The Incinerator

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I remember LE saying we have identified the remains of TB due to the totality of the evidence. He didn't say we have positively identified TB' remains due to DNA or dental testing, but again, by the totality of the evidence. IMO it seems they could not find DNA but looked at all the evidence and concluded it must be TB. Maybe I am wrong, but a good defense attorney could certainly poke holes with totality of the evidence if DNA has not proven it was TB. JMO

IMO your conclusion is correct, Eldee. So far as I can tell, all MSM reports about TB's remains having been found spring from the LE "totality of the evidence" remark which, it's fair to note, were made very early in the investigation. Curiously, we also have SB's terribly sad remarks that she'd been handed her husband's remains "in a box" which begs so far unanswered questions about whether it was LE who gave them to her. Because of the cloak of silence surrounding this investigation, together with the completely understandable WS rules, we have few available sleuthing avenues available, imo. I'm just one of those, I'm sure, who thought they had the whole thing figured out, only to discover I was barking up the wrong tree. (Hopefully LE's professional investigative techniques and those of the defense attorneys are less vulnerable to error.) Barring unforseen developments, the only clue as to the strength of the prosecution position, imo, will be if DM and/or MS are granted bail, imo. Even then, this case has passions running so high right across the country and beyond that there seems little doubt, imo, that if released from remand, the lives of both these persons would be in extreme and immediate danger. MOO as always and ever.
 
Really....?

I think this was mean't to be a hypothetical statement...and that is how I took it. I do not believe the poster was posting their actual opinion.... they are posting what could be construed if LE doesn't come up with any facts and lack of body evidence.... MOO
 
I think this was mean't to be a hypothetical statement...and that is how I took it. I do not believe the poster was posting their actual opinion.... they are posting what could be construed if LE doesn't come up with any facts and lack of body evidence.... MOO

Absolutely
that is exactly what I was trying to say.
DP said he felt like a trial was like going to war and I am sure will have his war chest ready.
I am the least cold and callous person you would ever meet.
I was simply saying that if LE comes to trial without DNA evidence of TB, and says they believe they found TB due to the totality of the evidence then this could be the kind of defense he could mount.
that's all
no callousness intended whatsoever.
Please forgive me if I offended anyone.
 
I read a few posts, not all of the pages so my post is just my experience and info, not a response to anyone.

Hubby and i live on property which is over 100 acres. We have NEVER had the need for such an incinerator and we have cows, sheep, horses and many other animals on the property here. The family has been here for generations with cattle and livestock and such a incinerator has never even been considered. The property surrounding us is many more hundreds of acres owned by family and they have no need for an incinerator.

We also have many wild animals ( deer, coyotes, skunk, possum, etc) which roam the property and have never needed an incinerator for dealing with them.

Hubby hunts and has a separate building for cleaning deer and alligators (that he has hunted) and friends come over to clean deer here too. But still no need for an incinerator.

Lots of brush and trees on the property have fallen in the hurricanes and storms that have hit us in the past few years. But never considered an incinerator for them. In fact that rather odd even consider that unless the "brush" being incinerated was marijuana plant stems and branches.

I asked my hubby ( who would know such things) about incinerators and no one in whole parish (county) has one (except for a few who need them to fulfill legal requirement to have one, such as very large poultry and swine operations. They have to have them because of the dangers of swine flu and bird flu and disease control.

I asked hubby about using incinerators for burning brush or wild animals, etc and he scoffed. Said it sounded like BS reason to him and my hubby knows his stuff about this stuff (in fact he used to raise hogs). For someone to state such a thing would certainly stand out to him as really odd.


I can't see any reason (except a sinister or illegal purpose) for having such an incinerator. There was something that DM wanted destroyed or obliterated, leaving no evidence.
 
I read a few posts, not all of the pages so my post is just my experience and info, not a response to anyone.

Hubby and i live on property which is over 100 acres. We have NEVER had the need for such an incinerator and we have cows, sheep, horses and many other animals on the property here. The family has been here for generations with cattle and livestock and such a incinerator has never even been considered. The property surrounding us is many more hundreds of acres owned by family and they have no need for an incinerator.

We also have many wild animals ( deer, coyotes, skunk, possum, etc) which roam the property and have never needed an incinerator for dealing with them.

Hubby hunts and has a separate building for cleaning deer and alligators (that he has hunted) and friends come over to clean deer here too. But still no need for an incinerator.

Lots of brush and trees on the property have fallen in the hurricanes and storms that have hit us in the past few years. But never considered an incinerator for them. In fact that rather odd even consider that unless the "brush" being incinerated was marijuana plant stems and branches.

I asked my hubby ( who would know such things) about incinerators and no one in whole parish (county) has one (except for a few who need them to fulfill legal requirement to have one, such as very large poultry and swine operations. They have to have them because of the dangers of swine flu and bird flu and disease control.

