The Life Insurance Policies on Dr. Sievers

[FelicityLemon]

Yes, either as contingent beneficiaries named on the policy or as beneficiaries of TS's estate.

<modsnip>

I was curious about that, too. Was it postmarked July 1? If so, he couldn't have take it at the time of the murder trip, but during the trip for TS' funeral. Either he stole it or MS gave it to him. Wonder what it contained? :thinking: Or did MS mail it to him with other things... wonder if we'll ever know.

 

[dmac55]

https://drive.google.com/file/d/0B3g3DEap84xwZXFUT0Z2ZVU0OXM/view
img12032015_0019.pdf - Google Drive
Page #4
Bates #3085

(re: Frank Ragonese/Pelican Wealth Advisors, LLC)
on July 17, 2015, MS sent letter to State Farm Insurance stating, "I give full authorization for the office of Pelican Wealth Advisors, LLC, namely Francis P. Ragonese..."
"...to assist me with the claims for my deceased wife, Teresa Sievers."


http://www.pelicanwealth.com/trio-j...ealth-wealth-llc-educational-seminar-company/
Pelican Wealth Advisors, LLC Trio Joins Forces to Create "Joyful Health & Wealth, LLC" Educational Seminar Company

Financial Expert, Frank Ragonese, Ph.D., of Pelican Wealth Advisors, Teresa Sievers, M.D. MSMS, FAARM and Master Life Coach Mary Lynn Ziemer announce the formation of Joyful Health & Wealth LLC.

Financial Expert, &#8220;Dr. Frank&#8221; will explain how you can apply &#8220;Holistic Wealth Management&#8221; to create financial freedom and a healthy and joyful lifestyle.


http://fortmyers.floridaweekly.com/..._forces_to_present_lifeplanning_seminars.html
Trio join forces to present life-planning seminars | March 12, 2014 | Florida Weekly

 

[DexterMorgan]

I think it's possible for him to have access to the insurance if he delegates his mother as their power of attorney or guardianship. Jmo. He is their father and he has not been arrested.

But I will appreciate if a lawyer can chime in on this. Does mark still have the right to designate guardianship or power of attorney of his kids while he is still a free man. Thanks in advance.

 

[DexterMorgan]

100% of spouses who kill their spouse for solely for the insurance money is usually done because said spouse wants to live a certain lifestyle and they feel that the other spouse is in the way.

So if your spouse love boats and high flying. But you try to keep it more simple while they are getting multiple life insurance policies for you.

Then watch out. Jmo. The signs are always there. But the will to totally investigate your spouse's possible dirty ambitions may not be there in your head.

So wake up now. Just in case. Jmo

 

[AZlawyer]

I think it's possible for him to have access to the insurance if he delegates his mother as their power of attorney or guardianship. Jmo. He is their father and he has not been arrested.

But I will appreciate if a lawyer can chime in on this. Does mark still have the right to designate guardianship or power of attorney of his kids while he is still a free man. Thanks in advance.

The insurance companies won't be releasing the proceeds until MS is charged or cleared. If he's cleared, he'll get the money himself, of course. If he's charged, the proceeds will go to the contingent beneficiary on the policy forms or, if none, to TS's estate.

Let's pretend the contingent beneficiary is a joint living trust set up for the benefit of the kids, with MS as the Trustee now that TS is dead. If MS is charged, though, he can't serve as trustee OR appoint another trustee. So the ins. companies will get the courts involved and the money will ultimately go to the kids. While they're underage, the money will be handled by someone the court trusts. Probably some relative of TS IMO. Or, possibly, the trust itself would say who is the replacement trustee. Often this is a bank, but it could be a relative.

What if MS appointed a new trustee (like his mom) BEFORE he gets charged? IMO the insurance companies will ignore any such appointment until he's charged or cleared, and if he's charged, they will proceed as above. IMO they will ignore any effort by MS to control the disbursement of the money unless it is court-approved. In a pinch they will deposit the money with the appropriate court and say "we wash our hands of this; you decide what to do." (It's called "interpleader.")

ETA: Didn't someone link a copy of TS's Will a while back? The Will might make reference to the existence of a Trust, although it probably wouldn't say anything about the life insurance beneficiaries.

 

[DexterMorgan]

The insurance companies won't be releasing the proceeds until MS is charged or cleared. If he's cleared, he'll get the money himself, of course. If he's charged, the proceeds will go to the contingent beneficiary on the policy forms or, if none, to TS's estate.

