple to you?
10 PATSY RAMSEY: Could be. Could be.
11 TOM HANEY: That is what has been described
12 as --
13 PATSY RAMSEY: Is it? It could be.
14 TOM HANEY: Do you eat or does anybody in the
15 family eat a bowl of pineapple?
16 PATSY RAMSEY: Well, the kids both ate
17 pineapple, but I would never serve a bowl like that of
18 pineapple. I would think I would put two or three
19 pieces on their plate with the rest of their food or
20 something, because, I mean, it looks weird to set out a
21 bowl like that.

I don't think I've ever seen the "little China bowl" they're speaking about. It sounds like it may have been in the sun-room.

I don't understand what PR thinks is so weird about putting pineapple in a "bowl like that". Chips and salsa, but no pineapple?

Another interesting bit I found from the same interview:

1 TOM HANEY: If he [Burke] got up in the middle of the
2 night would he eat something like that?
3 PATSY RAMSEY: No. He would eat something
4 chocolate.
5 TOM HANEY: Could he reach the bowl?
6 PATSY RAMSEY: He could reach the bowl.
7 TOM HANEY: The spoon, where is it kept?
8 PATSY RAMSEY: In the silverware drawer in
9 there in the kitchen to the right of the range.
10 But, see, if the kids were making a snack for
11 themselves, even if they were, that is a huge serving
12 spoon. They, you know, they use a little spoon.
13 Now, I don't know if some of those women, you
14 know, Priscilla and them were there that morning, it
15 was early, and I don't know whether they were, you
16 know, fixing things for people to eat, but that doesn't
17 look right to me.

BBM: IMO, PR knew where they were going with this. She knew they were insinuating at the possibility that BR served JBR the pineapple.

 

[Ellie9]

This pineapple bowl is the big "bugaboo" for my own theory that Burke probably didn't do anything. A lot of people on here theorize that maybe PR caught JR doing something gross to JB but this doesn't account for a snack. Or tea served in a glass that's so wrong for hot drinks that a child probably thought this up.


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[InstantProof]

Kids aren't necessarily going to pick the right sized spoon for themselves either.

 

[3babydux_iCu]

I am new to WS, long time reader, first time poster. I've researched the Ramsey case many times before & over the past few days have been becoming re-obsessed with it (this is my habit lol)..the pineapple has always been weird to me & the fact that the ME estimated it to have been eaten approx 2 hours before her t.o.d--to me that has always signaled that they weren't being honest about her being asleep when they got home OR she got back up after they went to bed; hence my theory that BR has a lot to do with this..I've never realized it before but thanks to some posts here it makes obvious sense that the place setting was very child-like. Children do tend to grab the first item they see, or item that is familiar to them. Therefore it makes sense that a spoon is a spoon is a spoon to a child but to adults it's a serving spoon; mixed with the fact that PR first said in above posted "testimony"(?) that she used those particular bowls for cereal..then for some reason she backtracked but anyway..assuming the family did typically use them for cereal it makes sense that a child would grab the most familiar. Patsy surely didn't let them use the good China much, I'm sure.
PS: I apologize in advance for any typos in this and all future posts..it is something that irritates me greatly however I am accessing this on my phone thru Chrome & the box is pretty cramped, lol

 

[Springrain]

I am new to WS, long time reader, first time poster. I've researched the Ramsey case many times before & over the past few days have been becoming re-obsessed with it (this is my habit lol)..the pineapple has always been weird to me & the fact that the ME estimated it to have been eaten approx 2 hours before her t.o.d--to me that has always signaled that they weren't being honest about her being asleep when they got home OR she got back up after they went to bed; hence my theory that BR has a lot to do with this..I've never realized it before but thanks to some posts here it makes obvious sense that the place setting was very child-like. Children do tend to grab the first item they see, or item that is familiar to them. Therefore it makes sense that a spoon is a spoon is a spoon to a child but to adults it's a serving spoon; mixed with the fact that PR first said in above posted "testimony"(?) that she used those particular bowls for cereal..then for some reason she backtracked but anyway..assuming the family did typically use them for cereal it makes sense that a child would grab the most familiar. Patsy surely didn't let them use the good China much, I'm sure.
PS: I apologize in advance for any typos in this and all future posts..it is something that irritates me greatly however I am accessing this on my phone thru Chrome & the box is pretty cramped, lol