I asked hubby about using incinerators for burning brush or wild animals, etc and he scoffed. Said it sounded like BS reason to him and my hubby knows his stuff about this stuff (in fact he used to raise hogs). For someone to state such a thing would certainly stand out to him as really odd.


I can't see any reason (except a sinister or illegal purpose) for having such an incinerator. There was something that DM wanted destroyed or obliterated, leaving no evidence.

With respect.. I doubt the manufacturer would bother producing them if there was no use for them. Someone mentioned earlier that said incinerator was for the purpose of incinerating animals. So with that in mind there must be some call for these machines and I guess some people must be buying them. JMO... I can think of a few purposes and none of them sinister or illegal. JMO MOO
 
Does anyone here know what it takes to ID a victim when they are 'unrecognizable'? Would jewelry , a belt etc be sufficient??

Serology, DNA, the things you mentioned help, fingerprints, teeth, ridges of the palate, x ray could be a few.

JMO
 
(Snipped by me)

I can't see any reason (except a sinister or illegal purpose) for having such an incinerator. There was something that DM wanted destroyed or obliterated, leaving no evidence.

Respectfully, SwampMama, you may not have the same open fire permit restrictions in your area as are required by law in Southern Ontario. I think I posted a link to these some time ago.
 
Has anyone considered the possibility that LE did not find TB's remains? Is it possible that they found ashes in the incinerator and given the public attention this case has received, rushed to identify that which could not be identified? Could this explain the lack of information that us out there??
 
IMO and MOO, I fail to see how trying to look further into potential weaknesses in the prosecution's case can possibly be construed as either a defense of the accused or an attack on the victim. Quite the opposite, in fact, imo. Not only is it essential for the victim's to have his murderer or murderers correctly identified, tried and punished to the full extent of the law, but it's in society's best interests to insure that, to that end, due process is followed and justice is properly served. MOO. We, of course, are not bound by court restrictions so we are afforded an outstanding opportunity within the social media context established here, imo. To that end I'm not sure why any possibility should not be open to exploration, so long as it does not impact negatively on innocents not associated with the case. By "any possiblity" I prefer to explore even the most unlikely ideas for hidden leads and nuggets of potential, imo, but if all such close examination is only being done solely to convince oneself and others that those charged must be guilty because otherwise they wouldn't be charged, then, imo, there isn't much point in sleuthing at all. MOO. If there's no more to this case than the bits we've been provided to date by LE and MSM, there isn't even much point in bothering with a trial, either. MOO.
 
The wedding photos were taken offline by the wedding photographer. They're gone. There are other photos of TB showing no tattoos on his visible fingers, but not all fingers at once. (Example, holding baby photo.)

If he had tattoos they probably would have been mentioned in his missing persons description.

This was determined to be false a long time ago, and given the tenor of this thread tonight, it's hard not to assume it's being dredged up again to subtly make TB look "questionable".
 
With respect.. I doubt the manufacturer would bother producing them if there was no use for them. Someone mentioned earlier that said incinerator was for the purpose of incinerating animals. So with that in mind there must be some call for these machines and I guess some people must be buying them. JMO... I can think of a few purposes and none of them sinister or illegal. JMO MOO

I am sure there are purposes for them, as I stated, giving 2 specific incidences of people who needed them, in fact were required to have them ( poultry and swine farms who have an exceedingly large number of animals).

I can also add that they might be used by a veterinarian and have seen that they can be used by LE to destroy confiscated drugs.

However DM is nowhere near being any of those above people noted above who have a legitimate use for them.

Respectfully, SwampMama, you may not have the same open fire permit restrictions in your area as are required by law in Southern Ontario. I think I posted a link to these some time ago.

Thanks for finding the info on the fire restrictions. That is relevant to know. There are a great many times when we are under a complete fire ban in our area so I can relate.

For the brush and tree debris, there are things such as woodchippers and such, if you can't make a fire with them. DM also had considerable financial means to hire someone to deal with such. He hardly strikes me as the manual labor type person or the type who wants to work his and. I'm sure he would hire people to do that, unless it was something that you wouldn't want someone else to see or witness.

Open fires aren't the best way to deal with dead livestock. Nature itself is a great way of dealing with dead livestock, especially if there are wild animals about to hurry along the process. Didn't DM have the machinery such as a bulldozer or something that could have been used to bury such a large animal if there were such a problem? But there wasn't any livestock at the farm anyway sooo....

The rest of the post is just my musing an not a response to any of the above. The incinerator (especially when combined with the severe burning of TB's body) is just hinky. It just doesn't make sense. It costs a lot ( I thought about $7500 although $$ figures here have been higher) and was specifically ordered and delivered. Not just a "I came across it and got a good deal on it" kinda thing.

There had to be a specific purpose for DM to buy such a thing and I will be very interested in what he has to say it was. I will also be interested in the purchase of propane, specifically how much and when ( and also how much would be needed for certain purposes).