Let's pretend the contingent beneficiary is a joint living trust set up for the benefit of the kids, with MS as the Trustee now that TS is dead. If MS is charged, though, he can't serve as trustee OR appoint another trustee. So the ins. companies will get the courts involved and the money will ultimately go to the kids. While they're underage, the money will be handled by someone the court trusts. Probably some relative of TS IMO. Or, possibly, the trust itself would say who is the replacement trustee. Often this is a bank, but it could be a relative.

What if MS appointed a new trustee (like his mom) BEFORE he gets charged? IMO the insurance companies will ignore any such appointment until he's charged or cleared, and if he's charged, they will proceed as above. IMO they will ignore any effort by MS to control the disbursement of the money unless it is court-approved. In a pinch they will deposit the money with the appropriate court and say "we wash our hands of this; you decide what to do." (It's called "interpleader.")

ETA: Didn't someone link a copy of TS's Will a while back? The Will might make reference to the existence of a Trust, although it probably wouldn't say anything about the life insurance beneficiaries.

Thanks my friend for the clarity of the legal possibles regarding mark and the insurance.

Btw. I think Lilibet had posted Teresa's will which was made before she knew that mark would be the one to have her killed.

But also. Whitney Houstons will was very specific. Which left bobby nothing. So hopefully Teresa's will was very specific as well. Thanks

 

[south fishy]

I'm still stuck on MS getting so many life insurance policies on TS. My SO runs a busy State Farm office and writes all of the types of insurance they sell, including life. I halfway retorically just asked him would any trustworthy person take out multiple life policies on their spouse. He said 'sure'. I was taken aback so asked him to explain.

He said he sees about 25% of his clients who may take out a whole life policy for the far future (which with State Farm, can be increased in increments multiple times throughout the life of the policy), ie- funerals, monies to dependents, etc.

Then they will have an additional term life policy that is used more as short-term insurance against paying off a specific large debt, like a mortgage (and which can't be increased in value). Then, say, the couple buys a vacation home, they may purchase a 3rd term life policy for the amount of that mortgage, taken out on the main breadwinner.

I never knew.....

I also asked how hard it was to take out the policy without the person knowing. All companies are different, but he has actually worked with 2 of the companies MS used. State Farm requires the named policy holder to sign in person in the office (here TS). The other doesn't, but both require either a DNA cheek swab or a combo of blood and urine test of the named holder for underwriting before issuing. Didn't realize that either.... (For the health history).

I'm curious if ALL the companies MS used required this. Because if so, I wonder what he would have told TS to get past that.

SO also said that they have had at least one case he knows about where someone tried to turn in someone else's DNA swab/blood/urine for the health part when taking out the policy and was caught bc SF actually RAN A DNA TEST against the corpse (it was a suspicious death) before paying out. They really don't want to pay if they don't have to...

I also read him the list of policies found in the document dump. He said they all sound like term policies except the last one with the odd amount. He also said that for a person with TS's description, even the $1 mil or $2.5 mil policy wouldn't have cost more than $75-100 per month. Assuming it was for a shorter term (which of course it would be knowing what we know now...)

I just don't get how he was able to get them all without her knowledge. MAybe he just got State Farm and. Prudential, but not the others, with her blessing. Understanding the why's and wherefore's a bit better now she may not have been suspicious if it was a while back. Or maybe he shoved the pages into a stack of work papers needing her signatures...

 

[DexterMorgan]

I'm still stuck on MS getting so many life insurance policies on TS. My SO runs a busy State Farm office and writes all of the types of insurance they sell, including life. I halfway retorically just asked him would any trustworthy person take out multiple life policies on their spouse. He said 'sure'. I was taken aback so asked him to explain.

He said he sees about 25% of his clients who may take out a whole life policy for the far future (which with State Farm, can be increased in increments multiple times throughout the life of the policy), ie- funerals, monies to dependents, etc.

Then they will have an additional term life policy that is used more as short-term insurance against paying off a specific large debt, like a mortgage (and which can't be increased in value). Then, say, the couple buys a vacation home, they may purchase a 3rd term life policy for the amount of that mortgage, taken out on the main breadwinner.

I never knew.....

I also asked how hard it was to take out the policy without the person knowing. All companies are different, but he has actually worked with 2 of the companies MS used. State Farm requires the named policy holder to sign in person in the office (here TS). The other doesn't, but both require either a DNA cheek swab or a combo of blood and urine test of the named holder for underwriting before issuing. Didn't realize that either.... (For the health history).

I'm curious if ALL the companies MS used required this. Because if so, I wonder what he would have told TS to get past that.

SO also said that they have had at least one case he knows about where someone tried to turn in someone else's DNA swab/blood/urine for the health part when taking out the policy and was caught bc SF actually RAN A DNA TEST against the corpse (it was a suspicious death) before paying out. They really don't want to pay if they don't have to...

I also read him the list of policies found in the document dump. He said they all sound like term policies except the last one with the odd amount. He also said that for a person with TS's description, even the $1 mil or $2.5 mil policy wouldn't have cost more than $75-100 per month. Assuming it was for a shorter term (which of course it would be knowing what we know now...)

I just don't get how he was able to get them all without her knowledge. MAybe he just got State Farm and. Prudential, but not the others, with her blessing. Understanding the why's and wherefore's a bit better now she may not have been suspicious if it was a while back. Or maybe he shoved the pages into a stack of work papers needing her signatures...

To tell you the truth. Most insurance policies offer a personal insurance for any venture that will cost.

Via car loan or mortgage loan or business loan.

So once people get a million dollars insurance policy on you personally. Then WATCH OUT. JMO

 

[FightTheOstrich]

I'm still stuck on MS getting so many life insurance policies on TS. My SO runs a busy State Farm office and writes all of the types of insurance they sell, including life. I halfway retorically just asked him would any trustworthy person take out multiple life policies on their spouse. He said 'sure'. I was taken aback so asked him to explain.

He said he sees about 25% of his clients who may take out a whole life policy for the far future (which with State Farm, can be increased in increments multiple times throughout the life of the policy), ie- funerals, monies to dependents, etc.

Then they will have an additional term life policy that is used more as short-term insurance against paying off a specific large debt, like a mortgage (and which can't be increased in value). Then, say, the couple buys a vacation home, they may purchase a 3rd term life policy for the amount of that mortgage, taken out on the main breadwinner.

I never knew.....

I also asked how hard it was to take out the policy without the person knowing. All companies are different, but he has actually worked with 2 of the companies MS used. State Farm requires the named policy holder to sign in person in the office (here TS). The other doesn't, but both require either a DNA cheek swab or a combo of blood and urine test of the named holder for underwriting before issuing. Didn't realize that either.... (For the health history).

I'm curious if ALL the companies MS used required this. Because if so, I wonder what he would have told TS to get past that.

SO also said that they have had at least one case he knows about where someone tried to turn in someone else's DNA swab/blood/urine for the health part when taking out the policy and was caught bc SF actually RAN A DNA TEST against the corpse (it was a suspicious death) before paying out. They really don't want to pay if they don't have to...

I also read him the list of policies found in the document dump. He said they all sound like term policies except the last one with the odd amount. He also said that for a person with TS's description, even the $1 mil or $2.5 mil policy wouldn't have cost more than $75-100 per month. Assuming it was for a shorter term (which of course it would be knowing what we know now...)

I just don't get how he was able to get them all without her knowledge. MAybe he just got State Farm and. Prudential, but not the others, with her blessing. Understanding the why's and wherefore's a bit better now she may not have been suspicious if it was a while back. Or maybe he shoved the pages into a stack of work papers needing her signatures...

She may have known. MS is a slick master manipulator. I'm sure he could have come up with a hundred reasons off the top of his head for adding policies.

 

[south fishy]

To tell you the truth. Most insurance policies offer a personal insurance for any venture that will cost.

Via car loan or mortgage loan or business loan.

So once people get a million dollars insurance policy on you personally. Then WATCH OUT. JMO

Right but that would usually be for a much smaller amount, tied to the venture or tangable asset (or a small amount for funeral expenses) as I understand, right?

And I thought all of the policies MS took out were specifically life policies, which would trigger the health check, etc.

Of, course, I agree that I don't want anyone but ME taking out any life policies on ME no matter what the amount or circumstances...

 

[PeskySlueth]

I'm still stuck on MS getting so many life insurance policies on TS. My SO runs a busy State Farm office and writes all of the types of insurance they sell, including life. I halfway retorically just asked him would any trustworthy person take out multiple life policies on their spouse. He said 'sure'. I was taken aback so asked him to explain.

He said he sees about 25% of his clients who may take out a whole life policy for the far future (which with State Farm, can be increased in increments multiple times throughout the life of the policy), ie- funerals, monies to dependents, etc.

Then they will have an additional term life policy that is used more as short-term insurance against paying off a specific large debt, like a mortgage (and which can't be increased in value). Then, say, the couple buys a vacation home, they may purchase a 3rd term life policy for the amount of that mortgage, taken out on the main breadwinner.

I never knew.....

I also asked how hard it was to take out the policy without the person knowing. All companies are different, but he has actually worked with 2 of the companies MS used. State Farm requires the named policy holder to sign in person in the office (here TS). The other doesn't, but both require either a DNA cheek swab or a combo of blood and urine test of the named holder for underwriting before issuing. Didn't realize that either.... (For the health history).

I'm curious if ALL the companies MS used required this. Because if so, I wonder what he would have told TS to get past that.

SO also said that they have had at least one case he knows about where someone tried to turn in someone else's DNA swab/blood/urine for the health part when taking out the policy and was caught bc SF actually RAN A DNA TEST against the corpse (it was a suspicious death) before paying out. They really don't want to pay if they don't have to...

I also read him the list of policies found in the document dump. He said they all sound like term policies except the last one with the odd amount. He also said that for a person with TS's description, even the $1 mil or $2.5 mil policy wouldn't have cost more than $75-100 per month. Assuming it was for a shorter term (which of course it would be knowing what we know now...)

I just don't get how he was able to get them all without her knowledge. MAybe he just got State Farm and. Prudential, but not the others, with her blessing. Understanding the why's and wherefore's a bit better now she may not have been suspicious if it was a while back. Or maybe he shoved the pages into a stack of work papers needing her signatures...

could he have simply forged her name?

 

[flgrl017]

My husband has a 7 figure life insurance policy on him. He had to get a physical and that determined the rate.

 

[ATasteOfHoney]

To tell you the truth. Most insurance policies offer a personal insurance for any venture that will cost.

Via car loan or mortgage loan or business loan.

So once people get a million dollars insurance policy on you personally. Then WATCH OUT. JMO

The problem is that the insurance companies do not tell if someone has taken out a policy on you (which I think should be changed). If you have a relationship (I.e. Parent, spouse, sibling, etc) then you can usually take out a policy by providing some basic information & then you pay the premiums.

No alert goes out to inform anyone of the policy that's on your head. It's terribly sad because in essence, many then become targets to the criminally insane who view them worth more dead than alive.

Maybe legislature could pass called the TS Law --> no one can take out a policy on your life without your written & verbal consent AND copies of the policy with the payout amount & beneficiary must be mailed certified. Will it stop all murders for payout; probably not. But it would cut down on this sort of crime.

Moo

 

[RANCH]

I don't find the fact that the Sievires' had life insurance unusual. It becomes part of this case when coupled with the fact that they had financial problems and Teresa was found murdered.

Definite motive.

JMO

 

[ATasteOfHoney]

I don't find the fact that the Sievires' had life insurance unusual. It becomes part of this case when coupled with the fact that they had financial problems and Teresa was found murdered.

Definite motive.

JMO

That many different policies & almost $5 Million dollars should she die is unusual.
Sorry Ranch....it is.

 

[FelicityLemon]

It doesn't sound like it Pesky- which makes sense. It shouldn't be that easy to take out life insurance on someone other than yourself.

Signatures in person or bodily fluids (lol)!

Seriously, it would be like playing the lottery! Take out life insurance on random people betting they'll die before you spend a fortune on premiums. I imagine a big old blackboard (or spreadsheet if you like) toting up all premiums, names, ins. companies...

A few years back, there were two senior ladies who took out life insurance policies on homeless men. A cottage industry for their retirement? They killed at least two of them.

 

[RANCH]

That many different policies & almost $5 Million dollars should she die is unusual.
Sorry Ranch....it is.

I haven't had time to look at the discovery. Was the life insurance only on Teresa? None for Mark?

 

[ATasteOfHoney]

I haven't had time to look at the discovery. Was the life insurance only on Teresa? None for Mark?

Don't know but it doesn't matter, she's dead & he becomes "supposedly" $5 Million richer. Looking for "fairness" or equitability with a psychopath is mute.

 

[observation]

I haven't had time to look at the discovery. Was the life insurance only on Teresa? None for Mark?

Four policies in total I believe on TS. It was mentioned MS had one- he is not worth the monthly premium after what he's done here.


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

 

[atthelake]

Seriously, it would be like playing the lottery! Take out life insurance on random people betting they'll die before you spend a fortune on premiums. I imagine a big old blackboard (or spreadsheet if you like) toting up all premiums, names, ins. companies...

A few years back, there were two senior ladies who took out life insurance policies on homeless men. A cottage industry for their retirement? They killed at least two of them.

Ummm ...some indeed say many investments are like the lottery..

Yet viatical investments are available through your local financial planner.