:wagon:
When studying the photo of the pineapple, that was my thought too. Since BR's fingerprints were on it (and for other reasons)--I would have to agree it definitely seems like he had something to do with it, or at least knows what happened. Especially with the denial about the pineapple knowledge when it was forensically proven it was handled, it all seems to point back at the Ramseys.

 

[Anti-K]

IDIs don't like to talk about pineapple. As Lou Smit said, it's the big bugaboo.


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Bzzzt! Wrong! IDI love to talk about the pineapple! I’ve talked about it many times, here on this forum; probably with you! So, let’s talk about it! Ready? Go!
…

AK

 

[Anti-K]

The glass didn't have a handle, but I definitely think a child was responsible for the glass of tea(bag) being next to the pineapple bowl. One reason why is one you mentioned- the spoon. It appeared to be a serving spoon, "Patsy's good silver," as JR has said. That's something I can see a child doing- just grabbing whichever utensil is first in their line of vision.

I think BR and JBR decided to have a late-night snack and then went snooping around in the basement. That can account for why PR and JR repeatedly denied knowing anything about the pineapple and didn't clean up the kitchen before LE arrived. It's likely they only knew about BR and JBR being in the basement, not the kitchen. It's also been said that BR has never been questioned about the pineapple. I agree that the idea of an intruder feeding JBR pineapple is outlandish.


Here are some pictures of the glass and bowl:

View attachment 84541View attachment 84542View attachment 84543View attachment 84544View attachment 84545​

The last one states:

Breakfast room: #415 & #417
a. Pineapple bowl

• Patricia and Burke's fingerprints

b. Glass on the table in north dining room

• Burke Ramsey's fingerprints

Why do people assume that the glass, spoon and bowl are all of a set? Could not one person have set out the bowl at one time and then later, next day even, someone else sets down the glass; yet, another person, this one drinking tea, looks for a place to put their tea bag, sees the glass…

No, I’m not joking.

Just because these items are on the table doesn’t mean that they are all connected or that any of them are associated with the crime in anyway.

Sorry, I don’t mean to pick on you, but you said a lot that I have questions about. Like, where is the evidence that THEY had a snack? JBR had pineapple in her, yes, probably eaten at home and after arriving home, yes, but there wasn’t enough pineapple, or anything, found in her to be described as a snack. People – not saying you – are fond of saying, oh, BR served her pineapple. Served into what? Where’s that bowl, or dish, or whatever? They cleaned that up, but left everything else, I guess.

I’m all for speculating and brainstorming and trying out wild ideas, but I think this table setting is the proverbial mountain out of a molehill. Anyway, just had to rant for a minute. Carry on; but if you want to pause for a minute and try to explain why we should accept that these items are related to each other and to the crime… that would be nice.
…

AK

 

[Anti-K]

BBM

I believe I read that the pineapple in her system was identical to the pineapple in the bowl, in that it had a matching rind. When I look at these pictures, it feels like children did this. It reminds me of when I was young. I would pick very large spoons for sweets and cereal, because I wanted to eat an excessive amount.

I remember seeing JR say that he was also surprised by the tissues, that they looked out of place. Maybe they were used in place of napkins, or to clean up? What a strange scene. I could also imagine that tissues could have been brought over to help a griever? Was this in a public area? I imagine a lot of chaos and tears when a house of adults are suddenly seeing JBR dead. It's all such a tragedy, every bit of it. Every bit.