That being said... I appreciate all posts and views, even the ones that don't align with my views or experiences. they all prompt us to think more and to consider things that we may not have thought of before.
 
Has anyone considered the possibility that LE did not find TB's remains? Is it possible that they found ashes in the incinerator and given the public attention this case has received, rushed to identify that which could not be identified? Could this explain the lack of information that us out there??

<modsnip> Police found enough remains/evidence to get and ID, then the body/remains whatever, goes to coroner, coroner issues warrant for post mortem examination to pathologist to autopsy and determine COD and a positive ID was made and listed as such in the space provided on said warrant.

DNA can be used to ID very quickly if you "know" who you already have and have previous samples to compare to. You don't have to do a long drawn out, full blown test.

Serology, HLA typing, x ray, teeth, etc. could have been used. Maybe they didn't get a 100% ID result immediately, but close enough to be reasonably sure until a final post mortem could be done.

Or it could be a combination of any or all of the above, "the totality."

MOO
 
The wedding photos were taken offline by the wedding photographer. They're gone. There are other photos of TB showing no tattoos on his visible fingers, but not all fingers at once. (Example, holding baby photo.)

If he had tattoos they probably would have been mentioned in his missing persons description.

This was determined to be false a long time ago, and given the tenor of this thread tonight, it's hard not to assume it's being dredged up again to subtly make TB look "questionable".

MOO I'm baffled as to why tattoos on fingers would necessarily make somebody look questionable but, more importantly, was unaware this had earlier been determined to be false. I certainly would not have mentioned this potentially identifying feature had I been so aware. Is there (hopefully) a link to this so that it can be finally discounted? Thanks.
 
The wedding photos were taken offline by the wedding photographer. They're gone. There are other photos of TB showing no tattoos on his visible fingers, but not all fingers at once. (Example, holding baby photo.)".

You're quite right. I have located several photos - both from TB & SB's wedding and otherwise - on TB related FB pages, but the specific tattoo photos are proving quite elusive. That being said, all of the photo's that I have seen that show TB's hands show that at the time of his wedding he did not have tattoos on his fingers. So, it is safe to assume that the original debunking of the TB tattoo story still stands and hence TB could not have been identified by said tattoos. Thanks!
 
https://www.google.ca/search?q=tim+...&biw=1024&bih=672#biv=i|394;d|OkxqS0KxawR4sM:
Showing Tim's right hand with no tattoos.

https://www.google.ca/search?q=tim+...&biw=1024&bih=672#biv=i|394;d|OkxqS0KxawR4sM:
Showing Tim's left hand with no tattoos.

Also, according to all statements LE have released regarding Tim's remains have been called just that remains not ashes. It appears as though they two terms are being used interchangeably when I think they are two very different terms with different meanings.
https://www.google.ca/search?q=tim+...&biw=1024&bih=672#biv=i|394;d|OkxqS0KxawR4sM:
Even the alleged remark about additional findings the term remains was used, not ashes.
Sort of JMO but based on my findings.
 
Just went back to the missing person poster. TB was wearing work boots -steel toed perhaps that could have been used for quick identification.
 
I remember LE saying we have identified the remains of TB due to the totality of the evidence. He didn't say we have positively identified TB' remains due to DNA or dental testing, but again, by the totality of the evidence. IMO it seems they could not find DNA but looked at all the evidence and concluded it must be TB. Maybe I am wrong, but a good defense attorney could certainly poke holes with totality of the evidence if DNA has not proven it was TB. JMO
And what you and others continue to overlook for some unexplained reason is the rest of the statement which said the coroner's office was assisting, and a forensics team continued to work on the case. Where did you get the idea that DNA could not be found?

A Hamilton Police forensics van arrived shortly before noon. Kavanagh said assistance from the coroner’s office has been requested. Around 1 p.m., more police arrived on scene with an all-terrain vehicle
http://www.guelphmercury.com/news-story/3246435-bosma-found-dead-in-waterloo-region/
We are convinced by the totality of the evidence that these are the remains of Tim Bosma. The evidence indicates that the remains were burned. Forensic investigators from the Centre of Forensic Sciences are conducting their investigations.
http://www.therecord.com/sports-sto...tement-on-the-death-of-tim-bosma-of-ancaster/
With the Coroner’s office only having just gotten involved, there is no cause of death yet for Bosma. Police said that Bosma’s body was burned “beyond recognition” somewhere in the Waterloo area, but have not said where the actual murder took place or confirmed where the remains were found.
http://o.canada.com/2013/05/15/tim-bosmas-murder-everything-we-know-so-far/
 
Stop with the rumors. If you can't link it, then don't post it.
 
Just went back to the missing person poster. TB was wearing work boots -steel toed perhaps that could have been used for quick identification.

Yes thats true and a wedding ring or a watch. Would no doubt help once the remains had been tested.
 
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