Is it possible that the scene is so strange because it wasn’t created all at once, but once put together a piece or two at a time, at different times?
…

AK

 

[Anti-K]

:wagon:
When studying the photo of the pineapple, that was my thought too. Since BR's fingerprints were on it (and for other reasons)--I would have to agree it definitely seems like he had something to do with it, or at least knows what happened. Especially with the denial about the pineapple knowledge when it was forensically proven it was handled, it all seems to point back at the Ramseys.

Of this setting, only the bowl had fingerprints found on it and those were Mrs Ramsey&#8217;s and Burke&#8217;s. One print from each person. Do you think that it is possible for a third person, Mr Ramsey, perhaps, to have put the pineapple in the bowl without touching the bowl? If Mrs Ramsey and Burke only left one print each, is it possible that someone, let&#8217;s say jbr, could have touched the bowl without leaving any prints?

Also, just how are we time-stamping these prints?

Plus, although the Ramseys deny knowing anything about jbr eating pineapple or how pineapple came to be in that bowl, no one denies that pineapple was in the house (Mrs Ramsey bought it at Safeway, pre-cut).
&#8230;

AK

 

[OliviaG1996]

Why do people assume that the glass, spoon and bowl are all of a set? Could not one person have set out the bowl at one time and then later, next day even, someone else sets down the glass; yet, another person, this one drinking tea, looks for a place to put their tea bag, sees the glass&#8230;

No, I&#8217;m not joking.

Just because these items are on the table doesn&#8217;t mean that they are all connected or that any of them are associated with the crime in anyway.

According to what Patsy told Tom Haney, the table was cleaned by the time they left for the Whites'. Neither the glass nor the bowl could've been sitting on the table for more than a few hours before JBR was killed (since we agree the pineapple was most likely eaten after she arrived home). If one or both of the items were put onto the table after PR cleaned the table and before the Rs left for the Whites', and if neither of the items have anything to do with the crime, why hasn't anyone stepped forward and said, "Hey, I was in the dining room at [place time/date here] and may have placed the glass/bowl there."? Their memory couldn't possibly be that bad mere days/weeks after the murder.

Sorry, I don&#8217;t mean to pick on you, but you said a lot that I have questions about. Like, where is the evidence that THEY had a snack? JBR had pineapple in her, yes, probably eaten at home and after arriving home, yes, but there wasn&#8217;t enough pineapple, or anything, found in her to be described as a snack. People &#8211; not saying you &#8211; are fond of saying, oh, BR served her pineapple. Served into what? Where&#8217;s that bowl, or dish, or whatever? They cleaned that up, but left everything else, I guess.

Asking questions is not "picking on", so that's okay. eace:

I believe BR served the pineapple in the bowl it was found in for both he and JBR to snack on while BR made himself tea in the glass. The pineapple could've been already served in that same bowl and in the fridge to be grabbed as a quick snack. That could be why PR's fingerprints are on the bowl.

I think neither of the children cleaned up the table because: 1. Children aren't known for their cleanliness and 2. These children, specifically, were not known for their cleanliness according to LHP. JR and PR didn't clean up the "pineapple evidence" because they were unaware of any activity that took place between BR and JBR before observing JBR unconscious in the basement, other than knowing they were both in the basement. Or, they could've been so concerned about JBR, the glass and bowl clean-up escaped their minds. JMO.

I&#8217;m all for speculating and brainstorming and trying out wild ideas, but I think this table setting is the proverbial mountain out of a molehill. Anyway, just had to rant for a minute. Carry on; but if you want to pause for a minute and try to explain why we should accept that these items are related to each other and to the crime&#8230; that would be nice.
&#8230;

AK

If the only fingerprints found on the glass and bowl were those of JBR and someone who was known to have handled dishes in the Ramsey household, the "mountain out of a molehill" expression would fit. BR was not known to have helped with any housework, washing/drying/putting away dishes being part of that. If he had any chores including dishes or anything else, I've missed something.

If only the bowl and the glass were DNA-tested for saliva... :gaah: